The Details of the Super Saiyan Forms

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I've seen many websites spread crap about what they think to be the requirements/details of the different Super Saiyan forms. This thread is to let everyone state their own opinion about what are distinct details, and what aren't. First off, I don't thing the electricity surge around the body is a distinct detail of Super Saiyan 2 and 3. I think thats just a naturally occurring effect when generating enough power, which was only during the SS2 and SS3 forms. I think that if strong enough, the same electrical effects would take place when a Super Saiyan, if they were strong enough in that form. It's similar to the aura. Characters from DragonBall did not posses such auras. Because they were incapable of generating the require power, just like how no one was able to generate the electricity as a Super Saiyan, because they were not strong enough in that form. Also the thing about facial features sharpening when transforming. I think that's just them showing off, looking bad a$$ because of how much energy they are putting out.


That's just to start off. I'm sure there are more details people can think of when the saiyans transform.
 
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Gravitational effector
One theory behind the "power level" of a character is that their power level is their gravitational effector. As a character gains more power, they are able to manipulate gravity at a greater effect (thus why powering up causes for the land to split and break, and causes things outside of the gravitational field to levitate as they are effectively pulled up, and attempt to orbit the field). This doesn't relate to the electric emanation descriptor, but it's something worth pointing out.

Moving On:
I don't think there's any overt requirements of becoming a Super Saiyajin. Save, maybe, that the user needs to surpass their "normal" limitations as a Saiyajin. I use Gokou as the example... He went from 4500 to 9000 after fighting Vegita, but Vegita told him 4500 was probably his maximum potential, 12,000 at the most -- Vegita also believed that 24,000 was his own maximum potential (he was shy of this by 6,000), but after healing his power became 25,000 (above what he expected).

But through accelerated gravity training, Gokou surpassed this limitation even further, and attained 120,000 (180,000 when using the Kaiouken level 1). After healing from the battle with Ginyu he grew to 300,000 (12,000,000 when using Kaiouken level 20), and then he went Super Saiyajin. This is when the power rating system gets out of control methinks, is when you factor in transformations. From 300,000 to 15,000,000 in Super Saiyajin... That's quite the jump.

And I think this is where Toriyama tried to add in the different power system featured in Babidi's ship in the Buu series, to try and take control of things again. Either way, he decided to call it quits. Kid Buu was the limits of power he was willing to go to, and he wasn't going to create anything stronger. As it was, he was able to rip apart the fabric of the universe with his power alone (possibly a case of Toriyama lashing out at editors asking for more power).

As for purity:
I think this is the lamest, lamest, lamest theory. "You have to be pure of heart." Yes, of course... Because that's purity coursing through the adrenal veins of a Super Saiyajin...
 
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Well stated and theories that made perfect sense. The part about purity was especially well stated :laff: .

What intrigues me is the "Gravitational effector" you described. It makes quite a bit of sense. However I'm not sure I believe this to be the case exactly. Since their power is also known as "Ki", and ki us also believed to exist in all areas of creation, I think that when they are generating that much ki, it causes a type of magnet effect (sounds odd I know, bear with me) that pulls ki up from the earth, causing debris to float and the land to split. Also, when they generate that much energy, it strong vibrations all around, causing earthquakes.

And now that you got me onto the topic of power levels, I just want to say that any power level after the Frieza saga is not an official fact. Akira Toriyama stopped after the Frieza saga with power levels because the numbers were just getting to high. And yea he did show something similar to the graphing of power levels. Babidi had a little scanner thing that measured power in "Kilis", which had much more reduced numbers than power levels. (Goku as a Super Saiyan when he fought Yakon generated 3000 kilis if I remember correctly.)
 
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And now that you got me onto the topic of power levels, I just want to say that any power level after the Frieza saga is not an official fact. Akira Toriyama stopped after the Frieza saga with power levels because the numbers were just getting to high. And yea he did show something similar to the graphing of power levels. Babidi had a little scanner thing that measured power in "Kilis", which had much more reduced numbers than power levels. (Goku as a Super Saiyan when he fought Yakon generated 3000 kilis if I remember correctly.)
Yep, which is why I didn't quote any powerlevels after the Freeza saga. :D
 
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Other than Cell, I don't remember many other enemies generating an electric field during a fight. Sure, you could get strong as a Super Saiyan, but your energy wouldn't be compact enough. SS2 and SS3 have to super-concentrate energy into a smaller space, and so there is a normal aura, but the simple amount of energetic particles in the air so close to each other floating around spark that electric field.

Yeah, honestly I don't know where people get the quirky little descrptions where the face is sharper or crap like that. I'd like to see a single image that proves their main body undergoes such a change. Same thing with how they say SS2 eyes are narrower. Well probably because they're under stress from the higher energy, and the ferocious emotional nature of the transformation, and therefore, they glare. I'm sure you can raise your eyebrows as a SS2 just like anyone else can. I mean, you're telling me that they suddenly become incapable of controlling their eyebrow when they have the strength to rip a phonebook in half with their eyelid?
 
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Wrll purity is only mentioned with the Spirit Bomb. For SSJ you need plain old blind rage. SSJ2 and 3 are mearly a bigger level of controll of that rage.

The powerlevel needed to transform is kinda false. Basicly the first time Goku fell into blind rage was when he saw how cruel Frieza was when he kiled Krillin. It was the fact that he saw how Frieza intentionaly attacked the weak first that fueld his rage enabling him to transform.

Thats also the reason why there are so little SSJs in the saiyan race. Their nature is pride. They are to proud to submit to rage. Vegeta only managed to transform when he found out he cant catch Goku in the terms of Power. Thats what fuled his rage. His own powerlesness against Goku.

Gohan had his fuled with the thought of his friends and family beeing killed. Like Goku told him to imagine that Frieza killed everyone.

Trunks could Transfomr only after loosing his best friend to the androide. The only 2 people who are out of koncept were Kid Trunks and Goten.

Even in the GT movie Goku Jr. was enraged by seeing that bair getting hurt.
 
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I mean, you're telling me that they suddenly become incapable of controlling their eyebrow when they have the strength to rip a phonebook in half with their eyelid?
What is with everyone and phone book ripping anecdotes...?

Regarding the purity theory...
Keep in mind, I'm not here to argue over these theories. I didn't create any of them, they are derived from other sources. Well, except my opinion on the purity theory that people so love to vaunt.

But the theory I've seen in numerous variations is as follows:
To become a super saiyajin, a saiyajin must have a pure heart. Which is why it was possible for Gokou to go super saiyajin. However, as can be seen, those with a heart of pure evil (such as Bejita) can also go super saiyajin.

Like I said though, I think this one's pretty lame. Then again, I don't like getting into discussion over good and evil; they're conceptual perception of opinionated beliefs. You see evil, someone else sees good, another sees neutrality. How about we all see the vorpal bunny, and be happy with that? :D

Unofficial evolution/ascension level multipliers
This is based on speculation (you know that), and opinion. There's no point in getting distraught over any numbers quoted here, just speak your peace in a civil manner. Anyway, here are the numbers I tend to think of...

(These denote alternate names, or characters)

Saiyajin (Gokou, Gohan, Bejita, Trunks, Goten, Trunks)
Factor 010 - Oozaru
Factor 050 - Super Saiyajin (SSJ)
Factor 075 - Ultra Super Saiyajin (USSJ)*
Factor 075 - Ascended Super Saiyajin (SSJ2)*
Factor 100 - Full Power Super Saiyajin
* - The Ultra Super Saiyajin possesses the power of the Ascended Super Saiyajin, but the speed is only half of the character's speed, making its usefulness limited.

Shapeshifters (also called Icers; Freeza, Cooler, Cold)
Factor 015 - Brute (Form 2)
Factor 030 - Feral (Form 3)
Factor 060 - Warrior (Form 4)*
Factor 075 - Warrior, Max Power (Form 4 100%)*
Factor 100 - Armored Warrior (Form 5)
* - The max power form 4 is possibly just form 4, but after channeling ki, much like Nappa and Gokou do during the Saiyajin saga. In maximum power, the speed does not increaase.

Biological Weapon (Cell)
Factor 015 - Hornet Warrior*
Factor 030 - Incomplete (Semi-Perfect)**
Factor 060 - Complete (Perfect)**
* - I consider the first humanoid stage of Cell to be the hornet warrior; for he has evolved from the larvae.
** - Perfect and complete are the same word; Perfect is a derivative of the latin perfectus which means to complete, or to be complete.

Android/Cyborg (Android #13, Android #17)
Factor 065 - Super Form

Kaiou Shin (Kaiou-Sama)
Factor 1.5 - Kaiouken (can be taught to others)
Factor 002 - Kaiouken Two
Factor 003 - Kaiouken Three
(all the way up to...)
Factor 020 - Kaiouken Twenty

Demon (Janimba)
Factor 080 - Oni

Djinni (Buu)
I'm not even going to try and speculate...

Nameccian (Piccolo)
Factor 010 - Unlock Potential (can only be done by a dragon caste nameccian (The Elder, Kami, Piccolo, Dende); can only be used on another being; can only be unleashed once)
Factor 020 - Fusion (Super Nameccian)

Hrmm.. Can't think of any characters other than this.

EDIT NOTE: Wiki is using the same theory I described in theory 2. See this link. By an odd coincidence, they use the same terms I use, but for describing only the first type of Super Saiyajin.
 

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I've seen many websites spread crap about what they think to be the requirements/details of the different Super Saiyan forms. This thread is to let everyone state their own opinion about what are distinct details, and what aren't. First off, I don't thing the electricity surge around the body is a distinct detail of Super Saiyan 2 and 3. I think thats just a naturally occurring effect when generating enough power, which was only during the SS2 and SS3 forms. I think that if strong enough, the same electrical effects would take place when a Super Saiyan, if they were strong enough in that form. It's similar to the aura. Characters from DragonBall did not posses such auras. Because they were incapable of generating the require power, just like how no one was able to generate the electricity as a Super Saiyan, because they were not strong enough in that form. Also the thing about facial features sharpening when transforming. I think that's just them showing off, looking bad a$$ because of how much energy they are putting out.


That's just to start off. I'm sure there are more details people can think of when the saiyans transform.
The electricity the surges around a Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 is a distinct detail of those forms. The electricity surge does show up even with non-Super Saiyan's, but the Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 electricity surges are constant, rather than a flicker here, and a flicker there. It's more apparent in the manga than the show.

A Saiyan's facial features does sharpen, usually due to them being brought closer to their Saiyan instincts. Gohan was made apparent of this when he transformed into a Super Saiyan 2.
 
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By the Buu saga, any saiyan at base form> piccolo.

Because of the fact that Dabura picked the most POWERFUL of them.
he let Kaoishin live so Babidi could kill him.

My theory for Trunks and Goten being able to transform into SSJ is because by the time they were born, or when they had sex ;p. Both Saiyans were SSJ at the time.

Here's all the SSJ transformations i know :D

in weakest to strongest

Gigi SSJ=SSJ 0.5[non-canon]
SSJ=level 1
USSJ=SSJ pumping all the energy to become stronger
USSJ2=pumping more energy, but decrease in speed.
FPSSJ=Mastered SSJ, no stress, stronger than below forms
SSJ2=Second Grade SSJ, stronger then below forms
SSJ3=Third grade, massive stress and ki drain
Mystic[Gohan]=Ultimate form
 
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The electricity the surges around a Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 is a distinct detail of those forms. The electricity surge does show up even with non-Super Saiyan's, but the Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 electricity surges are constant, rather than a flicker here, and a flicker there. It's more apparent in the manga than the show.

A Saiyan's facial features does sharpen, usually due to them being brought closer to their Saiyan instincts. Gohan was made apparent of this when he transformed into a Super Saiyan 2.

The reason it's constant with a Super Saiyan 2 and 3 and not level 1 is because they are generating a lot more power. If a regular Super Saiyan were to generate as much power as a Super Saiyan 2, he would also have the same electrical effects. Gohan after his hidden power was awakened by the Old Kai had massive lighting effects. But he wasn't even a Super Saiyan. And don't start telling me that it was because he was in his Mystic Form. Mystic is as real as a form as Ultimate Super Saiyan or Full power Super Saiyan is. They are not real forms, so much as shortcut words used to describe certain levels of power. Aas for the facial features, they sharpen for a more bad a$$ effect. Rather than trying to deduce this with logic, let's look at what is the real cause of the facial features sharpening. Akira Toriyama. That's the cause. Every time a saiyan transforms into a new level, or is incredibly powerful, he wanted to make them look as awesome as possible. And sharpened facial expressions make them look cooler.

Since some others have already, here's my opinion on the strength of the different forms:

Kaioken2: X2
Kaioken3: X3 (etc. etc.)
Oozaru: X10
Super Saiyan: X50
Ultimate Super Saiyan (Or as I prefer to call it, Incorrectly Ascended Super Saiyan): X80+Super slow speed
Ascended Super Saiyan: X100
Super Saiyan 3: X200 (Devastating effects on the body)
Even though I hate this form, Super Saiyan 4: X500

Although in my opinion, I don't really see Super Saiyan 4 as exactly a Super Saiyan. More of... and Ultimate Normal or something. Because Goku has held the Super Saiyan 4 form for a few minutes while unconscious, but you never see anyone unconscious as a Super Saiyan 1, 2 or 3.
 

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The reason it's constant with a Super Saiyan 2 and 3 and not level 1 is because they are generating a lot more power. If a regular Super Saiyan were to generate as much power as a Super Saiyan 2, he would also have the same electrical effects. Gohan after his hidden power was awakened by the Old Kai had massive lighting effects. But he wasn't even a Super Saiyan. And don't start telling me that it was because he was in his Mystic Form. Mystic is as real as a form as Ultimate Super Saiyan or Full power Super Saiyan is. They are not real forms, so much as shortcut words used to describe certain levels of power. Aas for the facial features, they sharpen for a more bad a$$ effect. Rather than trying to deduce this with logic, let's look at what is the real cause of the facial features sharpening. Akira Toriyama. That's the cause. Every time a saiyan transforms into a new level, or is incredibly powerful, he wanted to make them look as awesome as possible. And sharpened facial expressions make them look cooler.
A SSJ wouldn't be able to generate as much power as a SSJ2 since the SSJ forms multiply the power, thus the SSJ form will never be able to generate the same amount power as the SSJ2 form. My theory is that the SSJ forms intensify a Saiyan's energy rather than increase it, which to me makes perfect sense. So the intensity of a SSJ's energy is less than the intensity of a SSJ2's energy.

Gohan didn't generate any lightning when his aura was visible, only when he first received the unlock by Elder Kai.

There was evidence to suggest that SSJ4 is the true SSJ form.
 
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A SSJ wouldn't be able to generate as much power as a SSJ2 since the SSJ forms multiply the power, thus the SSJ form will never be able to generate the same amount power as the SSJ2 form. My theory is that the SSJ forms intensify a Saiyan's energy rather than increase it, which to me makes perfect sense. So the intensity of a SSJ's energy is less than the intensity of a SSJ2's energy.

Gohan didn't generate any lightning when his aura was visible, only when he first received the unlock by Elder Kai.

There was evidence to suggest that SSJ4 is the true SSJ form.
didn't vegeta have that flashback of the last ssj? and it was an oozaru? so i guess it does hint that ssj4 maybe the true ssj :O
 
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As far as I remember Vegeta was also explaining that Saiyans transform to Ozaru at the same time. So who knows :s
 
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As far as I remember Vegeta was also explaining that Saiyans transform to Ozaru at the same time. So who knows :s
Only the Saiyajin who see the moon. Without the moon, a Saiyajin doesn't become Oozaru.
 
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I'm still waiting for photographic evidence of these so-called "sharpened features", because it really sounds like people pulled that one out of their @$$...
 
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I'm still waiting for photographic evidence of these so-called "sharpened features", because it really sounds like people pulled that one out of their @$$...
Could be, bear with me here, that noone cares if you question their opinion? Yep, I said it.

Seriously, that's like the people who go off on how the different Super Saiyajin forms have specific shades of green to their eyes.

No matter what photographic "evidence" anyone provides, you're going to refute it. The idea is to discuss your theories, not try and start a fight over a quirky idea people have.
 
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Could be, bear with me here, that noone cares if you question their opinion? Yep, I said it.

Seriously, that's like the people who go off on how the different Super Saiyajin forms have specific shades of green to their eyes.

No matter what photographic "evidence" anyone provides, you're going to refute it. The idea is to discuss your theories, not try and start a fight over a quirky idea people have.
Blah blah blah, pass me the local section...
 
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how about giji stage ??!!! :p i see you like those domains .
I'm not even sure what to comment on the "giji" stage... But then, I wasn't too thrilled with Gohan's "hidden powers" either.

Giji seems more like a power emanation (kind of like Gohan's crappy powers), than an actual transformation. Doesn't he technically lose consciousness while in this "form?"
 

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didn't vegeta have that flashback of the last ssj? and it was an oozaru? so i guess it does hint that ssj4 maybe the true ssj :O
Yep, that's basically the only solid evidence there was. Vegeta explains that the last SSJ had to transform into the Oozaru state in order to control his power. Unfortunately, the Saiyan couldn't control the Oozaru state, so he went on a rampage and destroyed the planet he was on.

This is the Oozaru you see while Vegeta was explaining the last SSJ:







 

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