Take THAT Music Industry!

[betterman]

I mean the way i see it is, the music industry and such are making such a bigger deal then it realy is, AT THE MOMENT.

Most of the people who download music are people who use computers regulerly and know what a p2p system is, which isn't a big chuck out of the united states yet. There are still tons and tons of people who buy music, and plenty of it, my friend for example has a collection of like 150 cds(thats alot of money). But what there doing now trying to make it illigal to burn or rip the music, is just gonna make those buyers go and download it. This is all about greed, they see that SOME people are ripping and burning the music and the greedy bastards don't want to lose that money, so instead of makeing that 15 dollars of one cd and the guy burns it and gives it too a friend, there are gonna make nothing becuase they decided to be greedy.....I can think of a hundred old sayings for that right about now. Thats all it comes down too. I respect all musicians of any genre, even if i don't like it(god i hate rap). I respect you guys making your bands and making GOOD music, and i hope you get somewhere with it. Ive never downloaded music, i usually just get it from friends with HUGE collections of music or over aim from some friend over the world. But seriosly, they got downloading banned, now they want to take it a step further and realy, there messing themselfs up.

 

[Devion]

Long live holland.
Downloading music is legal here \o/.(You just cant share it )
I buy CDs I like.(Not recently though )

Some albums, there like 3 good songs and 10 I dont like.
Not gonna waste 15 euros on that, I mean THATS thievery.
I know Half-Unit is gonna disagree, try your best, I mean its ignorant thinking you are helping the artist by buying their CDs.(Except for small bands, who make their own CDs)

It's better then to visit a concert of theirs. >_>

Also sometimes you see articles of "music industry lost 300 million due buning/downloading CDs".
That's such BS, who say the guy who downloaded a CD would buy it anyway, maybe he is just curious and wants to see if he likes the songs of that CD.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

Actually, buying their CDs is the best thing you can do to help any artist. If you read what I wrote about the way the industry works, bands fail if they do not at least break even, and the main method the labels recoup their money is by album sales.

 

[Devion]

Actually, buying their CDs is the best thing you can do to help any artist. If you read what I wrote about the way the industry works, bands fail if they do not at least break even, and the main method the labels recoup their money is by album sales.

True, as in they first need to repay their advance, but when a CD launch a band ussually also gives concerts.(So you could do either)

And after advance is repayed as you stated yourself, they only get 10% of cd sales.

But back to my point, I'm not gonna pay 15 euro to buy a CD of which I dont know even if I like all the songs.

15 euro is a bit too much to experiment with.

 

[Half-Unit]

I thought I wouldn't see the day when somebody who actually knows something would show up in this thread (refering, of course, to SaiyanPrideXIX). There is a God.

You made assumptions about me, all of which are false. The only correct assumption you made, is that I just don't care.

My assumption is that you know who you're hurting and don't care. That's selfish, doing something for yourself with a complete disregard for others. If you cared about who you ripped off you wouldn't download. There's no "Robin Hood" or "hooker with a heart of gold" in the realm of downloading music without purchasing the album.

And that 10% of business down the toilet stat is just crap. Because that stat generalizes for the whole music industry.

It's more like a 1/4 of a percent here, 1/10 of a percent there. It's not like every single artist is losing out on 4 bazillion dollars

Four BILLION dollars of a 40 billion dollar industry isn't a big deal? And how do you figure it's a just 'like 1/4% per company'? Lets say you have ten lemonade stands. Each of those ten lemonade stands has a capacity for ten cups of lemonade, so that's a hundred cups of lemonade when you add up all the stands (you with me so far?). Now, some punk kids come along and steal a cup from EACH stand. Assuming you sell all your remaining cups, the damage you suffer per stand is 10% (9 of 10 cups sold = 10%) and the damage you suffer as a whole is 10% (90 of 100 cups sold = 10%). Now obviously all record labels don't have an equal amount of money and aren't all controlled by one man, but the point is that it's NOT just "a little bit per company". Some companies will lose more, some will lose less.

As for you Half Unit, i dont like you. At all. The musicians need to sort themselves out, this RIAA **** cant touch me, they dont make the records, the musicians do. The bands/musicians, want money and respect and to try and be known. The only thing affecting them with downloading mp3s and what not is their loss of money.

Awww, wou don't wike me? What a shame . But really, I don't have anything against you, just your warped point of view.

So are you saying it's the musicians fault you steal their music because they're not suing your ass off? Interesting. All the 's on this board couldn't accurately describe the absurdness of that argument.

The economy? What about the economy of LEDCs? If youre going to say stuff like that, the economy decreasing in the USA by P2P networks, will be incredibly miniscule right? So why are you bringing the economy into this . If anything, the economy booms. More mp3 availability = more money for Apple, Creative, Sony and all other makers of MP3 players. So i reckon the money factor stays the same, just the Recording Studios, the multimedia shops and of course the artists miss out, not in publicity, but in money making :/

The economy isn't all it could be. You could make the argument that it's growing, but you're STILL hurting it by not allowing it to grow more. MP3 players will still sell without illegal downloading, so long as you can rip CD's (which is perfectly fine, if you own the CD. I'd LOVE to see the RIAA attempt to outlaw Xbox. messing with music lovers is one thing but messing with hardcore gamers is suicide).


To everyone who says P2P helps the small band doesn't have or know anyone in a small band. If you want to be recognized you have to play every little gig you can get your hands on. And if you really must be recognized over the Internet, go here http://www.garageband.com . There you can see who likes your music, who doesn't, and why. That's a lot better than throwing it on a P2P server and hoping someone downloads it.

Some albums, there like 3 good songs and 10 I dont like.
Not gonna waste 15 euros on that, I mean THATS thievery.
I know Half-Unit is gonna disagree, try your best, I mean its ignorant thinking you are helping the artist by buying their CDs.(Except for small bands, who make their own CDs)

Yeah... I'd be really dumb of me to think buying someone's product vs. stealing it would help him make money. How ignorant of me :S

 

[Devion]

Yeah... I'd be really dumb of me to think buying someone's product vs. stealing it would help him make money. How ignorant of me :S

Ooh yeah wasting 15 euro on 3 good songs, yeah thats worth it.

Wait what does a cd copy cost to burn on? 1 euro or less?

Yeah its worth the 15 euros.....

And 10% goes to the actual guy who produces it?

And wait, the guys of record company are already millionairs?

Sure I will fund their bank account, for them(of who dont do ****) to buy even more porsches and ferraris!

Or maybe they could just lower the price. :S

 

[Ravendust]

Speaking as someone with a lot of direct education on this subject, I'd just like to point out that, if you think the artist ever had the power in the music industry, you are very much 110% mistaken. BIG POST :O!!!

While I appreciate that you took the time to write that, I was referring to the fact the artists don't have any power in the music industry, not the fact that that the RIAA necessarily have more

I'm pretty much torn over the CD/mp3 dilemma. Personally I don't see why CD's still exist;

CD's:

Advantages: Cover Art
Disadvantages: Production costs, requires more materials, takes up more physical space, requires larger workforce, distribution and shipping costs, limited functionality. Overpriced. If the CD breaks, you lose all the music.

mp3's:

Advantages: Cheap, can be played on mp3 players and PC's, no production or distribution costs, takes up no physical space, no materials necessary. Possible to backup.
Disadvantages: More impersonal (lack of lyrics sheets, cover art, messages from the artist etc).

When it comes down to it, mp3's will always win over. I suppose that's another reason I download instead of buying. If I buy the CD I have to get up, put on pants, go down to the shops, buy the overpriced disc in it's plastic case, come home, rip the CD and then put it in storage. With mp3's that can all be done in a hundredth of the time with less effort and less price, and if it's an illegit download, no price at all.

Half-Unit - I was hoping there would be someone like you on the thread. While I don't completely agree with what you're saying, I admire the courage you have to stand up and say it. Thanks for not running away when outnumbered 20-1 :]

 

[Majin_You]

When it comes down to it, mp3's will always win over. I suppose that's another reason I download instead of buying. If I buy the CD I have to get up, put on pants, go down to the shops, buy the overpriced disc in it's plastic case, come home, rip the CD and then put it in storage. With mp3's that can all be done in a hundredth of the time with less effort and less price, and if it's an illegit download, no price at all.

Well, if people are that concerned about illegitimacy, there are always sites where you can buy tracks (which are incredibly cheap) as mp3's, such that you get only the songs you want rather than going and spending $20 on a CD that contains tracks you don't want. There are ways to obtain things conveniently without it being theft.

It isn't as though there is no way to get around CD's that isn't stealing - sites like iTunes have been around for a while, now, and really aren't very expensive. People simply don't want to spend money on music at this point.

Personally, I do download music, but it's generally the kind that I have trouble finding locally (specific renditions of a classical piece, some tracks from some video games, and so forth). I don't tend to download much in the way of mainstream music because it is so readily available in a form that isn't theft. That's me, though. Illegitimacy and I seldom mingle.

 

[Ravendust]

Don't get me wrong, I do download legit sometimes, even though the UK seems to have the highest comparative download prices.

I don't know how responsible people are though. When it comes down to it, if the track is available online for £1, or free, people are always going to take the free option. It's logical.

 

[Majin_You]

Don't get me wrong, I do download legit sometimes, even though the UK seems to have the highest comparative download prices.

I don't know how responsible people are though. When it comes down to it, if the track is available online for £1, or free, people are always going to take the free option. It's logical.

I couldn't agree more. What sweetens the free option more is that there is little to do that will get you "caught", so to speak. People will always gravitate towards that as long as they know that they won't get caught. If a medium like the internet were as closely monitored as something like, oh, a music store, for instance, there'd likely be less people stealing music.

Again, I wholeheartedly agree that people will always take the cheapest option if it, indeed, results in the same conclusion as a more costly approach. This, however, doesn't make it any more right. Indeed, for now, there is little to stop this.

Again, I seldom stray from legitimacy. People who've been on this forum for a good length of time know how often I turn down illegitimate stuff. Forgive me if my viewpoint differs. Though I do not befault people for downloading music, I still believe it's just as wrong as swiping a CD from a store. The difference? You're less likely to be caught...for now.

 

[Jesus]

just want to put a little perspective on things...

people who are *****ing about bigwigs in the record labels being millionaires.


did anyone read the financial times lately? the Executive Director of Tesco Stores LTD. got a £5,000,000 bonus this year, he got a £3,000,000 bonus last year. that was because of how much profit the company made. (£2.8 billion). now, does that mean its right to go and steal from a super market? cos hay, if you do the math... you would need to work for 40 years, to earn what he earns in 1 month

 

[Ravendust]

Yeah, I agree, that's stupid.

Tesco outperforming Sainsburys, has the world gone MAD?!

Majin_You, that's a very respectable viewpoint.

 

[Devion]

just want to put a little perspective on things...

people who are *****ing about bigwigs in the record labels being millionaires.


did anyone read the financial times lately? the Executive Director of Tesco Stores LTD. got a £5,000,000 bonus this year, he got a £3,000,000 bonus last year. that was because of how much profit the company made. (£2.8 billion). now, does that mean its right to go and steal from a super market? cos hay, if you do the math... you would need to work for 40 years, to earn what he earns in 1 month

You have no idea what you are talking about eh?

Tesco is a WHOLE lot bigger then record company, also that 2,8 billion isnt their total profit, much of it goes to investing, advertising, rebranding of products, opening new supermarkets.

Also they dont charge rediculous prices for their products.

Now I advise, look further then your own nose.

(And if you dont like Tesco you can go to another supermarket, with music, you cant)

About the loan of the director, yes its retarded, but its more justified then you think, they actually do something for their money.

 

[Jesus]

nono devion, i worked there, and screwed the manager on the desk with the profit reports...

last years total profit AFTER expenses such as you mentioned (hay, thats why its called profit?) was £2.8 billion

and my point wasnt to say hay look at tesco, it was to say, if your gonna steal from music companies, why not steal from tesco too? they make much more money (did you know the average profit margin on their products is around 40%?).

 

[Devion]

nono devion, i worked there, and screwed the manager on the desk with the profit reports...

last years total profit AFTER expenses such as you mentioned (hay, thats why its called profit?) was £2.8 billion

and my point wasnt to say hay look at tesco, it was to say, if your gonna steal from music companies, why not steal from tesco too? they make much more money (did you know the average profit margin on their products is around 40%?).

Of music is much higher since the only thing they do is burn cds, they dont really pay artist to make cds.

But the 2,8 billion is profit yes, but you have to spend it again in new investments and advertising , believe me, I study (sort of bussiness)economy.

40% is pretty high, but it isnt that high as profit they are making on a music cd.

 

[Jesus]

exactly

 

[Half-Unit]

Ooh yeah wasting 15 euro on 3 good songs, yeah thats worth it.

Wait what does a cd copy cost to burn on? 1 euro or less?

Yeah its worth the 15 euros.....

And 10% goes to the actual guy who produces it?

And wait, the guys of record company are already millionairs?

Sure I will fund their bank account, for them(of who dont do ****) to buy even more porsches and ferraris!

Or maybe they could just lower the price. :S

You're not paying for a piece of plastic with a lyric book and a case, you're paying for songs and the work that was put into making those songs. Just because someone's rich doesn't give you the right to steal from them. Is jealousy the issue here? Are you envious that the record label has more money than you? And where do you get off saying "they" don't do anything? They're the ones with millions of dollars, not you. Obviously, "they" did SOMETHING. Look at you. You must not do very much if you can't afford 15 euros. Of course, you really don't have to pay 15 euros. Like Majin_You said, their are plenty of sites where you could buy single songs legitimately. I think the problem isn't the price of the CD, it's just that you simply don't want to pay.

Ravendust, I appreciate the half complement. I'm from DMZ forums, so backing down just isn't something I do. What don't you agree with? Not that I really want to argue about it, but I think my point of view has been lost in a sea of ignorance. I don't have anything against MP3's or ripping a CD, just the illegal downloading of MP3's and the people who're ignorant about it (like thinking your actions are only hurting one super rich dude that "probably deserves it").

Anyway, I agree. MP3's are a LOT better than CD's. It's a wonder they aren't already the new standard, not just for the obvious lower productions and distribution costs, but the fact that you can get a better sound quality from a MP3. CD's are digital, therefore it has limits to its quality. MP3's are also digital, but have a greater range than a CD. The only REAL problem I find is that those under the age of 18 would have difficulty buying music online without a credit card or a parent breathing down their neck.

You and I pretty much have the same exact views, Majin_You. The only real difference is that I have a more critical view towards the people that download. I mean, it's quite obvious why they do it... free and convenient or $15 and a trip to the store? Which do you think is gonna win? But regardless, it doesn't justify the act.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Half-Unit. Are you going to start being critical of people who photocopy copyrighted documents too? Say I'm doing a project, and only need the info from 5 pages of a 250 page book. Is that any different than wanting 1 song off a 15 song CD? So I photocopy my 5 pages. Am I now a bad person because I just deprived the author of a book sale? Should they start policing Kinkos?

 

[Jesus]

most places that i go when i need photocopies such as the ones you speak of (the libraries round here) charge per page, and that money goes to some sort of royalties thing...

but since your up for that kinda discussion opti, why is it more right for you to steal music, than it is for you to steal food? if anything, you actually need food more. yet your more willing to pay for it... why?

 

[Half-Unit]

No, I wouldn't because those are two completely different things.

Let's modify you're metaphor, shall we? Instead of the whole album representing a book, how about each song represents one book. Taking a 30 second clip from a song or a part of the lyrics is fine, and would be like photocopying a few pages of a copyrighted document. Stealing the entire song would be like you stealing the book.

But then again, your whole argument is invalid because their's a giant building called a library where you can legally pick up just about any book for free (and the thing that Mad_AxMan said).