ScrewAttack: Goku vs Superman

[Renyori]

Or Superman punches Goku once and he dies. Remember who's much faster, and has reaction speeds to consistently fight at lightspeeds. Also keep in mind that Goku, needs to lock onto a ki signature as well before he warps there. So no, there's no chance hes doing that on Superman.

 

[Eon]

it is obvious who would win in this fight. goku grabs hold of superman, instant transmissions to a system with a red planet, breaks superman's neck with his pinky

you guys forget, goku's powers cant b taken away from him and have no restriction or limits as to how he can use it .... superman on the other hand, pwnt

Superman is unlike any villain that Goku has faced before, in that he doens't monologue and tell him his weakness and stuff. No one really knows anything about Kryptonians because there are so few. Goku would also need a Ki source to focus on, since he can't just teleport randomly to some planet.

 

[macdaddymario]

It bears repeating, since people seem to not be acknowledging it. As per the rules on Screwattacks site, the DBZ movies count towards the abilities Goku has. In The Return of Cooler, he uses his Instant Transmission ability without the need to lock onto a ki source during the fight with Cooler. So, this part of the argument should be dropped in regards to this match up.

 

[Eon]

Oh my bad. Well the former still stands.

 

[Almighty_Gir]

It bears repeating, since people seem to not be acknowledging it. As per the rules on Screwattacks site, the DBZ movies count towards the abilities Goku has. In The Return of Cooler, he uses his Instant Transmission ability without the need to lock onto a ki source during the fight with Cooler. So, this part of the argument should be dropped in regards to this match up.

**** their site man... they're deliberately biasing the outcome. you either include everything produced, or one specific thing produced.

ie. if you use all of the DBZ movies, you must also use the superman movies.

 

[macdaddymario]

You want to debate with with all the Superman movies, you're more then welcome to. But this thread is about the battle between them via the screwattack rules, make another thread for the match up you are arguing towards.

 

[Zeonix]

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/BatmanvsWolverine/news/?a=49617

Goku's feats consist of getting someone not to look up while he spends 14 episodes charging a ball and punching fast in an environment with greater gravity than Earth's.

You're pitting a man versus a God.

 

[Renyori]

**** their site man... they're deliberately biasing the outcome. you either include everything produced, or one specific thing produced.

ie. if you use all of the DBZ movies, you must also use the superman movies.

It doesn't really matter. Even if they use an uncanon amalgam version of Goku, he still loses quite badly. It's better that they use that, than the actual canon Goku.

 

[Grega]

the problem is i doubt they even researched supes enough to do a proper thing and will only base him on the animated series, where he is considerably weaker than in the comics.

In any case has anyone ever thought of this. Remember how Goku learned to predict moves by changes in peoples KI towards the end of Dragonball? Everyone in the DB universe uses KI or is at least detectable by it. But Technically KI doesnt exist in the same form in the DC world. So technically Goku would have to rely on only his eyes to face Supes and thats something he hasnt done since the time King Piccolo kicked his ass half dead.

 

[Zeonix]

Superman can vibrate fast enough to render himself invisible, so his eyes aren't going to help him.

 

[Grega]

Well technically vibration alone wouldnt make you invisible. You would become a blur though. The other thing is moving more than your visible sides width. Then you have no overleaping and no blurat the area where your body doesnt move away from.

But i get what you are saying. ^^

 

[Zeonix]

Well technically vibration alone wouldnt make you invisible. You would become a blur though. The other thing is moving more than your visible sides width. Then you have no overleaping and no blurat the area where your body doesnt move away from.

But i get what you are saying. ^^

One of his abilities is literally to make himself invisible through self-vibration. I wasn't conjecturing.

 

[macdaddymario]

Grega, the concept of ki is based in real life though. It's not exclusive to manga. There have been documentations of ancient groups of people that would use their bodies energy, or ki, to light objects on fire. Nothing so grand as Dragonball or Naruto, but leaves and the such. Since the concept of ki is what it is, and modern day DC being far more realistic in it's approach to it's comics vs the 60's - the 80's, you would have to assume the concept of ki also exists in this match up.

I'm not going to get into this debate over who would win as I've done it so many times it just isn't fun anymore, but I want to make sure that people that do debate it, put the players on as even a playing field as possible instead of simply dismissing important facts that make the fight even possible. Without ki existing in the fight, Goku would be no different from Mr. Satan... wow, that's something I never thought I'd say.

 

[Zeonix]

Grega, the concept of ki is based in real life though. It's not exclusive to manga. There have been documentations of ancient groups of people that would use their bodies energy, or ki, to light objects on fire. Nothing so grand as Dragonball or Naruto, but leaves and the such. Since the concept of ki is what it is, and modern day DC being far more realistic in it's approach to it's comics vs the 60's - the 80's, you would have to assume the concept of ki also exists in this match up.

I'm not going to get into this debate over who would win as I've done it so many times it just isn't fun anymore, but I want to make sure that people that do debate it, put the players on as even a playing field as possible instead of simply dismissing important facts that make the fight even possible. Without ki existing in the fight, Goku would be no different from Mr. Satan... wow, that's something I never thought I'd say.

Superman's origin, outlandish as it is, is still more plausible than DBZ.

 

[macdaddymario]

Who was arguing plausibility? I was stating that you can't simply say one thing doesn't exist in a fight when it's a key component in the history of one character. That would be the equivalent of taking aways Sups ability to be as fast as a speeding bullet.

 

[Zeonix]

Superman's abilities work in both universes, because his origin doesn't require magic. The same can not be said of ki.

As a side note, you were arguing the plausibility of nature by attempting to draw parallels with reality which, of course, doesn't exactly fly as they aren't exactly reproducing these events at the cyclic in a lab.

 

[macdaddymario]

Cute, but ki isn't magic. Thus the exact same thing can be said. Also, I didn't attempt to do anything. I succeeded in listing factual information about the results of an ancient form of meditation.

Lastly, as I stated before. Taking away a key part of one of the characters back stories effectivly makes any vs match pointless, again it is the same as taking away Superman's speed. If you want to take away character abilities, or limit them in some way.. that's well and good, make a thread about it. However this thread is about the matchup posted on screwattack. As such, the discussion is with their rules.

 

[Zeonix]

You're right. Ki isn't magic. It isn't anything. And though you may actually believe what you posted to be factual, I think most people would agree to disagree. And they'd disagree because there's zero evidence to support those claims.

Ki and Superman's speed are not interchangeable as ki is the source of Goku's strength and speed is a byproduct of Superman's superior genetics and how his body reacts to the Sun. And even if he weren't on par with the flash, he'd still retain the one million other abilities and capabilities he has as a result of being in our galactic neighborhood. But sure, let's go with the completely biased and lopsided rules posed by the last person on Earth to think of pitting the two characters together.

 

[macdaddymario]

You seem mad. Stop taking the match up so seriously. If you read over at screwattack, they posted the rules. Then people posted the abilites and such of each character. Again I say, if you want to take away from a character, that's well and good. Go and make a lopsided thread about it.

Taking away ki is exactly the same as taking away his speed. If you took away Goku's ki, he's Hercule. That effectivly ends any match that could have been. Take Sup's speed away.. now Goku can run circles around him for however long it takes to wear him down again effectivly ending any match that could have been..

Now that I have done exactly what I said I didn't want to do, get into the debate because no one can put aside how they feel about any one character, or they insist on limiting the powers of one or both characters. For the record, if it were upto me.. both characters would be taken out of their respective Universes and stuck in one with neutral rules.. no red sun crap and no 'this planet weighs more then this one junk'. Which, quite frankly is simply the only way to do a proper match up between any set of characters anyway.

 

[Zeonix]

I'm so mad I could just hold my breath until I can't any longer!



In any case, the beautiful thing about a conversation is the parameters can change in an instant and what was once a completely illogical argument favoring one position over the other can suddenly become an objective look at whatever it is being argued. Unless, of course, there's a single person telling every single person he speaks to to stick to the aforementioned parameters. I know you're really set on refocusing me, but I can't hear you over the sound of my freedom.

Back to the discussion within the discussion, I maintain ki and speed are not interchangeable. Remove Goku's speed, and you have a really strong guy who can shoot beams out of his hands and shit. Remove his ki, and he's Jackie Chan. Take away Superman's speed, and he's still a God. Just not a super fast one. Take away the Sun, and he's Jon Hamm. See what I'm getting at? No? It's fine. I'm mostly speaking for everyone else's benefit. But just to be certain, even without his speed, Goku would break his fists on Superman before Supes would ever get tired of simply standing there, being invulnerable and nigh immortal.

For the record, ScrewAttack can go screw itself. If you want to create a neutral zone for the two, go ahead. I'm sure everyone will participate right after they throw their ScrewAttack stone tablets into the ocean.