Power Struggle Idea - Making it more than holding in your button.

[catfish]

Ok people, I feel that the PS system in ESF at the moment is a little too basic and dull and boring. I loved the thought of having a nice *struggle* with someone, but the lameness of cheaters cant allow us to have just a button bashing PS system.

I have thought up this new idea, one that incorporates a bit of ACCURACY into the power struggles.

This one is similar to my two-meter PS system I suggested before (which is still very cheatable) but has a third bar. Here's the explaination:


You begin a power struggle.
On each players screen pops up the PS balance bar (who's winning, who's losing), a "Ki Push" Bar (this is how much Ki gets pushed into the PS in one "blast"), and a "PS Accuracy" bar. I'll now explain these in more detail, especially the PS Accuracy bar.


PS balance bar - this is already in ESF, doesn't need explaining. It tells you if you are winning or losing the PS.

Ki Push bar - once you're in a PS, you have to push Ki into it. Instead of just pumping the Ki directly in by holding in the mouse button, it would pump it into this bar. The more ki you put into the Push bar, the bigger the amount of Ki that is released into the PS in one go.
To make things fair, you could make it so that the push bar fills up slowly first, and then fills faster as it fills up. This way it will be a lot better for you to push huge amounts of ki in one go, rather than small amounts in a number of doses.


Now I know what you are all thinking, "this is just what we have, but you just push it in in turns". Introducing the PS Accuracy bar:

PS Accuracy bar - The accuracy bar is what will stop cheaters. It adds skill to the PS. Most of you would have played a golf game at some time I assume. Normally in golf games, when you swing there is a "swing bar" or similar that will have a little moving cursor. You have to click at the right time to get a perfect straight shot, otherwise your ball will hook or slice. What's this got to do with PS?

As your Ki Push bar fills higher and higher, your PS Accuracy bar's cursor (which could move from left to right) moves faster and faster. Once you fill your Push bar, the accuracy bar's cursor will be going at top speed. You have to then hit secondary fire to push ALL of the ki in the Push bar into the PS. If you miss the accuracy by a long way, only a fraction goes into the PS. The wasted ki could either go back into your Ki Bar, or could be lost! (Give some feedback).


IF a limit break or anger meter gets added into later releases, this could also be implemented into power struggles. YOu could use next/prev weap during a PS to select your "anger meter" and push some of this into the Ki Push bar. I think, it would be decent to say that if you push anger into your PS, then the PS Accuracy bar would go a lot faster, making it harder to perform an "anger push" but the amount of anger used compared to ki in a push and the effects of it should be far better than using straight ki.



I hope i've explained this well enough for most to understand. If you dont understand at all I might be able to make up an ani gif of it or something. But it might take me a while!

 

[KuBaN]

I see where you are getting, and can tell a lot of thought has been put into it, but I personally don't like it. By the time your (and everyone elses) suggestions get put in we'll have more meters than the screen can provide room for. Not trying to impose myself as an idiot, but it would get a little hard trying to do all that stuff just to win a beam struggle that might end up doing 10 damage lol. I think it's a little TOO complex.

Not to mention I like the PS's the way they are.

Unless the way I'm reading it is just making things more complicated than you really intend them... Perhaps an animation or something would do good

 

[catfish]

well number of bars on the screen is easily fixed. when you enter a PS your normal HUD turns into a PS HUD. It's not too complicated. COmpared to what we have now - yes it's very complicated. But ummm... the PS now isn't really that much of a struggle is it?


Oh and don't forget! It's not like you have to worry about getting hit while in PS anymore. So they could well turn into something that lasts for a good 1 or 2 minutes, just looking spectacular in the middle of a map. Everyone would stop and watch due to how long its been going on.

 

[jc_88]

I kind of like a paper rock scissors kind of struggle, obviously, a regular beam can't push back a kamehameha. Maybe it should depend on who has the highest ki?

 

[eaz135]

leave it to just holding the button and going turbo and stuff. if they change it to key bashing or something then it will be very easy to script. eg: if its like in dmz u bash mouse1 and 2 to add power 2 beams people can just make a script in 1 min that will make u punch and kick heaps and heaps really fast in 1 click.

 

[Neros]

Hmmm, i dont really know what to say about this.
It should be harder to do PS, but i dont know if this is too much.

 

[catfish]

This is not a button mashing idea... in fact there is no button mashing in it at all, so scripts will be pretty pointless for this.

Another idea that's we've thought up is to have a single bar, which has lines placed at random intervals. The bar fills up automatically at a set/increasing speed and you have to click your mouse on each line as it goes past. The more you get correct in each run defines how much ki you push into the PS.


I think a PS based on "who has more ki" is pretty stupid. I know, that in the cartoon it would probably work like this, but then again ther ewas the whole human/saiyan emotion mix thing that gave Gohan his boosts against Cell. You have to remember this is a game, so you need it to be challenging and have gamelife, as well as looking good and keeping true to elements of DBZ. I think a good PS system (a competitive one, where even a weaker player can overthrow a stronger one) would add a lot to the game, and would get people trying for PS a bit more.



Does the ESF team have any plans for PS system already? BLade any inside knowledge ??

 

[starkey]

Power struggle is half the reason i like DBZ. Watching them HUGE energy beams, all the screaming as more ki is pushed in, the fact that a power struggle gets stretched across 2-3 episoides of the cartoon. A good power struggle system is definately a plus, and of course one that is cheat proof would be nice too. Seeing as i normally play games on a LAN where i can see everyone i am playing, the cheat factor doesnt really concern me, but i used to be a CS player online, and i know that cheats turned me off playing it online.

The idea of speed variance in power bars is good, as this would be hard to script around. Introducing anger/loss into a PS sounds way kool. I reckon the energy beam becoming fatter/thicker everytime anger is pumped into it would be cooler, so it would be possible to have a PS with a couple of players being dwarfed by their HUGE energy beams.

Even when i play ESF now, i still find myself bashing the attack button in a PS, thinking it is helping me somehow... it comes naturally...

I say bring on catfish's idea!

 

[catfish]

I also thought to add about anger to use in power struggles, it would be hidden from other players. Your PL is not hidden, so they would know how powerful you are, but not how ticked off you are.

If anger is managed in a good way in PS (ie: being far stronger than ki, but not too strong) you could even enter a PS with minimal ki but a lot of anger and still win. And cos the other player doesn't know "how much" anger you have, it makes the game all that much better! (IMO)

 

[Navanax]

Originally posted by catfish
Does the ESF team have any plans for PS system already? BLade any inside knowledge ??

??? Why should I give you any inside knowledge? Do you see me as a public spy or something? ;/

Anyway, I kinda like the idea, but I'm wondering where all those bars would go o_o . The idea of replacing the HUD with PS bars is just bad I think (no offence), this way you wouldn't even know your own PL or amount of Ki, which is important when in a PS, because you want to know when to use turbo and stuff.

 

[catfish]

Blade - you seem to be the one on these suggestion threads that says what the team is doing or considering... so you are sort of like the link into what's getting approved and what's not. I figured if the team has already thought up a good PS system and just not implemented it yet then i'd shut up and not worry about it. The PS in beta1 is not too flashy i think. A button bash would be better than just holding the button in but blasted cheaters ruin it.



well this is one thing bad about the idea, too many bars on the screen.

it is really only 2 extra bars, cos the PS balance meter is already on the side when you have a PS now, and you would need the KI bar on screen so you know when you run out of it. In fact, you could probably turn the 2 Ki Push and PS Accuracy bars into 1 making the accuracy bar simply overlie the Ki Push bar.


The idea i have for controlling in a PS is this:

You enter PS
You press and hold primary fire to put Ki into the Ki Push bar (just like it is now, except it goes into Ki Push bar, not straight into the PS.)

At this point i see 2 different paths for consideration with the PS Accuracy bar:

1. It must be on screen at all times, so that the player can see how fast its cursor is moving and can choose when they want to stop increasing how much ki to use. This helps those players that wont be able to get a good accuracy when it is going at top speed.

2. The other option, which would save screen space, is to have the accuracy bar appear once the Ki Push bar is filled to the player's satisfaction (primary fire is released) This could either simply replace the Push bar, or just be an overlaying meter on top of it (if that's possible - i suppose it is)

The player now presses primary fire, attempting to get the accuracy cursor in the center of the bar, which will use all the ki they have put into the push bar.
The player can now fill their Push bar again, and so on...


Also, will it be possible to ascend while in a PS? I mean, when you have reached perfect PL for that ascension? This wouldn't work for characters that can't descend i think, but for the saiyans this would be cool!

 

[SCIxX]

I like the PS how they are know, what I would really hate would be button smashing. Anyway I've gone through you're whole message but I don't really like the suggestion, especially not the way of the accuracy bar.