Petition For New Open Beta

[Horatio]

It's as much about you as it is about filipe. As far as I know, development isn't organized in sprints, iterations, milestones or whatever you want to call it. Therefore, snapshots are simply extra work and not a byproduct of regular development. Bottom line: Ain't gonna happen.

Just find some artists who are actually motivated to work. That'll help.

I never said the snapshots were polished, Minecraft textures are frequently missing from snapshots. Just being able to see how it's going would be enough.

 

[fuzzy]

It's not about missing textures. It's about a build where you can successfully load even a single map.

 

[Horatio]

It's not about missing textures. It's about a build where you can successfully load even a single map.

I doubt that the game is unplayable between builds, otherwise they would not have been able to film all those trailers. Besides, even if doing a certain thing on the build would crash the game, it would be fun to have a look at it. Even if I could see the files that are going into the game, I would be happy.

 

[KYnetiK]

The people who fail to appreciate what it takes to build a videogame are the joke.

Why should the game suffer because of individuals too irresponsible or immature to deal with their emotions without resorting to tantrums and hate mail? That's how I expect 2 year olds to behave, not hardcore fans who know what they are looking at. That saying, 'we don't negotiate with terrorists' comes to mind. I do agree however that more updates would be a positive thing. The issue though is that game development in a team is a fickle venture. Progress comes in trickles and is not always impressive or visible. But at the end of the day, communities of many games feel disenfranchised all to often these days by not feeling any momentum. Even if it comes down to a mostly boring tedious list of minor updates, a consistent daily or weekly devlog is all people really want. Predicting how people will react to certain things and what they can deduce from it is also very important to the team, as any artist understandably wants to unveil something not seen before. I think the team as well as the fans need to ultimately come to terms with what they/we really to want to keep unspoiled until that orgasmic eventual release day [ graphics, mechanics etc]. How much you want to know and how much you need to know are very separate things, hence why blurbs are on the back cover and why movie trailers aren't 90 minutes long.

 

[Grega]

Reading all this it seems to me that half the people dont even know what an Open Beta is, because they are fooled by companies using the term "Open Beta" as a promotional/demo stunt to sell their games before they are finished. What we released under "Open Beta" is what the meaning of the phrase is. Its an unfinished most likely broken version of software where the developers turn to the community for help with locating bugs and what not. It is never meant to be useable/playable or promotional.

So is the community really ready to cope with the consequences of a real Open Beta or do they just want another of those bullshit releases that are going round as promotional stunts?


As for the "leak" we didnt just use it to mess round. We used pictures to show off a new HUD and not only that, there were 2 variations of it, and a bit of gameplay that isnt really acted in to a cinematic video, but is pure gameplay (even though Raven was only messing round in the game). Anyone following the project would notice that.

 

[Horatio]

The people who fail to appreciate what it takes to build a videogame are the joke.

Why should the game suffer because of individuals too irresponsible or immature to deal with their emotions without resorting to tantrums and hate mail? That's how I expect 2 year olds to behave, not hardcore fans who know what they are looking at. That saying, 'we don't negotiate with terrorists' comes to mind. I do agree however that more updates would be a positive thing. The issue though is that game development in a team is a fickle venture. Progress comes in trickles and is not always impressive or visible. But at the end of the day, communities of many games feel disenfranchised all to often these days by not feeling any momentum. Even if it comes down to a mostly boring tedious list of minor updates, a consistent daily or weekly devlog is all people really want. Predicting how people will react to certain things and what they can deduce from it is also very important to the team, as any artist understandably wants to unveil something not seen before. I think the team as well as the fans need to ultimately come to terms with what they/we really to want reveal until release day [ graphics, mechanics etc].

A devlog sounds like the best that we can come to, seeing as all too many people feel like 'Oh, it would HURT the game! Yeah, yeah, we can't have things like optional snapshots ruining the game's reputation...?'

But really, it wouldn't hurt the game to have Open Betas. The artwork isn't a problem. They release trailers and POTWs a lot. These are literally all about the artwork.

--- edit ---

Reading all this it seems to me that half the people dont even know what an Open Beta is, because they are fooled by companies using the term "Open Beta" as a promotional/demo stunt to sell their games before they are finished. What we released under "Open Beta" is what the meaning of the phrase is. Its an unfinished most likely broken version of software where the developers turn to the community for help with locating bugs and what not. It is never meant to be useable/playable or promotional.

So is the community really ready to cope with the consequences of a real Open Beta or do they just want another of those bullshit releases that are going round as promotional stunts?

A broken Open Beta would be absolutely fine, at least in my books. Even if one couldn't start up a server, some of the tech-savvy community members could locate the cause and post it on the forums. I see no reason to keep the game back. What about the build that they used for the trailer? That one looked pretty 'usable'.

 

[Zeonix]

You don't need it, but neither do you technically need the game at all, it wouldn't help you live, would it? No. Would it be nice to see how the game is coming along? I personally think so. It just seems that the devs, at this point aren't even doing anything. It was only because of the leak I knew that this thing was still in development.

That's an idiotic train of thought. Having another shitty open beta may appease you, who cares about nothing but instant gratification, but for those of us who have legitimately waited for the game with nary a complaint, having another broken release does absolutely nothing other than divert resources to make something broken seem presentable to the layman. If you can't be bothered to hang around the community and keep yourself up to date because they aren't releasing a ton of media, that's on you, and the community is probably better off without your presence. But let's not pretend you wouldn't skip your happy ass back here in a flash when word of an official release got to your baby ears. Attracting new members isn't an issue. Retaining the ones they already have is.

if that soo feel free and remove the open beta link .
no one would care because its not playable,
the previous released version are only PLAYABLE thats why many people got pissed of and just left this forum not even that "leak" video april fools joke got the popularity back the people got even more pissed of then before

You're right. No one would care if they removed it, because its unplayable. That's why the people who still play the game competitively prefer 1.2.3.

You guys keep talking about a massive exodus, but keep this in mind. The people we liked have already left. Why should we cater to your needs? The goal shouldn't be to cave in to people who've been around for half a second. As said to sillypants number 1 up there, let's not pretend you wouldn't rush back as soon as you found out the game was released. You're a fickle bunch and once you get bored of the "new open beta", you'll demand more and more because you don't actually care about the process. You just want something to play. That's cool, but it isn't how we roll.

A broken Open Beta would be absolutely fine, at least in my books. Even if one couldn't start up a server, some of the tech-savvy community members could locate the cause and post it on the forums. I see no reason to keep the game back. What about the build that they used for the trailer? That one looked pretty 'usable'.

The amusing thing about all this is the point of an open beta is to help find bugs, give constructive criticism, test gameplay elements and mechanisms, etc. During the last open beta, no one did shit. They downloaded it, they played it, and then they vanished. You can't be counted on. This has been made clear time and again. You demand everything, and offer nothing in exchange.

 

[Grega]

A devlog sounds like the best that we can come to, seeing as all too many people feel like 'Oh, it would HURT the game! Yeah, yeah, we can't have things like optional snapshots ruining the game's reputation...?'

But really, it wouldn't hurt the game to have Open Betas. The artwork isn't a problem. They release trailers and POTWs a lot. These are literally all about the artwork.

--- edit ---



A broken Open Beta would be absolutely fine, at least in my books. Even if one couldn't start up a server, some of the tech-savvy community members could locate the cause and post it on the forums. I see no reason to keep the game back. What about the build that they used for the trailer? That one looked pretty 'usable'.

i kinda agree with him ,and the difference between this and open beta is that the open beta sucks
it cant be even cleary called "open beta" sorry to say it sucked but thats true
people just downloaded and see maps and characters with not correctly update and had no fun with it, it was just basicly a showcase with no playable reason

I ask you again. Would the community in your opinion REALLY be ready for a real Open Beta and not one of those fake promotional stunts using that name?

 

[Zeonix]

The answer is no. When has the community ever really helped itself or the team when it required actual work?

 

[KYnetiK]

The man speaks truth. Why fight it?

That's an idiotic train of thought. Having another shitty open beta may appease you, who cares about nothing but instant gratification, but for those of us who have legitimately waited for the game with nary a complaint, having another broken release does absolutely nothing other than divert resources to make something broken seem presentable to the layman. If you can't be bothered to hang around the community and keep yourself up to date because they aren't releasing a ton of media, that's on you, and the community is probably better off without your presence. But let's not pretend you wouldn't skip your happy ass back here in a flash when word of an official release got to your baby ears. Attracting new members isn't an issue. Retaining the ones they already have is.



You're right. No one would care if they removed it, because its unplayable. That's why the people who still play the game competitively prefer 1.2.3.

You guys keep talking about a massive exodus, but keep this in mind. The people we liked have already left. Why should we cater to your needs? The goal shouldn't be to cave in to people who've been around for half a second. As said to sillypants number 1 up there, let's not pretend you wouldn't rush back as soon as you found out the game was released. You're a fickle bunch and once you get bored of the "new open beta", you'll demand more and more because you don't actually care about the process. You just want something to play. That's cool, but it isn't how we roll.

How about a new OpenBeta IF OperationTIEN is accomplished? =P

 

[Viper]

Oh, how cute! You joined the forums today and you want to see an open beta.
What on Earth gave you that bright idea?

Admit it, like every other "releasegametard" you're interested in the pretty graphics and DBZ characters. If you cared about the actual game, you'd support 1.2.3. You know, the latest release. The game isn't losing popularity because the developers release awesome screenshots (plus the occasional video) and never actually release the game. DBZ itself is losing popularity, with it being 23 years old.
If you want ESF to be more popular, promote it, play it, have your friends and your friends' friends play it. Because it's a solid, good game, and, even though the graphics are outdated, it has great gameplay.

So, please, take that petition, and, until you come up with a good reason for it, keep it in your tight preteen *******.

 

[Grega]

The answer is no. When has the community ever really helped itself or the team when it required actual work?

Aside from a few exceptions you mean.

Thing is we never shut the door on anyone who is willing to help and knows how to act at least half decently.

 

[Horatio]

That's an idiotic train of thought. Having another shitty open beta may appease you, who cares about nothing but instant gratification, but for those of us who have legitimately waited for the game with nary a complaint, having another broken release does absolutely nothing other than divert resources to make something broken seem presentable to the layman. If you can't be bothered to hang around the community and keep yourself up to date because they aren't releasing a ton of media, that's on you, and the community is probably better off without your presence. But let's not pretend you wouldn't skip your happy ass back here in a flash when word of an official release got to your baby ears. Attracting new members isn't an issue. Retaining the ones they already have

It was meant to be stupid, because the thing I was arguing against was stupid. Besides, I have been ghosting here for at least three years, since the release of Open Beta: Final. I didn't know the thing was still in development because there was virually nothing saying 'We just added this' or 'we fixed this' or even referencing devving the thing. And I never denied that I would jump right back here when Final was released, and the ones they already have will slowly start to leave, no matter how many pics you are releasing. I also said nothing about making it presentable. Personally, I would rather they didn't make it presentable, because then they would be, as you mentioned, putting more resources into the game, and not the Open Beta.

As soon as Open Beta: Final was released, I played it for a long time. I know a lot of the bugs, I understand how the system works, I've even combed through the readable parts of the source code.

 

[DaFeLa]

again its not clearly about an open beta ,its about what u guys did with that stupid af joke. who ever came with that dumb idea must be an bonehead didnt none of you developers even asked themselves what the consequences could be making that af joke.

thats what caused the popularity to sink and let people rage quiting that cant be easely regain with a new preview video fans want a new open beta even if its not meant to be playing and without melee atleast we as fans can enjoy the waiting and see what the game is capable off ,then and the popularity will rise again

and of what ive heard about an open beta . every open beta i ever played in my whole life was playable even if it was with bugs in
That esf open beta is in a way different dimension you are talking about

some weeks ago this forum was full of active members even if it wasnt full like before the open beta but gratz on the fake leakings its DONE for people already giving shit about this

community wont help the project speed up u cant expect people to join and help speed up the project after all most of us cant even models we are just fans!

 

[Horatio]

Before this goes any further, I would like to admit I was wrong in this argument.

I understand that the team may not want to give away anything just yet, and I shouldn't push them for an open beta..

 

[Grega]

What source code. The source code was never released with the Open Betas

And the team doesnt mind an open beta. Its just that we got REALLY REALLY badly burned by the last one we did. We have had it going for 2 years a new version every month and we got a handfull of people actually doing what they are supposed to and the other 99% were all just throwing insults our way about how horrible and buggy the game is.

So why go though all that again?

 

[Horatio]

What source code. The source code was never released with the Open Betas

I was talking about the stuff that was readable, not really source code, more like the-stuff-that-I-could-extract-and-read.

 

[Zeonix]

It was meant to be stupid, because the thing I was arguing against was stupid. Besides, I have been ghosting here for at least three years, since the release of Open Beta: Final. I didn't know the thing was still in development because there was virually nothing saying 'We just added this' or 'we fixed this' or even referencing devving the thing. And I never denied that I would jump right back here when Final was released, and the ones they already have will slowly start to leave, no matter how many pics you are releasing. I also said nothing about making it presentable. Personally, I would rather they didn't make it presentable, because then they would be, as you mentioned, putting more resources into the game, and not the Open Beta.

As soon as Open Beta: Final was released, I played it for a long time. I know a lot of the bugs, I understand how the system works, I've even combed through the readable parts of the source code.

How is stating "another open beta isn't necessary" stupid, and even slightly as retarded as stating you don't need ESF to live?

So here's the deal. I've been here for over a decade. You know what I've learned? Patience. Because you're right. We don't need ESF to live. When a release comes around, huzzah. I'll play it, maybe even master it like the last time. But if they never released it, I wouldn't care, either. But you've been here for a hot second, and are demanding a new release BECAUSE PEOPLE DONT KNOW ABOUT ESF AND THEY SHOULD BECAUSE PICTURES AND ESF. Cool. You know what this sounds like? It sounds like we need a PR guy to advertise. You know what isn't necessary for advertisement? Another open beta.

So really, you just provided a shit ton of reasons why we should focus more on taking pictures and letting people know the mod is alive. It's a perception thing, and not a game thing. Cool.

Thanks, guys. Problem solved.

@filipe: Why do we need an influx of people right now? Why is it so important that we begin to attract new people right this moment and not in the future closer to an official release?

 

[Horatio]

I agree, I looked over my previous messages and realized I'm a derp.

 

[fuzzy]

Even if one couldn't start up a server, some of the tech-savvy community members could locate the cause and post it on the forums.

Funny thing is: they can't. Without having access to the source code and without even the slightest idea of what might be the cause, there won't be any solutions from anyone. The only thing a tester can do is report what happened and what led to it. With this information, a dev might be able to figure out what the problem is.