Partnered Class

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I think Krillin, Piccolo, and Young Gohan should all be under a buddy system.

Gohan has Masenko/KHH and Shield, Krillin has Solar Flare, Scattershot & Destructo Disc, Piccolo has SBC, Masenko, Eye Lasers, and that attack to surround the enemy with ki balls. They're all completely different, so it makes mastering this class very challenging and fun.

I'd make the fusion for Piccolo and the Mystic for Krillin instant once they hit a certain PL and it stays permanent. It'd require no animation sequences. Young Gohan becomes Teen Gohan much later, and he can transform like other characters.

Instead of having Destructo Disc be an instant-kill, I'd make it more of a disabler. If it hits them, it does stamina damage based on PL differences. If they're equal, it severely damages their stamina and does damage on top of it. If the opponent is way stronger, it will do minor stamina damage and no actual.

Scattershot would be useful as an area attack. It'd be like Piccolo's ki swarm attack, except this would be a beam. You fire it into the air, and then you right click where you want the shrapnel to land. If the enemy is on the ground, they will have a hard time escaping all of the blasts.

Piccolo's ki swarm shot thingy would be different. It's a targeted attack that just flies straight in their direction, but doesn't change course after the initial launch. Krillin's would be for ground/wall, Piccolo's would be for air.

Young Gohan and Piccolo compliment each other since KHH is a Beam, and SBC is a Bomb attack. Depending on the situation, it may be more useful to use Piccolo instead.

Young Gohan and Krillin, when fighting in the Frieza saga, both team up together.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9XXsUiZ_ZQ[/ame]

Young Gohan untransformed would use his Masenko together with Krillin's KHH, and vice versa. That way neither are a useless skill.

When Young Gohan transforms, he uses the KHH only by himself.

Solar Flare is great at escaping melee situations. If Young Gohan or Piccolo ran out of stamina and was being assaulted, they could swap out for Krillin and he could potentially SF and escape to rest.

Piccolo's lasers could be useful at detonating ki balls and gen beams. This makes Piccolo the best distance fighter.

Krillin can use SF and DD, making him a more potent close ranged fighter.

Young Gohan is best for fighting overwhelmingly strong opponents and aiding allies, since he can close the PL gaps with transformations and use a Shield to absorb damage from incredible shots. He can also use the SAM bar to ascend to SSJ2 temporarily as his Rage move, giving him a boost to PL on top of it. His SAM bar could drain slower to prolong the Rage. However, he can never master SSJ2 and transform into it freely.

I think this would better define the differences between Young Gohan and Mystic Gohan. Krillin and Piccolo would realistically be a part of the game too, depending heavily on the SAM bar to make their attacks more powerful. They wouldn't need their PLs to be 100 million to be any good. And you know in the series that they would both sooner step in and die than see Gohan be killed.

The strongest human, the strongest namek, and the youngest saiyan. I think it's a pretty balanced and diverse team.

The key is to make their swaps instantaneous and the SAM bar allowing them to instantly charge attacks.
 
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I see why you want them all to be paired together, but I think the buddy system was sort of a justification to add some lesser characters to the game. For example, Gohan, Piccolo, and Krillin are all major characters that are important enough to stand on their own where as Ginyu's entire crew would be a bit of a stretch to have as individual characters.

Just my two cents
 
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Yeah I can see how that works. I'm just thinking that Krillin and Piccolo are pretty much useless against the Cell and Buu, just as the Ginyu Force would be. Like in the Frieza saga, Krillin, Piccolo, and Young Gohan are on an equal level with the Ginyu Force.

In the Cell/Buu sagas, Krillin and Piccolo are left behind, and Young Gohan steps up to fill the PL gap with Cell. As you played them through, Young Gohan would always be the character you use against a stronger opponent with the ability to use Krillin and Piccolo as supports to buy him time to recover.

So I think this way you could mix them all together to have it make more sense instead of giving Krillin and Piccolo way more PL or bonuses than they should have. Krillin will never fight on par with Buu... ever. The only time he ever came into play was to be a diversion to give the others time to recoup.

Young Gohan was only on equal standing with Cell when he hit SSJ2 at the very end, and that's the same way this whole thing would pan out.

EDIT: Also, I think Android 18 is stronger than Krillin, and Androids are in the buddy system.
 
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Well you just sort of have to ignore that stuff and realize it's just a game. There would never be a Buu vs Ginyu fight, nor could the entire Ginyu force even be able to hurt Buu. You have to throw your sense of disbelief out of the window and just focus on the game, no amount of buddying would make that type of fight fair :p.

Plus, I think it just makes sense for the Ginyu Force / Androids to be fighting together, not so much for Piccolo Krillin and Gohan.
 
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Yeah I mean I know how that all works.

I know most people look at them individually since they're good guys, but in like every single thing in DBZ, it's always Piccolo, Krillin, and Kid Gohan until he hits the Cell Saga as Teen Gohan. Even then they all fight together.

Piccolo's PL tier would be fusion with Nails then Kami, Krillin's would be Mystic then Adult, and Kid Gohan would take awhile to become Teen Gohan with the ability to go SSJ. His SAM bar rage would be SSJ2, and unlike other Rage styles, his would be easier to sustain in combat and give a bonus to PL.

Teen Gohan could wear Piccolo's cape too! Isn't that swell? They'd be dressed alike.

I mean if we're talking about how the game doesn't have to reflect the series, then it could theoretically work both ways right? Why couldn't this be possible?
 
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Well, think about it like this then - The team would have to make major changes to a part of the game that's essentially done. They'd have to do all of this work for what? To reduce the character count from 13ish to 9. We have 9 characters in 1.2.3. Plus, people are going to want to play as Gohan, Piccolo, or Krillin as they all played huge roles in the show. They're not going to want to work to unlock these characters and then to have them relegated to mere sidekicks.
 
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I think it's quality over quantity. For example, look at 1.2. How often do people play as Piccolo, Krillin, and Young Gohan now? Everyone uses Goku because he has a faster swoop speed. If you had to compare using Goku to Krillin, Piccolo, or Young Gohan, you'd pick Goku, because he's all around the best. The only way to really give value to the other characters is to allow them to band together, imo.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb3CR-4PP9I[/ame]

Krillin can't even fight the weakest Cell, and his role is all diversion here. Piccolo comes to back him up. Story wise, it's all sound.

But as far as reprogramming goes, I can see how it might be hard to justify it. It's not really the most important change to make, but it's one that I'd at least consider once balancing issues were the primary concern.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-hbzoVr-Mg[/ame]
 
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Everyone used Goku in 1.2.3 because the game was horribly imbalanced. Most characters weren't used because they were either far too slow (You can't even do a double hit most of the time as Krillin), had no good beams (Some characters like Trunks were a combination of being far too slow and no good beams), took too long to transform or were just simply overpowered. I'd imagine the situation would be a lot different if players could reasonably use other characters without feeling gimped or feeling overpowered.
 
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I kind of like playing with all characters in esf , I don't play for pwding noobs i play for fun.
 
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Based on what you said before about creating additional work... would it really be that complicated to program? Each model and their animations are already in place. The only thing you have to change is making them part of the buddy system, where you could just take the template and fill in the variables with theirs.

There's two ways to go about improving Krillin or Piccolo individually... give them unique SAM bar attacks and bonuses which compliment their persona, and/or make their transformations grant more PL than they should. One requires extensive programming, and the other is a cop out that will take away from the diversity of the characters. Krillin, Piccolo, and Gohan are weaker and fight together in a team. That defines their characters. If Krillin can kick Buu's ass by himself, then it isn't Krillin.

Being grouped together is an awesome advantage in itself. It'd add some diversity in there too, being able to play 3 characters together as 1. Just giving each person one special move with the SAM bar would be all you'd need. You could keep their PLs really low and they'd still kick ass. You just need to make sure the transitioning flows well and their moves can compliment what they're doing.


I mean this isn't the only solution. You can make Krillin and Piccolo good on their own, sure. If you're going for a game that resembles the series though, more than just graphics, then I think this would improve and add to that. I know that this hasn't been a priority in the past, but looking at the graphics now, maybe it should be. I'd personally love playing them grouped together like that.

If you compare them to the Androids or the Ginyu Force and consider that as taking away from them, then I think you're wrong. Their characters will always remain the same regardless of how they're implemented into the game. If someone is going to play Krillin, they're gonna do it because they like his character and the role he plays in the series. What better way to do this than how he fights in the series, as part of a team. Or you're playing as Young Gohan and he's about to be killed by Racoom's beam. Piccolo jumps in and saves him and takes over the fight! It resembles the actual series and adds character interaction and teamwork in there where individually that wouldn't exist. That teamwork aspect makes their characters more interesting and enjoyable to play.
 
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Actually disguise. Characters like Gohan and Krillin arnt used because pros mostly play in normal form and say transformations arnt needed. Thats exactly where Gohan and Krillin exscell at.

Gohan Transforms at 1 million PL and his SSJ speed is the same as Gokus SSJ speed. Krillin takes longer to transform but his transformation is preety much the best in the game. He gets the fastest speed of all characters and the second most HP of all characters. Not to mention its a constant transformation so runing out of KI wont drop you down.

I must agree with Piccolo beeing a bit scuky. Along with Trunks whos SSJ speed is the slowest of all Saiyans. But thats 1.2.3

Oh and i dont think Destructo Disc should become a stamina drainer. Hell even Frieza, who was more than 10 times stronger then Krillin, avoided it. The only reason why it became useless was because Buu and Cell could regenerate their bodeys.

Destructo disc is right to be an instagib attack. Cause if not it would be the ****tiest attack of the game ^^
 
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If there are budies, I disagree with their ability to transform.

BTW will in ESF 1.3 characters still have different PLs, HPs & speed so in duels you'll have to choose the character you don't like?
 
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Meh I make one crappy comparison and it becomes the focus of the conversation.

On one end I hear... this isn't supposed to be the series, and then the other is saying "This is how it works in the series."

If Cell and Buu are hit with a DD, is it going to be programmed so they don't die? Right now DD rarely hits and kills anyone. Even if it did, it's just shortening the fight way too much, which is why in the series it never kills anyone. The concept was there, but as far as enjoyment value goes, it's like shooting yourself in the foot.

At least this way it can be improved on and made so it's easier to connect since the penalties would be less severe. By doing stamina damage, it'd make it easier for Krillin to both set up the enemy to be killed and escape, making his role in a buddy system very important and true to character.

DD could be targeted and have a slight ability to change course and correct itself to make it more likely to land. It could also charge and fly faster so the enemy can't see it coming a mile away, and I'd make this part of the lower end of the SAM bar. Because of the nature of the disc, it can't be blocked.

If they're near death, like Trunks' sword, it could do a gib. Otherwise you don't say just because Trunks cut through Frieza that his sword should always be an instagib.

Just all my opinion though. I woke up and I have to move a ton of stuff today, so forgive me if I'm being rude in the way I talk about this.
 
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Yeah, you should not die or at least be able to block the Destructo Disc if you're strong enough.

Destructo Disc and Trunks' sword is a really good comparison.
 
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You cant really compare material to energy.

Im just saying the disc is a slycing style attack and not a stamina effect type. While we dont really follow the series to a dot, i have yet to see an attack in ESF that was classed incorrectly. Well aside from Trunks burning attack ^^
 
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I really can't understand your want to sideline 2 of the most major characters in dragonball. Piccolo and Gohan are both substantial characters in their own right, they take part in some of the most important fights in dbz, Gohan at one point is pushed towards being the main protagonist. They both have an interesting and diverse arsenal of attacks and both have a multiple transformations (atm, we have 1 for piccolo, though it may become 2)

Krillin I could understand your want for him to be paired up with somebody since he's a pretty sideline character himself (in dbz) he only has one transformation and there isn't much appeal to him. However I think Yamcha and Tien would be much better more suitable buddies for him than gohan and piccolo. It'd be nice to have them as sidelined buddy characters than take 2 of the major characters, remove their transformations and make them buddies for krillin >_>

Destructo disc, I don't think is a well designed attack, I disagree with an insta gib being in a 700hp game anyway, not only that, but it suffers terrible speed and control because it is insta gib. The thing I think defines a good attack is, "could I find a use for this in competative gameplay?" and with destructo disc; certainly not. It's more fluke than skill.
 
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I'd suggest buddies for ESF characters that never transformed in anime/manga but I think it will be denied.
 
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I think it would be interesing to have a dynamic buddy class. It most likely wont be implemented, but Ill throw it out there anyway.

You basically can pick any 3 characters.
You can only use base forms, and no transformations.
You have a minimum play time per character before you can switch.
Have a PL restriction, for example PL of strongest character is divided amongst all 3 characters.
 
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I think a dynamic buddy system would be pretty cool as a game mode. But I would limit it to just 2 characters, not 3. 2 characters would make it more interesting.
 
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I think a dynamic buddy system would be pretty cool as a game mode. But I would limit it to just 2 characters, not 3. 2 characters would make it more interesting.
If was available as an option it might be alright.

I'm hoping ESF will end up with all characters having their various pros and cons, having more than one character to choose from almost mid-fight might create a pokemon-like effect where people swap with their to gain the upper-hand.

None of the 3 characters mentioned need buddies. Not that I'd say no to Yamcha and Tien though.
 

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