Non-Linear Transformations Tree

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I've noticed a number of remarks on these forums about 100% Frieza, USSJ, 4-arm Tien, etc. plus, I remember people complaining at one time that it takes too long to get enough PL to trans with some characters. Now we know these aren't true transformations (I heard Tien's 4-arm thing is a technique), so I would suggest the Ascension / Descension system be changed so that it isn't quite so linear. This involves making the two-button system that controls transforming now into a three-button one (perhaps including C?) and perhaps adding a smaller CF bar under the current one. Anyway, my idea is to attach another form to some of the forms we have now.

My suggestion would enable characters to "beef-up" to turn speed into extra PL when they feel they need it. Let's say you're SSJ and don't have enough PL built up to turn SSJ2, but you have your smaller CF maxed, you could press "C" to go USSJ, or whatever you want to call it, and get, say, x1.5 PL and x0.65 speed.

Example (for a Saiyan):

Normal + "Z" = SSJ
Normal + "C" = Nothing (or Kaioken?)

SSJ + "Z" = SSJ2
SSJ + "C" = Beefed (or USSJ)

SSJ2 + "Z" = SSJ3
SSJ2 + "C" = Beefed SSJ2

Note that Frieza's trans may seem a bit redundant, considering "C" would only work when "Z" is already maxed in forms. However, this sounds a bit better to me than including the 100% trans as a "special ability" as said in another thread. It keeps the semi-transes uniformally under a second ascension key.

Other uses:

100% Frieza
100% Cell
Piccolo's growth?
Tien's 4-arm technique
Goku's Kaioken?
I'm sure there could be others...


So yeah, that's the whole idea. C&C are definately welcome. I'm not directly suggesting any of these forms, just the "trans tree" with mid-way forms (if the team considers USSJ, etc.). I've noticed a number of people asking for these sorts of things in the past. I'd like to request that all transformations under "C" not be permanent like Cell, Buu, Krillin or Frieza's forms.
 
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i actually agree with this, this was in the series, and i think cell should be able to beef up his muscles like he did against trunks (i know its in the manga) but yeah i agree sum characters could have this ability, I think to balance this out though, they must reach at least half way to their next transformation, and characters without this ability should have their powerlevel multiplier adjusted to balance the game.
 
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I was thinking they could have a whole new CF bar, as I said. That way, it need not necessarily be 1/2 their normal CF, but a whole new value that the ESF team can balance.
 
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It has merit but I doubt the Team and people really want to bother with pressing another button with CF level half or something like that because they are too busy trying to avoid peoples attacks when CF is half. And it is bad enough already that you have to remember the power level to transform let alone having another mini transformation inbetween the main one.
 
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DarkOMEN said:
I've noticed a number of remarks on these forums about 100% Frieza, USSJ, 4-arm Tien, etc. plus, I remember people complaining at one time that it takes too long to get enough PL to trans with some characters. Now we know these aren't true transformations (I heard Tien's 4-arm thing is a technique), so I would suggest the Ascension / Descension system be changed so that it isn't quite so linear. This involves making the two-button system that controls transforming now into a three-button one (perhaps including C?) and perhaps adding a smaller CF bar under the current one. Anyway, my idea is to attach another form to some of the forms we have now.

My suggestion would enable characters to "beef-up" to turn speed into extra PL when they feel they need it. Let's say you're SSJ and don't have enough PL built up to turn SSJ2, but you have your smaller CF maxed, you could press "C" to go USSJ, or whatever you want to call it, and get, say, x1.5 PL and x0.65 speed.

Example (for a Saiyan):

Normal + "Z" = SSJ
Normal + "C" = Nothing (or Kaioken?)

SSJ + "Z" = SSJ2
SSJ + "C" = Beefed (or USSJ)

SSJ2 + "Z" = SSJ3
SSJ2 + "C" = Beefed SSJ2

Note that Frieza's trans may seem a bit redundant, considering "C" would only work when "Z" is already maxed in forms. However, this sounds a bit better to me than including the 100% trans as a "special ability" as said in another thread. It keeps the semi-transes uniformally under a second ascension key.

Other uses:

100% Frieza
100% Cell
Piccolo's growth?
Tien's 4-arm technique
Goku's Kaioken?
I'm sure there could be others...


So yeah, that's the whole idea. C&C are definately welcome. I'm not directly suggesting any of these forms, just the "trans tree" with mid-way forms (if the team considers USSJ, etc.). I've noticed a number of people asking for these sorts of things in the past. I'd like to request that all transformations under "C" not be permanent like Cell, Buu, Krillin or Frieza's forms.
I also agree. The way transforming is now. Gets kinda boring, once you transform (I know there aren't more transformation, but I garrentee it would still be boring once you achieve your 2nd or 3rd form). This suggestion would allow you to do more with your current form, more or less like techniques that can be done for specific transformations.

DarkOMEN said:
I was thinking they could have a whole new CF bar, as I said. That way, it need not necessarily be 1/2 their normal CF, but a whole new value that the ESF team can balance.
Yes. That's an excellent suggestion to this. With an addition to a new CF (Or PU[Power-Up]) bar, you'll know when you can do the transformation specific technique.

In addition, I was thinking. Once you reach your "next-in-line" transformation, and successfully transform to it. You shouldn't be able to do that technique from the previous form. Think about it, why would you want to use that technique if you can become even stronger than it already? ;)
 
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I like it. I think I suggested something like it once, and it's good to see somebody else wants it who is willing to think it out before he suggests it.
 
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I thinks its more of Alternative Powerup than another transformation. anyways:

Goku: Kaioken
Vegeta: Majin **Only from SSJ** (Also SSJ2)
Cell: Dunno... help here
Frieza: 100% **Only In last form**
Gohan: Rage????
Trunks: USSJ **Only from SSJ** (If its not going to be a new transformation in 1.3)
Buu: Maybe Evil Buu? **Only from Form #1**(Trans #1: SuperBuu; Trans #2: KidBuu)
Picolo: Growth **Can be done only after first fusion** (If fusions will be transformations.
Krillin: Dunno
 
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There could just be lines in the CF bar...

Hmm...actually, this gave me an awesome idea! Let me kick it around a bit and I while post it later on!!
 
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You have to take in consideration the forms the Z characters actually used while fighting not just standing there showing they could do it.

Goku:
Super Saiya-jin
"Z" Super Saiya-jin
"C" Kaioken

Super Saiya-jin 2
Super Saiya-jin Full Power/Maxed out (he was in this form when he fought cell)
"Z" Super Saiya-jin 2

Super Saiya-jin 2 and Super Saiya-jin 3
"C" Super Saiya-jin 2 Full Power "No maxed out stuff seeing as he didnt max it"
"Z" Super Saiya-jin 3


Vegeta:
Super Saiya-jin
"Z"

Super Saiya-jin, and Super Saiya-jin Dan Ni Dankai "Super Saiya-jin of second level (not ssj2)"
"C" Super Saiya-jin
"Z" Super Saiya-jin Second Level

Super Saiya-jin 2
"C" Evil Power Unlock "Also known as his Majin form"
"Z" Super Saiya-jin 2

Super Saiya-jin 2 Full Power
"C" Super Saiya-jin 2
"Z" Super Saiya-jin 2 Full Power


Young Gohan (there will be two versions young and adult i believe)
Super Saiya-jin
"C" Anger Explosion
"Z" Super Saiya-jin

Super Saiya-jin 2
"C" Super Saiya-jin Full Power/Maxed out (he achieved it with Goku)
"Z" Super Saiya-jin 2


Teen Gohan
Super Saiya-jin
"Z" Super Saiya-jin

Super Saiya-jin 2
"C" Super Saiya-jin "Full Power"
"Z" Super Saiya-jin 2

Dai Kaioshin-sama Power unlock "also known as Mystic"
"C" Super Saiya-jin 2 "Full Power"
"Z" Mystic (I am hoping this is going to be permanent when he gets or it when he does he doesn't have to go through all of his forms just to get to it because in the show all he had to do was power up and gather ki as if he were going ssj)


Trunks
Super Saiya-jin
"C" Super Saiya-jin
"Z" Super Saiya-jin Full Power

Super Saiya-jin Dai Ni Dankai
"C" Super Saiya-jin
"Z" Super Saiya-jin Dai Ni Dankai (Super Saiya-jin Level 2) (not ssj2)

Super Saiya-jin Dai San Dankai
"C" Super Saiya-jin Dai Ni Dankai
"Z" Super Saiya-jin Dai San Dankai (Super Saiya-jin Level 3 (not ssj3) also known as ussj to some people.

(Trunks never ever went ssj2 so these are all of his forms)


Piccolo
"Z" Namek Fusion with Nail (should stay permanent)
"C" Full Power up

"Z"Namek Merging with Kami/Piccolo (should stay permanent also)
"C"Full Power


Kuririn
"Z" Guru Potential Unlock
"C" Full Power up

(thats all for kuririn)


Frieza
First Transformation
"Z"

Second Transformation
"Z"

Third Transformation
"Z"
"C" Max 100% Power


Cell
Semi Perfect
"C" Full Power up
"Z" First Transformation ( I call him semi perfect )

Perfect
"Z" Perfect
"C" Dan San Dankai (he has ssj blood plus he did it while fighting Trunks just to show him, but he fought with it against Gohan)

Super Perfect
"C" Dan San Dankai
"Z" Super Perfect (he had electricity around him just like if someone we ssj2 plus he has the saiya-jin blood so of course he could do it)


Buu
Evil buu
"Z" Evil buu
"C" Super buu

Super Buu's Absorbing
"C" Gotenks
"Z" Gohan

True Buu
"Z" True Buu (kid buu)
 
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gibtafeno said:
It has merit but I doubt the Team and people really want to bother with pressing another button with CF level half or something like that because they are too busy trying to avoid peoples attacks when CF is half. And it is bad enough already that you have to remember the power level to transform let alone having another mini transformation inbetween the main one.
u dont have to memorize the powerlevel use ur CF bar. its there for a reason.
 
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i love the idea i just think all the 'mid trans' should be on a time limit.

here is what i think should be in for the 'c' :

goku -> kaioken = cost hp per sec
ssj goku -> superkaioken / ussj (lowers speed)

gohan , ssj gohan -> rage (shorter time limit)

ssjvegeta -> ussj or SV (lowers speed)
ssj2vegeta -> majin

ssjtrunks -> ussj (lowers speed)

freiza -> 100% freiza (lowers speed)

cell -> buffed up cell

piccolo -> buffed up piccolo (he did it vs jarlic)

tien -> 4 armes

krillin -> ammm... ammmmmmmmm
 
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I like the idea of having multiple transforms, but there should still be only one CF-bar that is divited with lines. There should also be only one transformation key. (If you are able to use ssj2, you will never use ussj.)
Here are my ideas:

[Goku]
1. Normal
1.1 Kaioken
2. ssj
3. ssj2
4. ssj3

[Vegeta]
1. Normal
2. ssj
2.1 ussj
2.2 majin ssj
3. ssj2

[Gohan]
1. Normal
1.1 Rage
2. ssj
3. ssj2

[Trunks]
1. Normal
2. ssj
2.1 ussj

[Piccolo]
1. Cape
2. without Cape
2.1 Beefed (like when he was fighting against Garlic jr.)
3. Super Namek (Fusion with Kami)

[Buu]
1. Fat Buu
2. Evil Buu
3. Super Buu
3.1 Gotenks Buu
3.2 Gohan Buu
4. Kid Buu

[Frieza]
1. Form1
2. Form2
3. Form3
4. Form4
4.1 100%

[Cell]
1. Form1
2. Form2
3. Perfect
3.1 Beefed
3.2 After Explosion

[Tien] (As you may know he will be in 1.3)
1. Saiyan Saga
1.1 4-Arms
2. Buu Saga
 
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That looks about right but I think that all the characters should have the same number of power ups so there is balance between the characters (even though we know this isnt true in the show).

* = my comments.

Lortinak said:
[Goku]
1. Normal
1.1 Kaioken * should only last a few seconds and/or be like what Shay said (cost hp)
2. ssj
3. ssj2
4. ssj3 * might not need to keep the number of power ups to 3
* or keep it if Kaioken only lasts a few seconds

[Vegeta]
1. Normal
2. ssj
2.1 ussj * Vegeta never went USSJ, might not need to keep the number of powerups to 3
2.2 majin ssj
3. ssj2

[Gohan]
1. Normal
1.1 Rage * not as strong as Kaioken but lasts longer/ no hp lost
2. ssj
3. ssj2

[Trunks]
1. Normal
2. ssj
2.1 ussj
* maybe needs a stronger form of SSj after Ussj since he trained more

[Piccolo]
1. Cape
2. without Cape * and without the weighted hat
2.1 Beefed * be when he fused with Nail
3. Super Namek (Fusion with Kami)

[Buu]
1. Fat Buu
2. Evil Buu
3. Super Buu
3.1 Gotenks Buu * might not need to keep the number of power ups to 3
3.2 Gohan Buu * might not need to keep the number of power ups to 3
4. Kid Buu

[Frieza]
1. Form1
2. Form2
3. Form3
4. Form4
4.1 100% * might not need to keep the number of power ups to 3

[Cell]
1. Form1
2. Form2
3. Perfect
3.1 Beefed * might not need to keep the number of power ups to 3
3.2 After Explosion

[Tien] (As you may know he will be in 1.3)
1. Saiyan Saga
1.1 4-Arms * add in his Cell saga look as second power up
2. Buu Saga * make this his third power up
 
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Okey, now I'm going to post more specific (Powerlevel Multiplier is alwais compaired to the normal form.)

[Goku]
1. Normal
1.1 Kaioken - pl * 1.5 speed: 260 (Costs Health and only lasts a few seconds)
2. ssj
3. ssj2 - pl * 2.8 speed: 300
4. ssj3 - pl * 3.5 speed: 340 (Only lasts a few seconds)

[Vegeta]
1. Normal
2. ssj
2.2 majin ssj - pl * 2.5 speed: 280
3. ssj2 - pl * 3 speed: 300

[Gohan]
1. Normal
1.1 Rage - pl * 1.4 speed: 240 (Only lasts a few seconds)
2. ssj
3. ssj2 - pl * 3 speed: 300

[Trunks]
1. Normal
2. ssj
2.1 ussj - pl * 2.8 speed: 180 Health: 250
(Trunks doesn't have a "real" 3th Trans, so I would give him more health then the other at ussj.)

[Piccolo]
1. Cape
2. without Cape
3. fusion with Nail - pl * 2 speed: 280 - |Permanent Trans|
3.1 Beefed - pl * 2.3 speed: 250
3. Super Namek - pl * 2.8 speed: 300 - |Permanent Trans|

[Buu]
1. Fat Buu
2. Evil Buu - |Permanent Trans|
3. Super Buu - pl * 2.3 speed: 320 - |Permanent Trans|
4. Kid Buu - pl * 2.5 speed: 330 - |Permanent Trans|

[Frieza]
1. Form1
2. Form2
3. Form3 - pl * 2 speed: 280
4. Form4 - pl * 2.5 speed: 340

[Cell]
1. Form1
2. Form2
3. Perfect - pl * 2.5 speed: 300 - |Permanent Trans|
3.2 After Explosion - pl * 2.8 speed: 320 (NOT Permanent)

[Tien]
1. Saiyan Saga
1.1 4-Arms - pl * 1.5 speed: 260 (Only lasts a few seconds)
2. Cell Saga - pl * 1.8 speed: 260 - |Permanent Trans|
3. Buu Saga - pl * 2.5 speed: 300 - |Permanent Trans|
 
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Will you all just LOOK at my posts I mean omg its perfect the way I have it Accurate to the show and everything but noooo you go on making your posts thinking you are "cool and accurate". If you would PAY ATTENTION to the show your posts would make sense, and have more balance.
 
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:S Oh my god. I noticed alot of people suggesting that the kaioken should take up health. If it's gonna cost hp, then no one will use it.

Krazy-Killa said:
Thread: Kaioken [Hopefully the non-spamming/unbalanced way.] (DO NOT POST IN THIS THREAD!)

...
Ok here's my idea on Kaioken.

I think Kaioken should be a powerup all on it's own. Like a transformation and turbo combination somewhat. When you do change to kaioken you only go 2x (Cuz 5x, 10x, etc is just overkill from my standpoint.), and you can't powerdown for 5 seconds (To prevent stopping the health drain, and those pesky spammers), and instead of it draining ki AND health, it should just drain health, and at about 5 points a second. And once you powerdown, your health should go back up to where it was before you transformed (Like in regular half-life when you recover from drowning), and you can't transform again until a preset amount of time. Oh, and if your health is below a minimum requirement you won't be able to use kaioken. I think that Negative KI Pool idea would work fine with this as well, but that's my opinion.
...
Like that quote suggests, if kaioken has to have health drain, then make it so the player can get his health back, at some point in time. As for the sub transformations. Here's what I have in mind:
  1. Goku
    1. Normal Form
      1. Maximum Power
      2. Kaioken
    2. Super Saiyan
      1. Super-Kaioken (Same health drain applies)
      2. Maximum Powered SSJ.
    3. Super Saiyan 2
      1. Maximum Powered SSJ2 (Even though it wasn't used in the show, it does exist.)
      2. Breaking Point (Drains Health, non recoverable. Not in the show, but sounds interesting. :D)
    4. Super Saiyan 3
      1. Maximum Powerd SSJ3
      2. Breaking Point
  2. Gohan
    1. Normal
      1. Rage
    2. Super Saiyan
      1. Maximum Power
    3. Super Saiyan 2
      1. Rage
    4. Mystic
      1. Permanant. Which means no ability to power down.
  3. Vegeta
    1. Normal
      1. Saiyan Pride
    2. Super Saiyan
      1. Ultra Super-Saiyan (1.5x speed)
    3. Super Saiyan 2
      1. Majin
That's all that I'm suggesting. Just for those three Characters, since I know more about their transformations then the rest of the characters.
 
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Darkomen, I like this idea.
It's always been about transformations in dbz, alot of them are minor, but still, an added a bonus for the character.
Certainly does make the transformation process much more intresting and accurate.

SSJ Shin Carl : Your list does seem pretty accurate/complete and i agree with them.




Here is what i think about the buttons:

Z Button : Should take you straight to your highest possible transformation. Which would mean normal to ssj3 without the hassel of going through all transformations.

C Button : Cycle to next transformation. This would take you up one transformation. (e.g ssj,ussj,ssj2,ussj2,ssj3.)
 
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I like the suggestion about the buttons by Shuyin.

About the Kaioken, why not instead of having it drain health, how about for the duration it is activated, the player takes more damage? And Tien could use the Kaioken too.
 
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no such thing as ussj2

Super Saiya-jin
Super Saiya-jin: Sub Categories
Super Saiya-jin Dai Ni Dankai
Super Saiya-jin Dai San Dankai
Super Saiya-jin Full Power/Maxed out

Super Saiyan II
Super Saiya-jin II: Sub Categories
Super Saiya-jin II Full Power

Super Saiya-jin III
I don't think you could get full power with III since it takes up so much energy as it is.


Potential Unlocks/Power ups
Potential Unlock: Sub Categories
Namek (Guru's)
Kaioshin (Dai Kaioshin's also known as the Mystic)
Babidi's (Majin)


Self Power ups
Anger (Gohan)
Pride (Vegeta)


Merging/Fusion
Namek (Piccolo)
Kami (Piccolo)

In about a hour ill have a way all of these can work.

Cap J said:
I like the suggestion about the buttons by Shuyin.

About the Kaioken, why not instead of having it drain health, how about for the duration it is activated, the player takes more damage? And Tien could use the Kaioken too.
If he wasn't seened using it then he CANT USE IT -_-.
 
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Tien cant do kioken because he never trained with Goku in DBZ, so there is no way he could learn it.

SSJ Shin Carl, just because we never see a character do the move, doesnt mean they dont know it. To the best that I know, we never see Tien do a Kamehemeha but we know that he learned how to do it from training with Goku in DB.

Also I agree with your Gohan self power up but not the Vegeta one.

Self Power ups
Anger (Gohan)
Pride (Vegeta) - doesnt exist, just like how ussj2 doesnt exist

The Vegeta pride power up doesnt make sense. There never was a time when Vegeta snapped at the thought of his pride and it caused him to increase his powerlevel as much as gohan did. Sure hes thought of it and then powered up more but, he never gained an amazing increase of power from it.
 

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