New Swoop System

[Zeonix]

I understand the need to have a slow swoop and a fast swoop, but wouldn't it be better to just have a single swoop where you can control your speed? I don't know, bind acceleration and deceleration to your mouse scroller, press w, swoop forwards, and if you're trying to travel across the map, travel at a slower speed with lower ki usage and if you want to get to your opponent quickly when he's fairly close, accelerate like crazy at the expense of your ki and stamina. Letting go of w would stop the swoop, allowing people to drift again and would give people the freedom to move as they please.

I'm basically just going to repeat the above and try to elaborate on it.

There are 2 swoops in 1.3. Most people hate having 2 separate swoops, since one is extremely slow, making it a ***** to travel long distances, and one is very fast, but viable in very few situations. My idea would combine both swoops, creating a new, easy to use, and easy to control swoop.

Basically, we would have a swoop where WE would control the speed at which we travel. What ever do you mean, Zeo? Well, we would be controlling our character in much the same fashion one would fly an airplane. Except not really. The scroller on your mouse would determine how fast you travel. You would start out at a neutral setting or the middle ground, if you will (unless you choose to have your default speed at something else via the options menu). Scrolling the mouse downwards would cause your character to decelerate, and scrolling upwards would cause you to accelerate. I chose the scroller because it's easy to use and if you want to change attacks, you should use the number keys anyway. If you have time to charge a kame torpedo, you have time to press the key.

The neutral speed would allow you to cruise around, using less less ki and less stamina, and perfect for traveling long distances. Traveling at high speeds would be perfect for catching your opponents in close quarters, or trying to cut them off in mid-air, allowing you to hit them from the sides or wherever else you please. It would essentially be dash. I like to think of slower speeds as something like an airbrake. Scrolling downwards rapidly would result in rapid decceleration, bringing you to a complete stop, or just..make you really, really slow. Whichever people prefer. When you begin to swoop again, you would start out at the normal speed.

Dashing/Highest Speed would last until you tell it to stop. It doesn't stop at a pre-determined time. It's up to you. You are in control.

I have discussed the keys for this idea with my clanmate Sub, and we've thought of several possibilities:

Shift + Forward key* = Swooping forwards

*Any other direction

This would allow people to continue floating around and walking, while still being able to swoop around with ease. However, many people would prefer to have a single swoop button.

So tapping Forward once allows you to swoop, tapping forward once more allows you to stop.

Or just have single taps, hold the key down and when you let go, you stop.

I personally don't care how the keys are set up since they all seem to work pretty well. Would be nice if we had multiple options, allowing people to play the way they want to play.

That's about it for now I guess. If I think of anything else, I'll add it.

Critz and comments, as usual.

ADDITIONS TO THE SYSTEM:

My second part is, being able to teleport while swooping. Now, it may seem like it will be unfair, but it's really not. If you teleport while swooping, it takes some of that stamina away for every single one you do. It could also come at a pretty high ki cost. I initially came up with this idea to work with the 1.3 swoop, since you can't stop to teleport and then swoop again. I think it would just make it easier to play more on the offensive side, but it comes with a cost.

:yes:

Addtion Number 2:

When using Dash/traveling at high speeds, there should be a motion blur. This idea originated from someone else, and was supposed to affect people being hit (after you were hit, the screen would become blurry to emulate high speeds). Because dash is now in the game, and is basically a sprint, I think it would be a pretty good idea to give the player the feeling of traveling very quickly. The team will probably add something like this anyway when the fx system is up and running, but I thought I'd suggest it anyway.

 

[sub]

The idea basically streamlines what the ESF team wants to do. They want a dash, they want a swoop, this will combine them into one. I always hated the idea of having two swoop modes, it just seems to complicate things for the sake of complicating things.

Anyway, this would add a lot more depth into the game. I'm all for it.

 

[imkongkong]

the main point of dash was to integrate it into advance melee, so this idea in essence might make using advance melee difficult =o i can't make a judgement on this till adv melee is implemented

 

[Zeonix]

"Advanced" melee is being designed with dash in mind, so I'm sure by that point there will be no point in even considering my suggestion, as no one would want to scrap two systems in favor one that might drastically alter the way the team has envisioned people would play the game.

In other words, it might be better to catch the bear before it mauls that family while searching for the pic-in-ic basket.

 

[Skiwan]

I tried to argue against the dash/swoop thing on occasion, and the answer I got was "well we want people to focus more on advanced melee in 1.3, and we need a swoop system which doesn't make basic melee the centre of attention" (well thats the jist of it). See, I didn't see the point in this, the only reason basic melee was favoured (imo) in 1.2, was because advanced melee was not an effective means of fighting an opponent. If the point really was to make advanced melee more prominent we should have focused on implementing advanced melee first then messed around with the swoop system accordingly, because imo we're doing it back to front, basic melee worked wonders, advanced melee wasn't effective, so we change the basic melee to compensate for the advanced melee which isn't even implemented?... meh.

However, about this Idea, I like the idea of it, but it becomes a change during movement Kind of thing I guess? Is every movement started at the neutral speed or is it how you left it last?

 

[Zeonix]

Well, that's for you and the rest of the community to decide on. I left the system itself pretty open for change, so it can adapt to whatever the majority decides is best. I think I mentioned it would return to the normal speed once you let go. I had ki management in mind when I wrote that, but if people see something wrong with that or anything else, hell, it's our game. If people want it to stay at the last setting, I'm up for it (although having Dash as a last setting might accidentally get you killed due to improper ki management). Looks for things to improve, add, remove, or even make a new system for your own. If

The open beta has opened a door that's always been closed to us, and we should take full advantage of it. This is merely a bare bones version of what it could become because I was taking a shower when the idea came to me .

 

[imkongkong]

i think the prob daveh was that we didnt have a final concept of adv melee =\

 

[Zeonix]

This might come out the wrong way, but why are we being forced to choose one melee over another? To me, having a full arsenal and being able to choose how to kill my opponent is extremely important. To me, having full control of all of my movements is important to me. Freedom of choice is essential to a game like ESF.

Advanced melee and simple melee should both be viable options. The problem with 1.2's A-melee wasn't that simple melee was completely overpowered. It was that A-melee wasn't very effective and was too time consuming. The end didn't justify the means. I can understand wanting to get the new A-melee out the door, but don't dismiss the melee that has always been extremeley effective in battle, or try to replace it. Work with what you've got and improve it.

 

[Skiwan]

Advanced melee and simple melee should both be viable options. The problem with 1.2's A-melee wasn't that simple melee was completely overpowered. It was that A-melee wasn't very effective and was too time consuming. The end didn't justify the means. I can understand wanting to get the new A-melee out the door, but don't dismiss the melee that has always been extremeley effective in battle, or try to replace it. Work with what you've got and improve it.

This was my point exactly. I dont think it mattered what we were going to do for advanced melee, we just needed it to be just as effective as basic. How people got into those situations was completely up to them, I know I sometimes couldn't be arsed with noobs in 1.2 so I'd just advanced melee them and combo them 3 times, because It was effective and safe, that was my decision. However, going into somebody at a relevant skill level was stupid, only hits you'd pull off are the ones that flash up random on their screen and vice versa, and it could go on for way too long. That's the only reason basic melee remained the norm, because it was quicker, higher damage, more skill based and had more room for expandability/opportunities.

Imo the standard swoop in 1.2 would favour neither system and leave it up to the player in 1.3 if advanced melee is indeed as good as it sounds. There was no real need for this change other than to push people to favour advanced melee, and I'd rather that was my choice, not the games.

Thing is I've kinda come round to the idea of dash and swoop... but i dont like how it is currently, no control in dash and too slow to swoop I have a few Idea's myself in my head but I can't come up with anything I like yet. I do know one thing though, and that's I prefered how it was in 1.2 to how it is currently.

 

[imkongkong]

but don't dismiss the melee that has always been extremeley effective in battle, or try to replace it. Work with what you've got and improve it.

i agree that simple melee was extremely effective in battle, and that was the only way to become good; the game became a game of ONLY simple melee, and we wanted to make sure advance melee got the same "amount of playing time" for lack of better terms

you said yourself 1.2's adv melee was slow and wasn't effective, thus everything is being revamped. however, simple melee is practically used as the only way to fight, so it was brought down a bit. of course it'll be hard to see how far to change simple melee until adv melee comes into play, and that's when it'll become more clear on how to tweak simple melee and the mechanics when everything has been put together

 

[Zeonix]

i agree that simple melee was extremely effective in battle, and that was the only way to become good; the game became a game of ONLY simple melee, and we wanted to make sure advance melee got the same "amount of playing time" for lack of better terms

you said yourself 1.2's adv melee was slow and wasn't effective, thus everything is being revamped. however, simple melee is practically used as the only way to fight, so it was brought down a bit. of course it'll be hard to see how far to change simple melee until adv melee comes into play, and that's when it'll become more clear on how to tweak simple melee and the mechanics when everything has been put together

The game became a game of ONLY simple melee because advanced melee just wasn't attractive to anyone who wanted to...you know...cause damage. When you have the choice of using a shotgun or a butter knife, I think it's safe to say most would choose the shotgun. Some might choose the butter knife to see what happens, but that's about the only reason.

Because Advanced Melee is being revamped, being made better, there is no reason to make simple melee less than what it currently is. Bring advanced melee up to par with simple melee. Don't lower the bar to give advanced melee a chance .

 

[Mountain Dewd]

I really like this Idea,

The only thing I would do differently, is bind it to something like the shift key, in a heated battle it would be far too easy to scroll way to far and burn all your ki, an incremental turbo I think would work really well.

It would have something like three (or more, could be made into a cvar so it could be customised) stages of turbo from your base speed, increasing ki drain and speed each time you press it, attack power could be increased each time, and on the third stage of turbo, you could do something like a super basic melee hit, but at the cost of alot, if not all of your ki, so as to keep things balanced if you were using these speed changes in an offensive capacity, it would really cost you to do so.

 

[john_volkov]

I'd say that Dashing sould be dissable till he new advance melee appears and the swoop to be a little bit normal ww tipes swoop start swoop presing Turbo and keep presing turbo charge swoop

 

[Skyrider]

To disable dash is not needed, because the basic melee is still working properly.

 

[Mountain Dewd]

You seem to have a very loose definition of "properly"

I'm really looking forward to the next version of the beta, if we are able to cancel dash properly, and dash with a little more freedom, I might start really getting into 1.3.

 

[Rayne]

I thought of something similar a while ago, but didnt think anyone would like it. Its a great idea. If it was my decision I would just drop advanced melee and implement this. Basically, this takes the gameplay of basic melee and adds another tier.

 

[Grega]

I'd say that Dashing sould be dissable till he new advance melee appears and the swoop to be a little bit normal ww tipes swoop start swoop presing Turbo and keep presing turbo charge swoop

You my friend compleetly miss the point of open beta. It will not be tweaked so that people can play it easier. Its ment for testing. The only tweaks that are happening is for testing reasons.



As for the idea. I find id a bother to have my mousewheel binded to something else than teleport and turbo.

Having those 2 on the mousewheel leaves me free hands with the swooping and recharge buttons. Also some people have melee binded to mousewheel down. So they can select it easily without it interfearing with tehir swoop.


And honestly i like the boosted swoop system. It makes for interesting outcomes. But dash seriously needs a change (and i already said waht i think of it).

All in all its a good idea. But it really gives me a headache to have to jump from key to key when i can have the mousewheel exterminate 2 of my problems at once. (teleport and turbo)

Im bad at hitting keys on the keyboard XD

 

[Sicron]

If advanced melee is finished, you should just enter an advanced melee mode when engaging in advance melee. This would turn into a small field where you would be able to dash in and fight the other person. Outside this field, you would just need normal swoops. I hate it when I respawn, have to double tap swoop all the way to the other side of the map, because everybody is fighting there. And then have to recharge because of the double tapping, and then get killed while recharging.

I am all for this suggestion, it would really make the game a lot more fun.

 

[Grega]

If advanced melee is finished, you should just enter an advanced melee mode when engaging in advance melee. This would turn into a small field where you would be able to dash in and fight the other person. Outside this field, you would just need normal swoops. I hate it when I respawn, have to double tap swoop all the way to the other side of the map, because everybody is fighting there. And then have to recharge because of the double tapping, and then get killed while recharging.

I am all for this suggestion, it would really make the game a lot more fun.

Hence the onetap boosting feature. Besides you can allways beamjump.

 

[Zeonix]

You my friend compleetly miss the point of open beta. It will not be tweaked so that people can play it easier. Its ment for testing. The only tweaks that are happening is for testing reasons.



As for the idea. I find id a bother to have my mousewheel binded to something else than teleport and turbo.

Having those 2 on the mousewheel leaves me free hands with the swooping and recharge buttons. Also some people have melee binded to mousewheel down. So they can select it easily without it interfearing with tehir swoop.


And honestly i like the boosted swoop system. It makes for interesting outcomes. But dash seriously needs a change (and i already said waht i think of it).

All in all its a good idea. But it really gives me a headache to have to jump from key to key when i can have the mousewheel exterminate 2 of my problems at once. (teleport and turbo)

Im bad at hitting keys on the keyboard XD

As I said, all the keys are subject to change. It's what the majority wants, not what I want.

As for beamjump, well, you guys kinda destroyed that by not allowing turbo to give it the full speed it deserves.