Melee suggestions
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Well what I see on most servers is that people play MELEE or BEAMS, i think that if you would like to improve the overal game play you need a 'natural mix' not by forcing, but by putting up a fun, hard, yet powerfull melee system.
If i look back at the series you see mostly that it is like this:
Weak guy keeps punching, strong guy keeps dodging and plays around (coz he's to strong anyways)
or:
The guys are evenly match and have a constand row of punches in to each other face, hitting the other and get beaten there selve.
Now how to improve melee in 1.2, it's my vision you can say it sucks or not but i don't care any way:
Make melee more lasting, you need to keep recharging, that takes away the real fun. I suggest the whole game should be less ki draining (except for the big moves [kamewave etc]) that would make battles more interesting because you don't need to recharge every damn second. About head on collitions or just collition ... it shouldn't be dependable on ping or ki, but on pl, you have a bigger pl you have more chance of winning (note i say CHANCE) so weaker guys can win also. now this will make head on melee use less if ur weaker. so u need to be more creative. but this would only work if the moving system wouldn't take that much ki as it does now.
well i think i'm over looking stuff, but i couldn't think of any more...
Peace,
Lost
If i look back at the series you see mostly that it is like this:
Weak guy keeps punching, strong guy keeps dodging and plays around (coz he's to strong anyways)
or:
The guys are evenly match and have a constand row of punches in to each other face, hitting the other and get beaten there selve.
Now how to improve melee in 1.2, it's my vision you can say it sucks or not but i don't care any way:
Make melee more lasting, you need to keep recharging, that takes away the real fun. I suggest the whole game should be less ki draining (except for the big moves [kamewave etc]) that would make battles more interesting because you don't need to recharge every damn second. About head on collitions or just collition ... it shouldn't be dependable on ping or ki, but on pl, you have a bigger pl you have more chance of winning (note i say CHANCE) so weaker guys can win also. now this will make head on melee use less if ur weaker. so u need to be more creative. but this would only work if the moving system wouldn't take that much ki as it does now.
well i think i'm over looking stuff, but i couldn't think of any more...
Peace,
Lost
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A small improvement?
Well, there's really not much you can do without completely revising the system, which is what beta 1.2 is, so I won't go there.
I'd say just fix the swoop functions, it is annoying when it doesn't fire off. Also, I find I have a lot of trouble figuring out when I'm actually within melee distance, or what not.
Some people can tell when their character is "in range" or 'in position', but I know for a lot of people that it's hard as bunk to figure out when you're in a good position to do melee the manual way. Even when I swoop, I think i'm in range, I think i have the positionining, and then I just watch my character model kind of bump the guy and do nothing. It would be nice if some kind of indicator could be made to show if you're in the proper hitting position or not. But that's probably entirely useless, and it certainly isn't small.
Just flesh out the bugs, there's not much you can do to help melee at this point. I'm sure 1.2 is different from 1.1.
Taking an idea from the last post though, about Beams and Melee, I feel that one way to drastically improve the game as a whole, and perhaps appease to the number of esf players who have banned melee from their servers, cry about it, etc., is to incorporate BEAMS more into the game. 1.1 seems to have taken beams out of the game. The best melee players can pretty much totally ignore beam attacks, teleporting and then bashing opponents to bits. The fast, evasive movements have been reserved for melee only, and it's often difficult to break out of a melee and then safely gain positioning for a beam attack, without being a very high power level. I don't know how you could do it though without turning the game right back into a glorified rocket game. Cheers.
Well, there's really not much you can do without completely revising the system, which is what beta 1.2 is, so I won't go there.
I'd say just fix the swoop functions, it is annoying when it doesn't fire off. Also, I find I have a lot of trouble figuring out when I'm actually within melee distance, or what not.
Some people can tell when their character is "in range" or 'in position', but I know for a lot of people that it's hard as bunk to figure out when you're in a good position to do melee the manual way. Even when I swoop, I think i'm in range, I think i have the positionining, and then I just watch my character model kind of bump the guy and do nothing. It would be nice if some kind of indicator could be made to show if you're in the proper hitting position or not. But that's probably entirely useless, and it certainly isn't small.
Just flesh out the bugs, there's not much you can do to help melee at this point. I'm sure 1.2 is different from 1.1.
Taking an idea from the last post though, about Beams and Melee, I feel that one way to drastically improve the game as a whole, and perhaps appease to the number of esf players who have banned melee from their servers, cry about it, etc., is to incorporate BEAMS more into the game. 1.1 seems to have taken beams out of the game. The best melee players can pretty much totally ignore beam attacks, teleporting and then bashing opponents to bits. The fast, evasive movements have been reserved for melee only, and it's often difficult to break out of a melee and then safely gain positioning for a beam attack, without being a very high power level. I don't know how you could do it though without turning the game right back into a glorified rocket game. Cheers.
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Simple, heres this idea, in the duration of head-ons, creat a powerstruggle meter, while the animation will have each player throwing punches and kicks that each users controls, the one with the most hits and wins over there meter then can follow up with numerous other melee hits, i don't think its possible with the half-life engine but i might as well throw that out.
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That's melee struggling. THey want a suggestion to upgrade the current melee. I think the swoop timing idea is the best one to settle head on hits. Otherwise, I think it's fine.
To the people who think beams are still "useless": Have you ever fired a generic beam at someone swooping at you? More damage then a melee hit, it makes them LOSE their flying and swoop, and they go flying away from you or better yet, up over or under you, helpless. If you have a button bound to select melee as your attack (mine's mouse4, default is 1 on the keyboard), you can switch to it real quickly after nailing someone with a generic beam, get a lock, and take them to school. :0)
Sometimes I just let people swoop at me; their own velocity lets the beam send them WAYYYY past me and out of swoop. Then it's OWN@GE time. :0)
To the people who think beams are still "useless": Have you ever fired a generic beam at someone swooping at you? More damage then a melee hit, it makes them LOSE their flying and swoop, and they go flying away from you or better yet, up over or under you, helpless. If you have a button bound to select melee as your attack (mine's mouse4, default is 1 on the keyboard), you can switch to it real quickly after nailing someone with a generic beam, get a lock, and take them to school. :0)
Sometimes I just let people swoop at me; their own velocity lets the beam send them WAYYYY past me and out of swoop. Then it's OWN@GE time. :0)
I have another Idea!!!
you swoop sure and when you press ALT.Fire the punch immediattly goes off!
in something like 1 sec!
in 0.6 sec since the punch got out it is the most powerfull and the one that hurt the most when you get hit by it
in 0.7=0.4 - half the hit it would be in 0.6 , 0.2 , 0.8 - 25% hit of best shot....
you know what I mean right?
so it make somesort of a power struggle betwin the 2 ppl!
so the one the pressed at the closest time to something like 0.6 will win! and his punch`ll make the other guy fly off .......
those numbers were just an example! the coders will use any numbers they wish ( I hope close enough to my suggestion! ?? "?-\" )
tell me what you think of this suggest?
you swoop sure and when you press ALT.Fire the punch immediattly goes off!
in something like 1 sec!
in 0.6 sec since the punch got out it is the most powerfull and the one that hurt the most when you get hit by it
in 0.7=0.4 - half the hit it would be in 0.6 , 0.2 , 0.8 - 25% hit of best shot....
you know what I mean right?
so it make somesort of a power struggle betwin the 2 ppl!
so the one the pressed at the closest time to something like 0.6 will win! and his punch`ll make the other guy fly off .......
those numbers were just an example! the coders will use any numbers they wish ( I hope close enough to my suggestion! ?? "?-\" )
tell me what you think of this suggest?
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While it's true that you can get generic beams off against melee opponents, it is also true that once a competent melee user learns about that tactic, they adapt to it, and unfortunately, the adaption isn't hard to figure out. slow down if you think they're charging up, get into a decent teleport range, and then attack at an angle they can't figure out. A good melee person will still be in control, and that's only using one weapon.
My thought was that the game should incorporate the beams in more so that the winner of a server HAD to use all weapons to win, or almost all of them. Or he had to at least be good at using them in conjunction with one another.
However, in terms of a 1.1 to 1.15, the timing swoop thing is about the best thing. I'd also like that swoop activation thing to be smoothed out. Nothing is more annoying than the following occuring.
1.) You're close, you want to swoop anyway, it doesn't happen.
2.) You're close, you go for a manual hit, but as usual, the range for those hits always seem to be different.... ; )
3.) You swoop, but if you jerk your direction too much one way or the other, it mysteriously just stops swooping. This prevents you from effectively swooping a person who just decides to swoop away, and so you get this game of teleportation and being the last person to run out of energy.
That's all. Otherwise, it's fine.
My thought was that the game should incorporate the beams in more so that the winner of a server HAD to use all weapons to win, or almost all of them. Or he had to at least be good at using them in conjunction with one another.
However, in terms of a 1.1 to 1.15, the timing swoop thing is about the best thing. I'd also like that swoop activation thing to be smoothed out. Nothing is more annoying than the following occuring.
1.) You're close, you want to swoop anyway, it doesn't happen.
2.) You're close, you go for a manual hit, but as usual, the range for those hits always seem to be different.... ; )
3.) You swoop, but if you jerk your direction too much one way or the other, it mysteriously just stops swooping. This prevents you from effectively swooping a person who just decides to swoop away, and so you get this game of teleportation and being the last person to run out of energy.
That's all. Otherwise, it's fine.
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whoever has most points will win the headon
3 pts for pl higher by 500k
2 pts for higher pl below 500k, within 50k would make .5 pt
1pt for higher ki
2 pts for starting first
1 pt for starting on ground (u get additional push...)
2 pts for aiming at head of opponent
u can keep adding and adding....nothing to do with ssj though...if u ssj and opponent isnt but he has much higher pl...well u shouldnt win...
3 pts for pl higher by 500k
2 pts for higher pl below 500k, within 50k would make .5 pt
1pt for higher ki
2 pts for starting first
1 pt for starting on ground (u get additional push...)
2 pts for aiming at head of opponent
u can keep adding and adding....nothing to do with ssj though...if u ssj and opponent isnt but he has much higher pl...well u shouldnt win...
I like the ideas of timing needed to hit for melee, but think any factor should be just that - one factor of several and not decide the result on its own. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned that would probably make a lot of sense tho is actually focusing on your target. I don't mean just selecting him, but having him dead in your sights (your crosshair turns red). Shouldn't someone who has locked onto their target longer than the other way around have an advantage? It's like the equivalent of focusing on your attack mentally. It should be relatively easy to code as well. Just have a counter in the code that starts to increment when you have someone in your crosshairs during a swoop (the counter would automatically reset if you get someone ELSE in your crosshairs). If target leaves your crosshairs for say more than 1 second or .5 seconds or whatever, then the counter resets. If your counter variable for your target is higher than your target's counter for you is (you've had him in your sights longer than he's had you) you will have an advantage factoring into some formula that decides who wins that headon. There should be a maximum value to this counter, and this max should maybe be a little higher for transformed characters (adding a little incentive to take the time to transform).
I also don't think this, or any other factor should be a hands down win to a head-on collision. I think just using ping, or just PL or just any one factor to decide an instant win is always going to be abusable. A few factors at least should decide the result if we're going for an instant balanced decision. One formula might a combination of what I mentioned above with the counter variable difference adding say up to 50% advantage, factor in each players current percentage of PL (not actual PL amount which would make it unfair to those with lower starting amounts) with perhaps a 10% bonus to this % if the char is transformed all adding to up to a 20% advantage from a higher PL percentage, factor in up to say a 20% advantage from who had better timing on the right click (it's too easy just being able to hold right click the whole time while swooping). There's up to 10% left which could maybe be factored by whoever was swooping longer or maybe (I have no idea if the collision detection is advanced enough for this) up to 10% bonus to whomever was closest to having their sights dead center on their opponents core at time of contact. All of this stuff could be combined to create a certain amount of damage/pushback done depending on how much advantage the winner of the collision had. Below could be an example...
Player 1 = Goku, Player 2 = Vegeta
Goku swoops at Vegeta first, but sloppily and doesn't really zero in well until last second. Vegeta teleports a bit, gets Goku in his sights and swoops later but keeping Goku dead on in his sights.
At the time they meet Goku had Vegeta in his sights for 0.8 seconds, Vegeta had Goku for 1.4. A 50% advantage would go to someone who's opponent didnt' even really get a good look at him, so for this about half the length Vegeta gets a 25% factor out of 50%.
At the time they hit Goku has about 50% of his max PL and Vegeta has about 80% BUT is transformed so it counts like a 90%. Pretty good difference, give Vegeta about 15% out of 20% factor for this one.
Goku has almost perfectly timed his right click, while Vegeta was a bit early. For numbers sake say Goku was .05 secs late of a perfect timing while Vegeta was .2 secs early. A perfect timing probably should have been right when the two models would first touch. Give Goku about 15% out of 20% for timing.
At time of contact, Vegeta had his sights aimed right at the center of Goku's body. Goku was kind of off, having his crosshairs more at Vegeta's legs. Vegeta gets the full bonus here of 10% for hitting Goku dead center while Goku was off (if they were both dead center or both way off there would be zero factor here).
Final result:
Goku's factors = +15% timing
Vegeta's factors = +25% better targetting, +15% higher % of max PL, +10% for better aim on hit
Goku's total = 15% vs. Vegeta's total = 50% DIFFERENCE = +35% for Vegeta
RESULT = Vegeta does 35% of some set maximum head on damage total (say the max is 40%) and some maximum amount of knockback.
Vegeta does 35% *40% = 14% damage to Goku and Goku is knocked back 35% of whatever a reasonable max amount of knockback is. No idea how far that should be, only been playing the mod for 2 days
There are other good factors that could be thrown in or used instead of some of the ones above, or much better numbers but you get the idea. The main points i wanted to make were that I really thing how long you had your enemy in your red crosshair sights should be a strong factor, and there should be several factors that play into the result of a head-on, not just one variable. You could even have some token automatic trade a few punches animations done before the result, just for asthetics while doing the math
I've never played 1.0 so sorry I can't make any comparisons there. And if there are restrictions about the mod that I don't know about that makes these ideas stupid sorry in advance. I'm real new to the mod hehe. But I think most of the above mentioned stuff and other timing factors could be fairly easy to implement in the code. Gotta say tho incredible job with the mod. I had no idea it would be this fun. Great music selection too.
I also don't think this, or any other factor should be a hands down win to a head-on collision. I think just using ping, or just PL or just any one factor to decide an instant win is always going to be abusable. A few factors at least should decide the result if we're going for an instant balanced decision. One formula might a combination of what I mentioned above with the counter variable difference adding say up to 50% advantage, factor in each players current percentage of PL (not actual PL amount which would make it unfair to those with lower starting amounts) with perhaps a 10% bonus to this % if the char is transformed all adding to up to a 20% advantage from a higher PL percentage, factor in up to say a 20% advantage from who had better timing on the right click (it's too easy just being able to hold right click the whole time while swooping). There's up to 10% left which could maybe be factored by whoever was swooping longer or maybe (I have no idea if the collision detection is advanced enough for this) up to 10% bonus to whomever was closest to having their sights dead center on their opponents core at time of contact. All of this stuff could be combined to create a certain amount of damage/pushback done depending on how much advantage the winner of the collision had. Below could be an example...
Player 1 = Goku, Player 2 = Vegeta
Goku swoops at Vegeta first, but sloppily and doesn't really zero in well until last second. Vegeta teleports a bit, gets Goku in his sights and swoops later but keeping Goku dead on in his sights.
At the time they meet Goku had Vegeta in his sights for 0.8 seconds, Vegeta had Goku for 1.4. A 50% advantage would go to someone who's opponent didnt' even really get a good look at him, so for this about half the length Vegeta gets a 25% factor out of 50%.
At the time they hit Goku has about 50% of his max PL and Vegeta has about 80% BUT is transformed so it counts like a 90%. Pretty good difference, give Vegeta about 15% out of 20% factor for this one.
Goku has almost perfectly timed his right click, while Vegeta was a bit early. For numbers sake say Goku was .05 secs late of a perfect timing while Vegeta was .2 secs early. A perfect timing probably should have been right when the two models would first touch. Give Goku about 15% out of 20% for timing.
At time of contact, Vegeta had his sights aimed right at the center of Goku's body. Goku was kind of off, having his crosshairs more at Vegeta's legs. Vegeta gets the full bonus here of 10% for hitting Goku dead center while Goku was off (if they were both dead center or both way off there would be zero factor here).
Final result:
Goku's factors = +15% timing
Vegeta's factors = +25% better targetting, +15% higher % of max PL, +10% for better aim on hit
Goku's total = 15% vs. Vegeta's total = 50% DIFFERENCE = +35% for Vegeta
RESULT = Vegeta does 35% of some set maximum head on damage total (say the max is 40%) and some maximum amount of knockback.
Vegeta does 35% *40% = 14% damage to Goku and Goku is knocked back 35% of whatever a reasonable max amount of knockback is. No idea how far that should be, only been playing the mod for 2 days
There are other good factors that could be thrown in or used instead of some of the ones above, or much better numbers but you get the idea. The main points i wanted to make were that I really thing how long you had your enemy in your red crosshair sights should be a strong factor, and there should be several factors that play into the result of a head-on, not just one variable. You could even have some token automatic trade a few punches animations done before the result, just for asthetics while doing the math
I've never played 1.0 so sorry I can't make any comparisons there. And if there are restrictions about the mod that I don't know about that makes these ideas stupid sorry in advance. I'm real new to the mod hehe. But I think most of the above mentioned stuff and other timing factors could be fairly easy to implement in the code. Gotta say tho incredible job with the mod. I had no idea it would be this fun. Great music selection too.
i think that you shuld have some other power source when you hit someone you gain some "experience"
if you dont hit or kill people over time this will go down, when its high you gain some speed, and if you have more of you're current power level and more experience (or just a alot more power/experience then you're opponent)
You win the fight..
//SOME REALLY KEWL GOOD IDEA GUY(ME)
if you dont hit or kill people over time this will go down, when its high you gain some speed, and if you have more of you're current power level and more experience (or just a alot more power/experience then you're opponent)
You win the fight..
//SOME REALLY KEWL GOOD IDEA GUY(ME)
ive heard a lot muggin about the melee fighting (i personally dont really like it cuz i get killed when some1 just hitted me once and then he can kill me with ease) but i dont really think there is something really wrong about it only for that little thing i just dont like it and thats something personal but the rest is ok if you would ask me
greetz crus
i just dont like it and thats something personal but the rest is ok if you would ask me greetz crus
yeah well its nothing wrong with it, but it could be bether...
_________________________________________________
"i think that you shuld have some other power source when you hit someone you gain some "experience"
if you dont hit or kill people over time this will go down, when its high you gain some speed, and if you have more of you're current power level and more experience (or just a alot more power/experience then you're opponent)
You win the fight..
"
_________________________________________________
"i think that you shuld have some other power source when you hit someone you gain some "experience"
if you dont hit or kill people over time this will go down, when its high you gain some speed, and if you have more of you're current power level and more experience (or just a alot more power/experience then you're opponent)
You win the fight..
"
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I would say the Melee is a little buggy but it's not that bad. I would like better animations. Honestly who can really role that far when they are punched:no:
here's just an idea i had the other day, what if you kept the swoop system that we have at the moment, but if they block your melee or you are close to them with melee selected, u go into a similar sort of fighting that you have in "enter the matrix", u have a punch and a kick button (primary and secondry fire) and ur standard block button, and ur direction controls (forward backward, turn/strafe left and right) would move you around, but for this to work i recon u should see the characters in a profile mode. To exit this mode u simpily move away from the other chartacter completely or u cud just kick their ass.............
tell me if im nuts but i thought it wud be cool.....
.............tell me if im nuts but i thought it wud be cool.....