Melee suggestions

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

Agreed. That's really the only way to make it fair--by giving the players direct control over it. That being said though...what if we took the limitation off of swooping?

Here's an idea that just came into my head...I haven't thought it out, so feel free to rape any flaws it may have.

We implement the swooping time factor, as stated above. If two people hit within 100 degrees in front of each other (the block radius, maybe a bit bigger), they both fly backward in the ass-end of the recovery animation and each get half a melee hit's worth of damage or so (maybe less).

Then, we take the cap off of swoops (or make it bigger, I suppose). Swooping would be changed, so that while you hold down primary, you swoop...and when you let go, you stop (instead of a click, swoop a set distance at a set ki rate, stop). So you can choose a quick dash or a long bomb from across the map if you have the ki.

If possible, once past the normal melee swoop's range, this should burn ki a little faster, if balance is required.

Oh yeah, in the head on hits, if your PL is significantly higher than the other guys, you could recover from the double-impact slightly faster to reward the player for maintaining his PL against the server's average.

Otherwise...it stays as it is. What do you guys think?

 

[MyStiC AsCenT]

Well i am thinking maybe if you took out the minimum distance to swoop. That way if you are in close range you can still swoop to evade or swoop to attack.

*edit* my bad SaiyanPrideXIX i didn't see your post, cause i said basically the same thing as you. But yeah, i agree to what you said =D

 

[XxCronoxX]

Originally posted by |X|trem[3]
For head ons, I still think it should be based on ping, because basiong it on pl, in fact, is also unfair. ( For instance: A server admin starts the game and locks up the server. He uses ctdb mode, he gains like 300.000.000 pl and then pwn everyone head on, not to mention his 0 ping ). I did here there is a pl leveling system, but that still woldnt get you near the pl of a 300.000.00 pl'ist lol.

*Im still thinking*

The whole idea of pings isnt too good because an admin can run a server and he'll have the lowest ping so he'll win head ons anyway. Basing attacks on a person's connection is a horrible idea. Power level is better and if an admin locks up the server and lames his ping, dont play there =\, simple as that.

 

[Halorin]

Here's how I think melee should be handled.. Again.

Melee should not be either based on ping or ki, as they are just too circumstancial and too easily abused. So what should it be derived from? Reaction time. And how can that be rated? With a concept of momentum and swoop distance. Like Gump said, and I said in a lesser degree earlier on, speed should be built up as the swoop progresses, but the distance of how long you swooped should be what determines the winner of head ons. Basing it on speed will put characters like Trunks and Piccolo at a constant disadvantage since they are some of the slowest in the game. But the person who has swooped first has shown they either have a better vantage point or quicker reflexes, and I think that should be rewarded over your connection or ki pool. This would make the second swooper know to avoid a head on and evade, hoping to land a hit on the side. This would promote better play in melee, ultimately making us all better players if you ask me. But this I think would only work with the old method of hit detection, because I see headons moreso than anything in 1.1, mostly because it takes extreme amounts of accuracy to land a hit in the side.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

If we tack your idea and my idea together, we may have something, Halorin.

Hey, yeah...this might work. Cause check it out:

Guy A and Guy B swoop. Guy A swooped first, so he has the advantage. Knowing this, Guy B stops his swoop and teleports to dodge (or uses swoop to fly away, etc). While Guy A stops himself to turn around and attack again, Guy B begins a swoop...giving him the momentum advantage against Guy A, who must in turn dodge. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Basically that forces you to do alll of the things that make a great melee battle. If we mix this concept into my idea it could be good. What do you guys think?

 

[AudioSlave]

i think that rocks, i brushed that idea on page one, think it was already mentioned before also, but that is definately the best way to od this, the player who commits to the attack and gains mommentum should be the victor

 

[Abe Froman]

It's been said before, but the best way to decide head ons in whoever swoops first wins. This would take care of "stand offs", and really force people to learn how to hit from the side. It will also force people to learn how to control thier swoop, instead of just setting up head ons with teleports.

That being said, you would also have to tweak beams to compensate, or you'll be making a game of all melee. I think a good balance is have beams not only stop swoop, but make someone lose thier target. Stopping swoop does no good if the guy is stopped for 1/2 second, then keeps right on charging. Make him retarget, then come after you. I'm all for melee, but not ALL melee.

 

[Shuyin]

Hmm yeah that could work.
Then when you swooped you wouldnt keep getting knocked back from a simple quick swoop from the person your chasing.
They could only block or teleport to stop it(which is like how melee is on dbz)

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

The beams now also drop you completely out of flight, so they sort of have a good time buying effect on melee.

Honestly, I think this could be a pretty good system. What does everyone have to say about it?

 

[luther349]

yea the mele in 1.0 was pretty good until people lerned how to abuse it. now onto 1.1 its simply bad knothing agesnt the game the beams are perfect. the mele needs to be copleaty oberhald personaly. it shouldent be 1 hit go flying if you even played budiki for ps2 is had a cool mele system even thow they called is burster something like that would be alot better and alot easer to use.

 

[MR GUMP!!]

I think who ever has been swooping longest shoudl definatally win but i think there should be other reasons for long swooping instead of just winning head ons, basically as i said before, longer you swoop faster you go, faster you go more damage you do. Yes swooping from long range is easy to dodge and counter, so i think that there should at least be some advantage of it. In the show they dont just tele spam to get 5 feet away then swoop, they swoop from long range to gain momentum and put ki into thier punch. Maybe even make it controlable like holding right click puts ki into your swoop (aka u go faster and do more dmg). Might be a little too advanced for a simple fix but all in all i think it would rock.

 

[Abe Froman]

Actaully, I have seen many times where someone has been hit by a beam and they simply stop swooping. They dont fall, they just stop. Then they start right back up and the beamer gets meleed. It's happened to me before, I got hit by a beam, I just stopped then clicked again and sent the beamer flying. Probablay bugged or something...

 

[Darkside]

i dont really think there is a fair way to make the melee so that everyone likes it but it could be made that instead of holding rightclick you have to click it in order to make the hit... so then in a head on whoever timed the hit the best will win

 

[AudioSlave]

nah, the first to swoop thing is definately the best idea, any of the creators, what do you think??

 

[ruri]

I always thought getting rid of the lock on would be interesting...
Making primary be the swoop itself and then you'd just have to click secondary right before making contact.

Just like when you wanted to melee someone else who was around you without swooping you just go up to them and attack.

It may not solve for the whole how do you decide who actually gets the hit off, but it would actually have to learn to control more, I mean it would be kind of like a beam in a way, you don't get a lock on with that...

And I mean if you really did have to have something to decide who hit who, couldn't you just make it who ever had more of their ki bar filled? I mean the PL wouldn't make much of a difference there... you'd just have to make sure before you went off to melee you had full KI cause if you think about it, if you were in any fight the person with less KI reguardless of their PL if they had no KI they'd not be able to do anything...

Just my ramblings...if any of this was covered already forgive me I only skimmed the other pages.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

Well Ruri, that's what the game does now, and unfortunately because of the way the PL works, it's encouraging people to not swoop and "turtle up" so that they can guarantee a hit. If you get into a fight with someone who has even as little as .3 million PL higher than you, he is able to do more. But the real problem comes in when swooping, because say if I were to swoop at you. All you have to do is teleport, and then hit me...it takes less ki now to teleport than to swoop I think.

In any case, I still think the "swoop the longest/doublehit if nearly equal" solution seems like the best idea. That way it is still possible for low level players to fight high level players.

See basically now, if you have full ki, you are invincible. No one can hit you. So it encourages players to stand still, chagre up, and just sit there and hold block. Also now, if you were say a spawn-level Gohan againt a spawn-level Buu youw ill never touch the guy. Ever. And once an enemy ascends, no one int he server can kill him because he can teleport 15 times and still swoop with more ki than a non-ascended character, making him impossible to beat (well almost...there are ways, of course, but it's really not fair).

Are you the Ruri who played against me on PT a few times? If you are, you know that I'm not exactly the best but I'm not a pushover either. So what would I tell you if, at 1.2 million PL with Goku, I fought a 1.35 or so Goku, and did not hit him once the whole game with melee? Because PL gain on death is off he will never really gain more for killing weaklings, but anyone stronger than him will on him so he has no choice. See why it's a problem?

(If this IS the Ruri who played against me, we have to play again! We had the best fights! Hehe)

 

[Madd Dog]

well the thing i dont like about the currnet head on system is it promotes people hanging back and constantly charging, not going nuts with teleprts and swoops, maby just have head on charges end in the melee flash sprite and have a randomiser that decides if perosn 1 goes flying, person 2 goes flying or they both end up next to each other and can do whatever they like (asif they punched each others fisyts as they do many many times in the show)
well thats my quick fix, not to well though out but its simple, quick and i think can be added relativly fast if they ever decide to bring out the 1.15 patch.

 

[fyrye]

What about the current block warp counter attacks? Seems to be the most annoying of all in my opinion.

 

[[UCB]Hi_There!]

-The problem with using length of swoop is that it effectively removes head-ons as a countering strategy. Swooping in response to a swoop is doomed to failure.

-The problem with using PL is that it essentially gives someone with higher PL the ability to counter anyone weaker that he happens to see, with no regard for how difficult it might be to counter. Swoopers need to have some chance of succeeding.

-The problem with using ki is that it's subject to various forms of spamming. Using the inverse of current ki requires more strategy but seems to make it work in a way you wouldn't expect.

I propose a combination of time swooping and PL.
********************
(swooper's PL * C(swooper's time swooping))
----------------------------------------------------------
((target's PL) * (target's time swooping))

I included "C" as some function or constant for weighting the attacker's time swooping (to deal with excessive PL difference, if desired).
********************
Results greater than or equal to one favor the attacker, others the target.

It works on several levels: People with higher power levels should find it easier to counter swoopers, but at the same time, something needs to differentiate between differing difficulties in countering the swoops.

The question is, what is a more difficult-to-counter swoop? I would still agree that ones that start further away have more force behind them. It's up to the target to start swooping as soon as they can to better their chances in the head on (if that's what they want).
Note that this still rewards reflexes, because the target's reflexes need to start them swooping as quickly as they can if they hope to counter successfully. The PL people get a boost (but not too much). The swoopers still have a reasonable chance but they have to plan their attacks from a distance if they want to be assured of success.
Any comments?

 

[NTK.neo]

I do NOT care as long as there are MELEE STRUGGLES.