Melee suggestions

[yogosaki]

I have an idea, keep it the same as now but put something like a .5 second delay between attempts at melee (so it can't be scripted with my new system) and make it so the challenge is in the timing, it would take a while to get down but only allow the person to click (it fires once on left mouseclick DOWN) instead of holding while in a swoop... also, the range would have to be increased a bit for anyone to ever hit anyone else... no key combos or fast clicking as that can be scripted quite easily and I don't think anyone wants there to be absolutely now way to hit scripters...

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

It's a nice idea, but guys, we're looking for a simple fix, not a struggle system. Struggling is planned for 1.2, not 1.1 or 1.15. Just a simple fix until the advanced system is complete.

 

[AscendantSaiyan]

explain the collision system a bit more...

allow boasting when closer to a person not right next to them but closer,
reduce the counter delay a little maybe 0.6 or 0.7 it would make a difference,

i'll play more and come back with more. As for the head on's......

i think this could be solved if the collision detection was made more accurate. At the moment you have to kick anywere near the person to hit them make it more acurate if you aim at the person then you can hit them closer to a dead hit and u win... of course this could give way to aim bots.

i can't think of a better way ATM but i think this would work (assuming no cheats) then its entirely up to the player to make himself more accurate even if collision areas arent reduced then still the most accurate wins.

This might sound easy but when your spinning and looping around the place accuracy can be pure luck *bam* thats what your looking for something that can't be abused and that happens so fast that everytime the outcome can be diiferent.

As for the aim bot cheats.... i can't fix that.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Guys the counter delay is .8 seconds... that is *not* high at all. You can almost counter as fast as you could in 1.0, but the difference is that the person swooping has time to get out of the way now.

Aim bots would be an issue. The goal isn't to make it harder to hit your opponents... the reason PCJoe changed the hit detection system was to make it ::easier:: to hit each other. Obviously it didn't work out quite as planned. Either way, aiming detection like that would be really tough to implament. It would require client side prediction, for one, and it would require the player to have reflexes that are faster than human unlesss he was moving in a straight line.

 

[Darkside]

didn't they test to see if it would hit easier??

 

[fyrye]

Read through a few of them and thought id give my two cents, its late and i have to get up at 4am..

Quick Fix:
Idea One:
Rock Paper Scissors style meele
Press a button while in swoop vs the other players button to descide hit. Tie would look to see who hit the button first or who swooped first.

Idea Two:
Percntage of Ki/Health/PL used to calculate winning meele.

Idea Three:
Who Ever hit the button first.

Advanced Meele System:
Idea one:
Head ons rock, paper, scissors. Press an alternate key when in swoop. Tie resulting in a PS "throw down technique"
Non-head on would be headbutt, kick, punch or somthing else.
Blocking same paper rock scissors until a button is pushed the attacker kicks punches etc defender has 2 seconds to push button or gets pummled. (no more block/counter technique)

Idea two:
PL base, SS should be able to beat 600,000pl players.. it wouldnt make sence if a 600,000pl player. A combination of amount in percentage of health/ki/pl IE: the healthier more refreshed more powerful player would win the melee.

Idea three:
Power struggle based melees with the ability to choose attack with a button. Including toss up lunge to help along combos.

Idea four:
Combination of the three?

Reasonings/Dislikes/Appologies
* Idea One sounds familiar to me and appologies if I am biting off another similar system already out there.
* Ping wouldn't be fair considering 56k vs T3. Location and ListenServer Hosts.
* In the show PL was a big issue; Vegetta always trying to be better/stronger/faster then Goku. As well making the difference in battles.
* I like the teleport but wish it was more accurate such as a warp to target command and a seperate tele command (given you have enough ki or target is in range)
* I would like to see long animated melee fights and hate when I am jumped by 4 players. You have no chance no matter what PL you have vs them.
An adult gohan that actually meets the gohan on the show, "rage/desperation attacks or PL boost" he just seems weak, unless you have other plans for him already..

Thanx for listening.

 

[Chitenga]

A good melee system?

Try DBZ Legends melee..

You all ready have 1/2 of it coded. (the part where you sent people flying)

Just add when you swoop and hit they start a melee struggle (who played PSX DBZ Legends know what im talking about) where they punch each other alot,here Both player have a change to win even if you where the one that swooped.
when you start to hit each other you can either evade (you lose a decent amount of ki each evaded Punch) or punch (if hit enemy lose about 1-2 Hp each hit (1-2 hp since its happening very fast)) the struggle bar rises a good amount after each hit.if the strugle bar reaches the red are you can send the enemy flying.if ran out of ki in the middle of a Melee Struggle you get sent out flying.

its rather simple.

1.Swoop hold right click
2.enter struggle
3.Hold left click to punch (both players can do it at the same time)(if its a tie both players are sent flying) or hold right click to evade (you lose ki after each evaded punch) (if both evade at the same time melee struggle is over)
4.the winning player sents enemy flying

 

[AudioSlave]

thats sounds kinda good, but would prob need more options, but it isn't a quick fix :-\

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

Well I would kind of like to see a "melee powerstruggle" Say when 2 players fly and hit eachother at the same time, they become locked to eachother, and the powerstruggle bar comes up. They would throw punches and kicks at eachother and the winner is the one who wins the powerstruggle ( by putting putting more ki into the struggle) The punches and kicks thrown wouldn't be done by the player himself, but an animation. (You know like in the show, when they keep repeating the same animation cels over and over again)

I'm pretty sure the only hard thing about that would be the animations, coding would be a breeze (I think).

 

[Nameless_Fred]

Prepare to read lots:

Well, as I see it, the best quick option would be to go with the distance idea. This way there would be none of the current stand offs as the player who attacks first will win in a head on. This will also mean that as soon as a player sees another begin to attack they'll defend, since they cant win with a head on. This *should* promote tactical manouvering etc as there is no longer a simple option to avoid an attacker, and it could create interesting see-saw battles, with one player defending, then attacking, then defending etc.

However, there should be a cutt-off point where distance doesn't matter, what i mean is that if two players swoop at literally (or almost) the same time they should both be thrown back with no damage. Think about it, it would be annoying to loose a head on over a few millermetres difference in distance.

One problem might be that everyone will be desperate to get the first attack, whether thats better than stand offs is for you to decide.

I suppose the less ki idea is okay, and its an interesting idea, but surely it would still be easy to abuse, as one player could just waste ki and wait for another player to attack and then attack head on. Although its different to the current system, it still seems to have less to do with tactics to me.

Anyway thats my two pence (good old blighty), although it seems more like half a million pounds considering how much i wrote.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Originally posted by GhostfaceKillah
Well I would kind of like to see a "melee powerstruggle" Say when 2 players fly and hit eachother at the same time, they become locked to eachother, and the powerstruggle bar comes up. They would throw punches and kicks at eachother and the winner is the one who wins the powerstruggle ( by putting putting more ki into the struggle) The punches and kicks thrown wouldn't be done by the player himself, but an animation. (You know like in the show, when they keep repeating the same animation cels over and over again)

I'm pretty sure the only hard thing about that would be the animations, coding would be a breeze (I think).

Answer is no. Read above to figure out why (not just my reponse to it).

 

[Darkside]

yea i posted that already... A quick fix for head on melee could be possibly to knock both players back and distribute the damage evenly as someone suggested before, or possibly take out head on melee and make it so that they would just cancel eachother out. this isn't the greatest idea, but it would lead to better melee fighters if u couldn't do headon, they would be forced to learn to do side attacks and whatnot

 

[Nameless_Fred]

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting the idea i was just agreeing with it.

I also didn't suggest the attacks *always* cancel if there is a head on, only if both players swoop at near enough the same time. If one player swoops before another however, the player who swoops first will win the head on. Read above why i think this is best (if you're really that interested).

ie, if player 1 swoops first then player 2 swoops later, player 1 will win the head on and hit player 2 as normal, but if both players swoop at the same, or very nearly the same time, the attacks cancel and both are thrown back (with no damage).

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

Originally posted by Sonic Boyster
Answer is no. Read above to figure out why (not just my reponse to it).

Alright, I didn't exactly read the posts above me, I just posted, to much reading.

 

[Shuyin]

Whoa what alot of crazy idea here
hmm, i think sonic boysters idea was good, but i have my own crazy idea.
Now the idea of ping seems unfair for head ons, unless the success of melee was determined by ping number
so like, the player with the number 3 or 7 in his last digit of the ping would win the head ons..
Not sure if you can do that, but i'd be good if you could.

**erm actually i just thought, the host has 0 ping argh >_<**

 

[MR GUMP!!]

ok simple fix i think, longer you swoop faster you go, faster you go more dmg you do, who ever is going faster wins head ons... Simple and i think it would make people swoop from long range intending to hit, and you cant just wait until the person is 3 feet away and win because you have more ki...

Also sonic i truly dont like the idea of making who ever has less ki wins... It simply makes no sence, and would cause people to just spam tele to waist ki. The idea of dbz is to conserve your ki, not bindly waste it faster than the other person.

Also making a melee strugle happen would result in the exact same thing that happens now. think about it, who ever has more ki at the begining of the strugle wins...

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Originally posted by MR GUMP!!

Also sonic i truly dont like the idea of making who ever has less ki wins... It simply makes no sence, and would cause people to just spam tele to waist ki. The idea of dbz is to conserve your ki, not bindly waste it faster than the other person.

You would actually spam tele and waste all of your ki to win a head on swoop? And what happens when you run out and fall helpessly to the ground? If you are willing to take that risk then that's fine. The idea of counter-balance is that the person with less ki is more vulnarable in every other concievable respect. His only advantage with my system would be head on swoops.

 

[Deman]

Alright after thinking for a bit, I figured out a slightly different idea than Sonic's less ki = win idea. How about whoever has been in the swoop the longest?

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

I like Nameless Fred and Mr Gump's ideas the most, mainly because the flaws aren't as apparent as the other ones. I think I favor the "longer swooper wins" idea a little bit more, because obviously that person has expended more ki and, like someone earlier had said, whoever uses the most energy should be able to get the hit.

But I also really like the idea of both players being knocked back (simul-hits are somewhat a staple of dragonball z's bigger battles, aren't they?) when they both have a similar swoop time & energy consumption (and the window should be medium, not too big and not too small of a gap).

Sonic, I really don't like your suggestion for a simple reason: it rewards playing sloppily. I am ALWAYS recharging my ki as much as I can so I can get maximum swoop/teleport/beaming capabilities. So you mean to tell me that you are going to punish me for conserving my ki by making some careless tele-whore/kame-whore win a head on attack every time?

It would be different if it was dangerous but as long as he is within a swoop's worth of ki remaining, he will be unhittable by careful, ki-conserving players like myself. The thing is, the whole game encourages KEEPING YOUR KI HIGH. When you get into a struggle it can mean life and death; when you need to finish off an opponent, it can also be an emergency. So I lose those capabilities in order to get the hit...and whoever swoops more will win, because they lose ki from swooping.

It would lamerize melee. You'd have two guys trying to fight and deliberately not recharging, and four swoops in, one of them begins to plummet to the earth and descends, and then the other guy POUNDS HIM into the ground.

I have an idea...it's taking shape in my mind now, but I'm work, and I can't give the details of it now. Talk later.

 

[Nameless_Fred]

The swoop-time idea seems to be what a few people have said now, I think it makes the most sense.