Make beams quick and greater combo potential!

[Dokutayuu]

Hey all,

I've been thinking why beams are so rarely used (well, non-spamming uses).

1) They take a long time to charge.
2) They move slowly (compared to players).
3) Aim is usually poor.

Minimum charge time for beam would be reduced by quite a bit meaning that if a player wanted to prevent it, they'd have to decide whether to attack or evade quickly. However, once a beam becomes fire-able the charge bar returns to 1.2.3 speed.

Beam/Blast speed would also increase to roughly 3x swoop (or what the team feel like) speed. Enough to give the victim less than a second to dodge at mid distance. However to compensate the beam would be harder to turn and players are no longer allowed to detonate their beam meaning that if it misses, you're in trouble. Oh, and the usual decrease blast radius suggestion.

Gen beams would have to become virtually instant and would be easier to turn and would move quicker than signature beams along with costing less ki. Of course, all of this would require tweaking. A slight auto-aim feature may be needed (optional in the menu).

And now for the combo part!

I believe weapon slots 7 and 8 are not used. Perhaps players could choose from the attacks their character has and assign them to 7 and 8 but with the ability to only select primary or alternate fire.

Eg

A player could set

Weapon Slot 7: Pri= Basic melee hit Secondary Fire= Gen beam
Weapon Slot 8: Pri= Signature move (of the character used Secondary Fire= Gen ball

This would allow players to have the attacks they want at immediate disposal but would have to choose carefully.

Have fun reading, typing it wasn't!

 

[ESCachuli]

i agree in the part of making beams better, because in 1.2.3, everybody only attack with melee, and is boring, repetitive and anoying. I think if what you want is a melee mod, make a tekken one, but in DBZ, beams hase the same importance as melee, or even more.

 

[Skyrider]

i agree in the part of making beams better, because in 1.2.3, everybody only attack with melee, and is boring, repetitive and anoying. I think if what you want is a melee mod, make a tekken one, but in DBZ, beams hase the same importance as melee, or even more.

That's because ESF was mostly meant to be Melee only. Do you see them using beams all the time in the show? Not really.. They mostly use Melee. The beams within ESF is an extra. It would be very boring if they only used beams within ESF.

 

[Grega]

No thats because beams are hated in 1.2.3 They are to strong. A good player using beams is basically immortal by just using genbeam. Add signiture shots and you have people killing half the server with 1 or 2 shots.

The beams are not used because they were useless. It was because the server admins and lots of players came together and said beams are to strong.

I mean you say melee isnt fun. But whats the fun in getting killed by an explosion that took down the 3 people next to you just cause the beams are overpowered. Ofcourse only people with skill can actually spam beams good enough to become untoutchable. But by using melee others still have a chance to strike back and not just get killed all the time with no chance for retaliation.

What beams need is a small blast radius and lots of power on the direct hit. Allso the beam jump splash damage has to be taken off. Meaning if you beamjump there is no explosion. To balance that out they should get a faster charge and a smaller KI drain.

 

[Plakman]

i still think my suggestion about powerstruggle to beamstruggle apllies here a little bit to

though beams are charged way to slow compared to the shows
i also think the charge may be speeded 2x faster.
but the ki drained away should also be 2x faster.
1 beam fully charge mostly take up to 90% of your total ki?
i think this would be cool since it's useless to use beams in a melee battle except those gen beams wich are pretty annoying though.

faster charging would be usefull as a trick. also explosion radius should be smaller and Very weak. and the damage done by a beam should only be effective on a player itself not when it hit's a floor 10meter next to you -_-

 

[Dokutayuu]

I mean you say melee isnt fun. But whats the fun in getting killed by an explosion that took down the 3 people next to you just cause the beams are overpowered. Ofcourse only people with skill can actually spam beams good enough to become untoutchable. But by using melee others still have a chance to strike back and not just get killed all the time with no chance for retaliation.

What beams need is a small blast radius and lots of power on the direct hit. Allso the beam jump splash damage has to be taken off. Meaning if you beamjump there is no explosion. To balance that out they should get a faster charge and a smaller KI drain.

I agree the the blast radius is too big currently and beamjumping should certainly not have an explosion. The power of beams could also be toned down.

Melee should be the main method of attack still and I don't have a problem with it but beams are currently nearly impossible to incorporate into a heated fight without disrupting the flow.

P.S This thread has a secondary suggestion, any thoughts?

 

[Grega]

Melee should be the main method of attack

That im against. ESF is not a fighting game. All features should be the main aspect.

The problem with beams is they are to strong in 1.2

Beams should be made more balanced compared to melee so they get an equal share in the gameplay.


As for the secondary suggestion. Previous attack button?

 

[Dokutayuu]

As for the secondary suggestion. Previous attack button?

Touché.

Skyrider has a point though, ESF is mainly melee and to a degree should remain that way. However, beams do need a chance to get into gameplay more frequently. Somewhere between the way it was in 1.1 and 1.2 but leaned towards 1.2 though.

 

[Snowm@n]

Beams with less blast radius but more concentrated damage is the way to go, its just anoying when you are fighting 2 other guys and a thirth guy who is 5 Km above shoots a full charged final shine and kills them all. And preventing mid air explosions would also end with this cases mostly.

...Gen beams would have to become virtually ...Of course, all of this would require tweaking. A slight auto-aim feature may be needed (optional in the menu)....

There is already a pursuiting feature implemented, its even better than auto-aim.

 

[Disguise]

Fixing beams is one thing, and changing how ki attacks interact with melee is another. Yet the confusion of seeing both as the same problem, I believe, stems from how dependent one is on the other.

I think to balance beams, it depends first on how they interact with melee. If Ki attacks are poorly implemented with the melee system, you're going to see beams being imbalanced, being either too overpowered or too underpowered, regardless of what you change.

The way to fix this is to first fix how melee and ki attacks interact, and then tweak the rest later.

In a math equation, you need a set variable before you can find the values of the rest.

So here's my theory on fixing this problem:

How long is the opponent vulnerable for?
Set the length of time the opponent will be vulnerable for, say 5 seconds. The length of time they are down for will now help determine the speed beams travel and how long they take to charge.

How often will the opponent be vulnerable?
Say this type of vulnerability which a big beam can be used occurs 4 times in the average fight. Now you can find how much damage the beam will do, and how much Ki it will take up.

The last thing you change is the blast radius, once these other factors have been concluded.

And finally, how will transing effect this?
Adding more Ki will change the Ki attack consumption rate, and added stamina will effect how often vulnerability occurs.

Mind boggling how many factors, scenarios, and numbers you need to test. :shocked:

I have some ideas on how it SHOULD be, but don't we all?