Latest ver. SuperMAN vs. Super SAIYAN...A match?

[Zeonix]

I've already shown them all of that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman's_powers_and_abilities

 

[SS2 Vegeto]

Wikipedia didn't cover a lot his his actuall physical feats however, rather than just his specific abilities and capacities.

And inserted a lot of that, to further paint a picture of what someone possessing those "abilities" and "capacities" is capable of.

Any counter argument made from that, is then pretty easy to follow through on and nullify for me.

 

[Kreshi]

Pre-Crisis Powers: In addition to Super-Hypnotism and his super-voice, pre-crisis Superman had several powers that were rarely seen but mentioned from time to time (many were one-time powers that were promptly forgotten about). This led to the joke that his real power was making up powers as he needs them. They included Super-Aim, Super-Hunches, Super-Mathematics, Super-Landscaping, Super-Weaving, Super-Kisses, Super-Friction, the ability to make Super-Cakes though not necessarily with Super-Baking, and when Superboy was transformed into a woman s/he temporarily had Super-Woman's Intuition. Several texts describe Superman as possessing super-senses which, among other things, enable him to sense the presence of an electrical discharge, cosmic disturbances, differentiate metal simply by touch, or sense the close proximity of Lori Lemaris. Pre-Crisis Superman could eat any form of matter (And a virtually unlimited amount thereof).

hmm very interesting...

Super speed: The earliest Superman ran at a mere 30 miles per hour, but quickly became much faster by the 1950s....
....
...
...
power here, power there...
...
...

But the most interesting sentence was:

All of these powers were either removed post-crisis or never mentioned again.

So that?s how Superman?s powers really work...

copyright wikipedia.

It seems the authors do whatever they want with Superman...

 

[Zeonix]

The problem is, they don't know anything about Superman, so no matter what you tell them, you're wrong. It doesn't matter what you show Kreshi. Goku has a powerlevel of 2 billion and Superman has a powerlevel of apple. Thats all that matters. We're on page 8 because of this problem.

@ Kreshi: Yes, and thats why Goku can never win. He is only capable of what he's already done, while Superman is always being reinvented.

 

[Kreshi]

The problem is, they don't know anything about Superman, so no matter what you tell them, you're wrong. It doesn't matter what you show Kreshi. Goku has a powerlevel of 2 billion and Superman has a powerlevel of apple. Thats all that matters. We're on page 8 because of this problem.

not only because of that... Superman has 1000 different versions of his strength, abilities......
Damn authors...

EDIT:
ya, you are right here.

 

[Zeonix]

Since Goku is allowed to ascend as many times as he wants, we're obviously going by the strongest form of Superman, not the one that ran 30 mph or was somehow punched hard enough by spiderman to knock him a few feet away.

 

[Kreshi]

Since Goku is allowed to ascend as many times as he wants, we're obviously going by the strongest form of Superman, not the one that ran 30 mph or was somehow punched hard enough by spiderman to knock him a few feet away.

What sense does it make to compare any charakte to a godlike being? I can?t accept superman as a hero who can cross dimensions and meet the REAL god... that?s just too stupid =P... The superman in my eyes is the superman with the power of Krillin. BTW how strong is superman NOW? Just curios... (i am not interested in this comparison anymore, because it?s useless comparing a always reinvented charakter to a charakter who is always the same...)

 

[Zeonix]

See, thats the problem right there. You want to compare the strongest version of Goku to the weakest version of Superman. That doesn't make sense. If you want to compare the weakest version of Superman to the weakest version of Goku, fine. Don't give one guy the overwhelming advantage just so you'll be right.

I hate Superman because I remember him at his peak. To me, he'll always be at that level.

 

[Kreshi]

See, thats the problem right there. You want to compare the strongest version of Goku to the weakest version of Superman. That doesn't make sense. If you want to compare the weakest version of Superman to the weakest version of Goku, fine. Don't give one guy the overwhelming advantage just so you'll be right.

I hate Superman because I remember him at his peak. To me, he'll always be at that level.

how strong is he now?


I didn?t want to compare him to his weakest version. I think his average version is Krillin-like.

 

[J-Dude]

The way it sounds, you're clinging to this "Silver-Age" Superman who is essentially obsolete, whereas the TOPIC name infers to the LATEST version of Superman. I dunno, that sounds more than a little cheap. Okay, we've established that Silver-Age Superman is a step below God.

Fine, let's move on.

What about the other, later revised versions? They don't change a character unless they think that change betters him/her, so a lot of the old logic is out the window. How's about this? DBZ was mainly the 80's right? In that case, why not match DBZ up with the Superman of the eighties? Sound fair?

 

[Optimus Prime]

According to Wikipedia, Dragonball Z premiered in 1989, and ended in 1996. So for all intensive purposes, it makes sense to compare Goku to the Superman Comics from 1989 to 1996, does it not?

Yet at the same time, it wouldn't be fair to compare Goku from episode 1, to a god-like Superman, nor would it be fair to compare SSJ3 Goku to Superman from a Comic where he seems like weak sauce.

I'd still like to see Goku stop a bullet with his eye...

 

[MC]

According to Wikipedia, Dragonball Z premiered in 1989, and ended in 1996. So for all intensive purposes, it makes sense to compare Goku to the Superman Comics from 1989 to 1996, does it not?

Yet at the same time, it wouldn't be fair to compare Goku from episode 1, to a god-like Superman, nor would it be fair to compare SSJ3 Goku to Superman from a Comic where he seems like weak sauce.

I'd still like to see Goku stop a bullet with his eye...

Goku isn't easily effected by bullets, at least in Dragon Ball. Goku got shot in the head by Bulma but was able to survive, not to mention when Launch pulled out the machine gun whenever she transformed. The latter was probably put there for comic relief.

 

[Zeonix]

And thats why we compare both characters at their absolute best. Notice how I never said Goku wasn't allowed to go SSJ4 in the fight. This is a fight to death. I expect both characters to go all out.

J-Dude: They "revised" Superman and made him weaker, and now he's back to pretty much full power. They change him based on how well the comics are selling. If you want Goku to fight the latest Superman, you're basically saying you want Goku to fight Silver Age Superman.

They weren't about to have a kid die in dragonball. I say if Goku can get knocked out by a karate chop, a bullet will go right through his eye. Maybe not his skull, but definately through his eye.

I still don't see whats so wrong about having them both fight at their strongest. Looking for ways to get around Superman's abilities is the same as saying Goku can't handle a fully-powered Superman.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

No.

Superman is limited in a lot of ways, compared to a Super Saiyan.

I think the very opposite. The fact of the matter is Superman wouldn't flinch or even feel most of the blows, whereas the Saiyans would constantly be injured during the fight, even at a high level of SSJ.

We have seen the Z fighters get exhausted many times. Superman never seems to...even if he did, a quick flight up in the sun will solve any fatigue he has.

Would be a good fight but unfortunately I think uber-invincible BS Superman would invariably win.

 

[Zeonix]

He has unlimited stamina, so no breaks needed during a fight for Superman.

 

[J-Dude]

Unlimited this, unlimited that...what are we in, Kindergarten? Superman's "Silver Age" style was designed upon such a mentality. Like I said, if the author wants somebody to be invulnerable, they will be. Invulnerability doesn't impress me. Being able to take a bad hit and keep on coming when injured, now THAT's worth reckoning. I highly disagree that the version featured in Superman Returns is as overpowered as the original. It wouldn't be difficult to see Goku pull off the same feats seen there. If Superman in that movie was truly strong enough to punch a planet to smithereens, then why didn't he give the island a healthy smacking once he brought it into orbit?

If it were Goku, yeah, I doubt he can actually lift that much if you stay canon, unless he did so as a Super Saiyan 3, and even then I'm not sure. But we all know he could have easily blasted that thing away. A nice big Kamehameha would do, strought to the surface and then detonate. Boom, mega-crater; no more crystal island.

 

[Zeonix]

He probably didn't try to punch it because being near Krypton is like living in Chernobyl 2 days after the accident, eating raw nuclear waste, drinking irradiated water and then cutting your wrists and filling it with more nuclear waste. Now take that to the 10th power. Now tell me lifting an island made of that and throwing it into space isn't impressive.

Yeah, yeah, you hate Superman for the same reasons I do. That doesn't matter. What matters is that he can kick Goku's ass because on some levels, hes more unrealistic than any character in DBZ. Then again, on other levels theres a realism in there that DBZ can't begin to touch.

I'd like to see Goku shoot a beam into a giant plastic ball of that disease that almost killed him. Then I'd like to see him breathe all of that in, and spit it into space. Thats the only way he'll understand what its like to be Superman.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

Well I still think the whole argument is moot.

Goku can be hurt, Superman pretty much can't. Even with his full power, Goku could send Supes flying through as many buildings as he wants; at the end of the day, he's still going to walk out unscathed and unphased, as well as unfatigued. Kame's won't even wrinkle his clothes; the spirit bomb would accomplish nothing; even at Super Saiyan 4 he'd probably be slightly outmatched in terms of raw strength.

Here's how that fight would go:
Goku: massive string of super-forceful blows at near light speed, closed with a brutal axhandle smash and a quick super kame.
Superman: Get up, dust off, throw one brutal punch, repeat.

As much a fan as I am of DBZ Goku in any form could never win such a fight because Supes is God Mode Personified.

 

[jblaze101]

Well I still think the whole argument is moot.

Goku can be hurt, Superman pretty much can't. Even with his full power, Goku could send Supes flying through as many buildings as he wants; at the end of the day, he's still going to walk out unscathed and unphased, as well as unfatigued. Kame's won't even wrinkle his clothes; the spirit bomb would accomplish nothing; even at Super Saiyan 4 he'd probably be slightly outmatched in terms of raw strength.

Here's how that fight would go:
Goku: massive string of super-forceful blows at near light speed, closed with a brutal axhandle smash and a quick super kame.
Superman: Get up, dust off, throw one brutal punch, repeat.

As much a fan as I am of DBZ Goku in any form could never win such a fight because Supes is God Mode Personified.

I think the only person who would stand a chance is Vegetto. Probaly because we don't know how strong Vegetto is..

 

[Skiwan]

I'd just like to add once again, if we're talking about original writers, and original intentions then this would be a quite useful bit of information to read:

Action Comics # 1 (1938), the first comic book in which Superman appeared, claimed only that its hero could "leap 1/8th of a mile; hurdle a twenty-story building... raise tremendous weights... run faster than an express train... and that nothing less than a bursting shell could penetrate his skin!"