Hitler: Genius or Lunatic

[DiebytheSword]

....Germany loved him. They weren't scared of him. Europe was scared of him. Were people afraid of Jesus when he came to move them into their glory? Why would the Germans be afraid of the man who promised them the world?

Hitler was a genious, people can have exposure but not handle it the right way. Look at George Bush, you need to have the intelligence to know how to manipulate the right people and when.

Nazi's loved him, I doubt the German Jews, ***s and I know for a fact German Catholics did not love him. My Great Grandparents were German Catholics who spent time in a concentration camp before they were allowed to leave Germany because they did not love Hitler and the third Reich. While he promised them the world, he also asked them to throw aside thier religeon, and some could not let go of their god. For the Jews, that's a bit more obvious.

 

[Eon]

Master of corruption, came in and then ruled by fist and fear. Horrible man (though if I'm not mistaken Joseph Stalin of russia wasn't any nicer to the jewish people..) anyways, he was a smart man, but he was one of the most inhuman beings to walk the planet.

 

[frsrblch]

Im sure there have been worse, but none of them ended up commanding one of the strongest nations of the world (at the time).

 

[Tassadar]

Genius at giving speeches most definatly. He was able to sway a nation into taking on the world. But an obvious lunatic in his views both politically and ideologically.

 

[[DoH]Soulicro]

Being Jewish, Im quite touchy about the subject.
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I do belive Hitler was a smart man. He knew when to do what, and where to do it. The fact he was able to conquer most of Europe is insane, if you think about it. However - and I do think that its been said in this thread - they say that being genius is a form of craziness. I actually think its a big shame that he believed in what he believed. Forget the fact that he killed such a huge amount of my people - he was a strong guy. I think that if we can get a man like him today with the right moral values, the world could be a better place than what it is today.
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Fire Phoenix, it is true that Hitler hated all people other than his own kind - or rather, what he himself believed to be the superior race. However, his hatered for Jews combined with the amount of them that were present in Germany, and all the countries he took over, well... Lets say that these Jewish people were at the wrong place at the wrong time (thats an understatement). Six million people killed simply due to their religion, not to mention other resentment through out the years, including modern times. Jews have been constantly picked on (along with other minority groups) all throughout history. These days there are people who claim the Holocaust never existed - that its the Jew's invention in order to get people to feel sorry for them. Its a god damn sad fact, but its true.

Hitler put these people - people just like you - in crowded trains, told them to get in a shower, and gassed them to death. Because he burned them and put them in piles. Because he tortured them and treated them like puny ****ing animals. Yes, he did this to other groups of people. Fortunately for them, it was not in this number of people.
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On a side note, Holocaust rememberance day is the 25th of April. Pay your respects, even if you're not Jewish. What Hitler did to those poor people living at the time is absolutely terrible. Have some respect.

 

[nge]

Just to confirm some's suspision; I can promise you Adolf was not Jewish.

I kind've wonder; would Hitler have been so... genocidal, if he just got accepted into art school?

Smart man. Powerful man. Derranged man. When one is all three, change will ensue for better or worse.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Edit- Also he thought blue-eyed blonde-haired people were inherantly superior, he didn't try to kill them. Yes he also focused on other groups than the Jews, but this isn't about that, so let's not dig up the darkest part of the war.

Again Fire, for the last time, do not dig up the darkest part of the war. You mention experiments and do not even use then in your argument. If you have a point to make and you're cautious about it you can site specific examples but you seem to be arguing about Kidboy overgeneralizing instead of focusing on the topic. . .

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Fire Phoenix, it is true that Hitler hated all people other than his own kind - or rather, what he himself believed to be the superior race. However, his hatered for Jews combined with the amount of them that were present in Germany, and all the countries he took over, well... Lets say that these Jewish people were at the wrong place at the wrong time (thats an understatement). Six million people killed simply due to their religion, not to mention other resentment through out the years, including modern times. Jews have been constantly picked on (along with other minority groups) all throughout history. These days there are people who claim the Holocaust never existed - that its the Jew's invention in order to get people to feel sorry for them. Its a god damn sad fact, but its true.

Hitler put these people - people just like you - in crowded trains, told them to get in a shower, and gassed them to death. Because he burned them and put them in piles. Because he tortured them and treated them like puny ****ing animals. Yes, he did this to other groups of people. Fortunately for them, it was not in this number of people.
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What exactly do I have to do here to get you guys to stop detailing Hitler's genocide? You guys could at least pretend you aren't just aimlessly attempting to bring up sensitive material by posting '...and that's why I believe he's out of his mind' at the end. This doesn't have to do with the people who claim it didn't happen, or who he persecuted. Most of us understand the history, this thread is about applying it to the individual.

 

[Barney's Soul]

Im sure there have been worse, but none of them ended up commanding one of the strongest nations of the world (at the time).

That means your saying he's a genious and a lunatic? That's what I'lds say, a lot of crazy people back then who hated Jews probably wanted to do exacly what Hitler tried to do. Difference is though Hitler is a genious, and almost made his dream world a reality, unlike any other random person who wanted to dominate the world at that time(or any time) A lot of people maybe hated the Jews back then, but none of them had the smarts to get a huge army backing them up so you can eradicate the Jews. Hitler was brillent and a lunitic, anyone who says he's not a lunitic should go restudy what this man achully did. And in no way am I saying what he did was good, or defending him, I'm merly pointing out evidence that this guy is a genous(almost took over the world and eradicated the Jews), and a lunitic for that exact same reason.

 

[Bolteh2]

First of, Hitler had in fact jewish blood in him.. His grandmother (or greatgrandmother) was jewish, that's why quite a few people didn't take him serious in the beginning. Another thing, Hitler's best friend during his starting years, was a jew.

Now, I'll just say that Hitler had an unhealthy mix of both genius and mental behaviour.. When he started politics, he was quite clueless of how to act and what to do, so he fell back on the 1 thing he could do best, talk people into something. Hitler was very charasmetic during his speeches, people watched in awe when he was talking. The reason why his speeches were quite succesful (in the beginning not that much, since people were skeptical about this "new boy") was that Hitler knew what was wrong with the german society back then. Germany was at an all time low after World War 1, he knew that germany had moneyproblems, he knew that there were a lot of jobless people, he knew that germany was weak and fragile.. His aggression was admired by a lot of people, because he represented something they couldn't/didn't dare to show. Back then, when german valuta was quite crappy, a lot of jews came to germany to do golden business.. Hitler noticed this and used the jews as the reason why there are so many jobless germans.. He blamed the jews of stealing their jobs.. And because he previously represented the common man's feelings, people bought his words and supported him. Soon enough, Hitler had enough people around him.
Hitler was quite the brilliant artist to, he had a feeling for artistic propaganda.. Even to this day, nazi propaganda is the best propaganda ever. Even the design of the swastika logo shows his brilliance. The red indicates the anger of the common people, while the Swastika represents the indian birth-death cycle.. Hitler reversed the direction of the "hooks" to represent death-birth cycle.. The dead of the old germany and the birth of a new powernation. Around the swastika, there is a white circle that represents the protection of this new nation.

That's about the only thing Hitler was good at.. He was a genius at arts and giving speeches, but that's about it. Ever since the beginning of the war, Hitler was losing his mind. He was not a great tactician, it were his generals that came up with tactics. Hitler just said "I want that" and his generals planned the whole operation. Near the end, Hitler even started to invent armies he never even had.
He also found himself in a position where he thought he couldn't be harmed.. The alliances forged to back him up in times of need meant nothing to him anymore.. He backstabbed soviet russia, he even attacked italian armies when italy pulled back from the war. But mainly the attack on russia meant an almost certain death of nazi-germany, if hitler kept russia as an alliance, all europeans would be speaking german right now.


PS: the US and British intelligence knew about the concentration camps since begin 1944.. Yet they didn't do anything to stop them.. Imho, they too have a great deal in the millions of people killed by "the hand" of Hitler.

 

[SailorAlea]

Well, considering as how it's not the USA's job to save everybody, especially seeing how America was in an isolationist movement until attacked by Japan, and also factoring in that we weren't initially prepared for war--we did a pretty good job of getting rid of him.

In any case, people keep saying things like..

Hitler was definitely a genious, in every way. He just got greedy, like most people. Had he not given in to temptation, we'd all be under his flag.

But mainly the attack on russia meant an almost certain death of nazi-germany, if hitler kept russia as an alliance, all europeans would be speaking german right now.

If the war had gone on long enough, also taking into account that we didn't know the long-term effects of nuclear exposure, I don't see there being much opposition to turning most of Germany into a nuclear wasteland.

As a sidenote, people keep bringing up the 'Jewish myths.' There are a million.

"Hitler was rejected from art school--the head of which was a Jew!"
"Hitler was refused by a Jewish prostitute!"
"Hitler's mother was Jewish, and he hated.."

How many of these legends are actually true? If many (or any) were verifiable, you'd see more of them in history books.

 

[Bolteh2]

As a sidenote, people keep bringing up the 'Jewish myths.' There are a million.

"Hitler was rejected from art school--the head of which was a Jew!"
"Hitler was refused by a Jewish prostitute!"
"Hitler's mother was Jewish, and he hated.."

How many of these legends are actually true? If many (or any) were verifiable, you'd see more of them in history books.

It was a jew that saw the talent in Hitler, it was a jew that said he should keep working on his paintings.. Hitler never got rejected from art-school because he never went to one.. He was just trying to find galleries to expose his paintings, and a jew helped him.

Dunno about the prostitute.

Hitler's grandmother (or greatgrandmother) was jewish, but not his mother.

 

[Hitokiri]

You guys seem to rule out the idea that he could've been a genius AND a lunatic.

On D-Day, there was an order required to send in reinforcements that might have driven back the Allies. But Hitler was asleep. If you woke Hitler up, he'd probably shoot you. If you left Hitler out of the decision, he'd probably shoot you. So they let him sleep while their defenses got crushed. His genius kind of ran out, getting dragged into a 2-front war...

And to get into details, Hitler was rejected from the Academy of Arts in Vienna twice. After the second time he gave up and lived his life painting tourist postcards. There was also a large anti-semitic movement in Vienna (which actually had a large Jewish community) and Hitler was influenced by many of the prominent race ideologists there. It wasn't all something that just popped into his head one day. Before Vienna, there's no evidence he was anti-semitic. In fact, a Jew was helping him sell his postcards for a while.

One of the reasons he was so twisted might've been that he was frequently beaten within an inch of his life by his drunken father. They say it left him in states of helplessness and unpredictability, with a propensity for personal humiliation and a thirst for greatness.

Anyway, he certainly gave Earth a run for its money. But IMHO, anybody that deep into race ideologies is nuts even if he is a smart guy. You're allowed to be both.

 

[Gama]

just clear the history of hitler and to his death for u guys cuz some of the facts are getting twisted.....

Hitler was the son of a minor customs official and a peasant girl. A poor student, he never completed high school. He applied for admission to the Academy of Fine Arts in Vienna but was rejected for lack of talent. Staying in Vienna until 1913, he lived first on an orphan's pension, later on small earnings from pictures he drew. He read voraciously, developing anti-Jewish and antidemocratic convictions, an admiration for the outstanding individual, and a contempt for the masses.

In World War I, Hitler, by then in Munich, volunteered for service in the Bavarian army. In September 1919 he joined the nationalist German Workers' party, and in April 1920 he went to work full time for the party, now renamed the National Socialist German Workers' (Nazi) party. In 1921 he was elected party chairman (Führer) with dictatorial powers.

Evaluation

Hitler had a charismatic personality of overpowering forcefulness. An amoral man, rootless and incapable of personal friendships, he looked on his fellow humans as mere bricks in the world structure he wished to erect. He knew how to appeal to people's baser instincts and made use of their fears and insecurities. He could do that, however, only because they were willing to be led, even though his program was one of hatred and violence. His impact was wholly destructive, and nothing of what he instituted and built survived.

For full background go here http://www.historychannel.com/thcsearch/thc_resourcedetail.do?encyc_id=211971

Sorry mods if this is considered spam.

 

[bile]

First off, this isn't a thread to praise Hitler for killing the jews. This is a topic to discuss wither or not he was a genius. Not a genius as in killing the jews (again, this isn't what the topic is about) but a genius in the way of his speeches.

I think he was a genius because he made so many people believe in his cause. When he was in jail, he freakin wrote a book and when he got out, people loved him. People were ready to kill for him.

So now, do you feel the same way or do you think he was just crazy?

Ignoring his motives, and his morals.

He was in all actuality a great leader, Exquisit speaker, and not a bad military stragererizer [lmao gotta love makin up words]

If you think about what he accomplished .. ya gotta give him props.. he pulled his country out of a depression, and took on the world... not too shabby even tho morally he was a lunatic.

 

[Bolteh2]

Ignoring his motives, and his morals.

He was in all actuality a great leader, Exquisit speaker, and not a bad military stragererizer [lmao gotta love makin up words]

If you think about what he accomplished .. ya gotta give him props.. he pulled his country out of a depression, and took on the world... not too shabby even tho morally he was a lunatic.

1) His generals were in charge for most of the tacticts and strategies.

2) He pulled his country out of a depression by giving jobs to people.. The way he did this: make sure jews, ***s, hipsies, handicap people didn't get jobs/got fired, so others could take over.. Then started an whole industry for military uses purposes only.. He may have gotten germany out of a depression for 5-6 years, but after that, germany was in an all time low.

 

[Chakra-X]

If his visions weren't so warped, he would make an alright "leader". I really can not straight forward and say "Hitler would make a great leader" without some mental recoil. If he focused his "talents" on more positive subjects, he would probably do well.

 

[Devion]

I'm not sure if Hitler was a genious, he obviously was lacking in the military tactics area, as many of his decisions about war weren't the best (ala lets pull a Boneapart and freeze our asses off). Charismatic, yes, extremely so. He was more a man with good sense who took advantage of a situation he saw.

Actually he was not, he knew what he did, he only got arrogant and ignorrant and was too focussed on Moscow. German troops were so close that they could see the Kremlin.

What killed them is that Hitler(And his generals) decided too rush, too fast, having to wait, too long for a decent supply line and giving Russia the time they needed. Example: German troops couldnt attack Leningrad right away, because of that they gave the Russian civilians and army time to make Leningrad a fortress.

The only real military blunder he made, was switching his troops constant and focussing too much on the south where the industry of Russia, believe that would cripple Russia.(Instead they moved more to the east and got factories running in 2 months producing over 2000 T34 and 1500 airplanes a month)

Later on he kept switching troops between Moscow, Leningrad and south of Russia. Also in the winter of 1942, the siberia troops returned, which had lots of experince, because they just fought the Japanese.

The cold was bad, as in they needed to heat up tanks and some german troops died of the cold, but it was because they had too long supply lines which couldnt supply them with the right stuff.(Warm clothes etc)

Besides all this, it was 3,000,000 Germans vs 15,000,000 Russians.(Ofcourse the number increased on both sides)

Not a lunatic though, simply misguided

I agree.
Most people forget that he was also a human. He also got the idea from somewhere.

....Germany loved him. They weren't scared of him. Europe was scared of him. Were people afraid of Jesus when he came to move them into their glory? Why would the Germans be afraid of the man who promised them the world?

Hitler was a genious, people can have exposure but not handle it the right way. Look at George Bush, you need to have the intelligence to know how to manipulate the right people and when.

Actually he wasnt loved by all germans. The estimate of the germans standing behind him before the war was about 45%. He tricked the german people. During the war, german students, soldiers and military leaders rebelled against him. There were also assasinations attempts by germans on Hitler, example: Staufenberg.

Hitler was jewish, wasn't he?

Some people believe his grandmother was Jewish, this was never confirmed.

Nazi's loved him, I doubt the German Jews, ***s and I know for a fact German Catholics did not love him. My Great Grandparents were German Catholics who spent time in a concentration camp before they were allowed to leave Germany because they did not love Hitler and the third Reich. While he promised them the world, he also asked them to throw aside thier religeon, and some could not let go of their god. For the Jews, that's a bit more obvious.

What are you talking about? Hitler was christian/believed in god. Also on the SS belt stated, Got ist mit uns, translated God is with us.

If the war had gone on long enough, also taking into account that we didn't know the long-term effects of nuclear exposure, I don't see there being much opposition to turning most of Germany into a nuclear wasteland.

Nazi-germany was way ahead of nuclear development, they just missed 1 ingredient or they did something wrong, cant remember which. Hitler also had jet fighters at the end of the war, which actually fought too.(Which England or America kept secret, it had something to do with a Hungarian scientist)

P.s. Holocaust was worse, but just remind that 2 times as many Russians soldiers died and 1 millions more Russians civilians(then the 6 million of the holocaust), then there were in the holocaust.

 

[g0jack]

Kidboy has a habit of making topics that make me think. I'm just going to go along with some others and say he was both. He was a genius that could have done something great had he not been a lunatic

 

[Gama]

the reason hitler didnt take russia was cuz he attacked in spring time when russia was not cold but as he took more and more as devion said the russians moved east, by the time they hit the center of russia forgot the cap name of it, it was winter and they soilders could not get the supplys they need just like devion said again but russia didnt make planes so much they made tanks, had the biggest tank army every cuz they were deveopling them so fast cuz where they factorys were so far out no one could bomb them, But ya germany was more advanced in nuke warfare. Hitler did begin a op to create pipe lines that could lanch and hit anywhere in the world but the brits and us did an op and destoryed them. Ya devion is also right germany were the only ones to have jets because england and the US and everyone else for that fact just laughted at the fact of them condering it crazy and cant be done. But hitler did use them during the war and as we all know they were super effictive. My knownledge of the war is a bit fuzzy but that should be most of the facts

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

What exactly do I have to do here to get you guys to stop detailing Hitler's genocide? You guys could at least pretend you aren't just aimlessly attempting to bring up sensitive material by posting '...and that's why I believe he's out of his mind' at the end. This doesn't have to do with the people who claim it didn't happen, or who he persecuted. Most of us understand the history, this thread is about applying it to the individual.

If you want them to debate whether someone was a lunatic or a genius without mentioning the fact that he killed six million people because he disliked their religion...well hell, just close the thread now.

It is actually a historical fact that Hitler had some very close advisors and contributors who were jewish. When they exceeded their usefulness, he usually had them killed, so as to avoid having his public image soiled.

Personally, I think the man was a good speaker, but nothing more. His military, his technology, his planning...it was all laid out for him by those around him, and his mentor (I forget his name, but the guy taught him everything he knew before he died).

If the countries in Europe had more of a resistance I'd have been a lot more impressed. But some places...Poland, for example...it's like...one unit of marines could take that. All the places he attacked that were capable of defending themselves, he technically stalemated; Russia, Britain, etc.

So no, I don't think he's a genius, at least not militarily. His army had better weapons and vehicles; that was really the only reason he got as far as he did, if you ask me.