Global Warming: Absolutely True, or Sadly False? (Discuss & Vote)

[J-Dude]

I understand your use of Katrina, but the Tsunami is a geological occurance, not a meteorological one. An strong earhquake gave way and there was a Tsunami. It has nothing to do with the temperature of the air but of pressure between tectonic plates.

Also, I understand that the oil industry is attempting to monopolize the business, but democracy can easily overthrow such a thing. Its long since time that the government starts regulating gas prices and pushing through some bills. I've heard people say the government is unwilling to let the oil industry die because they supply a large sum of government funding. I say its oil's last death-throws before the people put it down for good. We don't need more Rockafellers. This is America, and the people will always have the power, no matter what corrupt officials hold offices that can prevent these things. And certainly the Bush Administration can help ween us off oil for good.

As for Kyoto, I disagree that .04 degrees in a century is a valid reason to sign onto such a radical program. You might as well be firing a beebee gun at a freight train. It is slow and steady measures towards greener lifestyles and technology that will curb Co2 emmisions. And thankfully, the co2 doesn't remain in the air forever. Every time it rains hard the air is cleansed so much you breathe it in like mountian air. It clear the senses and improves thinking clarity. Why do you think our best ideas come to us in the shower?

I would know this to be true. I live East of Los Angeles, and the horrible smog and filthy factory emissions are blown from LA by coastal winds into our valley, where the heat traps it. The visibility from my home to the mountains to the North is often not even halfway during a heatwave. Basically, what should be LA's problem becomes ours. But every time it rains, all of it is cleansed from the air. The mountains are once more visible at crystal clarity. Trust me when I say its nothing permanent. Once we begin using alternate technologies for automobiles alone, we will notice an astronomical change in the air quality and whatever human impacts (if any) on heating the planet will be entirely reversed. Therefore, true or not, I don't worry.

EDIT: Oh, and I don't know where you heard that Mars was once Earthlike. It is too frigid there for water to exist in liquid form, and the atmosphere is extremely thin. To make Mars hospitable for life and liquid water, you would be required to thicken the atmosphere with greenhouse gases. Mars isn't tainted by too much greenhouse effect, but by not nearly enough. Its a rusty red rock.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

I thought "An Inconveniant Truth" pretty much laid it out. The planet does in fact get warmer and colder over time, but our CO2 levels rise and fall proportionally alongside those temperature fluctuations, and right now we've got way more CO2 in our atmosphere than we've ever had in our planet's history. The only reason I could see there being an "argument" against Global Warming is that people don't want to read scientific studdies, they'd rather just believe it isn't happening.

Also, a side note: Hotter temperatures create more powerful hurricanes, it's a fact. Warmer air over the ocean provides more precipitation and alters air pressure.

I'm not sure why Katrina is so easily ignored by some, either. The rest of the world agreed with Global warming... what makes our scientists so much better than theirs? Oh wait, our scientists agree with theirs. Yeah I don't get it.

Additionally I'll add that it doesn't rain in our upper atmosphere where most of this CO2 seems to be stored, so you can't just wash it away. C02 is supposed to stay in our atmosphere, the issue is just having too much of it.

 

[J-Dude]

Excuse me. I've read several journals and books that contradict the popular beliefs of global warming. Al Gore's film is a PLM production designed to gains support for him for office in the 2008 elections, God forbid an idiot like himself ever gains the seat.

The cold fact is that anyone who spouts the liberal line is likely to be depicted as sophisticated, if not brilliant, and anyone who opposes it is likely to be considered dull, if not stupid, in the liberal media. So simply condemning those like myself who go against the grain of public opinion are likely to be attacked and considered to be "in-denial" even though they have followed the topic in an unbiased manner for over two years only to conclude for themselves and dare believe that the public view is wrong. You see, humans aren't naturally sentient beings. They can think for themsleves, but they don't because it makes them uncomfortable. Its much easier to nod their heads with the rest of the faceless herd.

 

[Majin_You]

EDIT: Oh, and I don't know where you heard that Mars was once Earthlike. It is too frigid there for water to exist in liquid form, and the atmosphere is extremely thin. To make Mars hospitable for life and liquid water, you would be required to thicken the atmosphere with greenhouse gases. Mars isn't tainted by too much greenhouse effect, but by not nearly enough. Its a rusty red rock.

On the contrary. Mars has plenty of CO2; due to the average temperature on Mars, much of the CO2 exists as "snow" at the polar caps. If you look at pictures of Mars at varying points in its orbit, you'll notice that the poles shrink and expand; that's due to CO2 sublimating. It tends to go directly into Mars' atmosphere. Actually, when that happens to a large extent, the ambient temperature on Mars could be equated to a mild summer day or warm fall day around where I live (which is rather close to the US-Canada border), somewhere in the range of the mid-to-high 20's C. Recent evidence from the last few landers also seem to indicate tell-tale effects of water on certain rocks (I believe the current estimate is that Mars had one or more salty seas). However, it should also be noted that Mars is smaller than Earth; the smaller the planet, the more diminished its ability to hold an atmosphere in. I don't 100% recall the lectures on Mars I had in astronomy last year, but I believe it might have lost too much of the gas associated with its initial formation over time to maintain an atmosphere like it ostensibly had in the past. Assumedly, if it had liquid water in quantities to satisfy those of one or more seas, it was, on average, much warmer in the past.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

List me off a few of your references and I'll look into them personally, J-dude. In the meantime your totally biased attitude is going to start political flame wars. Your view of liberals is the same as many peoples' view of republicans, and I disagree than the media is biased towards one or the other. It depends on where you live and who is in office at the time.

 

[J-Dude]

Yes indeed, thank you. In fact, much CO2 is locked in the groundsoil as well. Settled there. It is believed that if the atmosphere became hotter that this carbon would be unlocked and thicken the atmosphere. Some believe it is possible to do this artificially and terraform Mars with today's technologies. The one problem would be the duststorms. It is so very dry on Mars that the sand there is fine enough to go right through a space-suit and into human pores. The rusted rocks there wouldn't be especially healthy either for those susceptible to tetanis.

EDIT: I will indeed inform you of my sources in due course. It will take time to summarize the majority.

 

[Fire Phoenix]

in a few thousands years....no offense...it isn't gonna matter what i think because i will either be


A) Ashes spread out to see

B) a corpse that the worms are still feeding on because i have so much to give.

C) in a coffin just bones with FP inside.



I beleive in global warming and i beleive that it CAN get bad...but i don't think it will play a major major factor anytime soon.

I fixed it for you

The answer is C.

I'll agree here I don't care much about it because I'll be dead >.< but it is deffinately an issue for the future of human kind. And we're doing what we can right now. With society the way it is (birds dying) we're really doing all we can. Like we're making cars that deposit less CO2 and CO into the air and other stuff like that and trying to find a more efficient fuel source for everything, and granted we found it, the money it takes to trasition is quite a bit, so it will take time.

Hey, at least we're trying right?

Oh yeah, btw, Dave, you should live in Colorado >.> the weather here is absolutely unpredictable. Yesterday (it's summer here) It was raining and hailing and thundering and lighting, today it was sunny out. And during the winter it will snow one day, and melt and be 60? out on the same day :x

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

I would bet my left leg that half these scientific studies you've read were performed by ivy league professors in red state university labs. But it's not your fault; no one tells you this, they just say a big huge important scientist guy says global warming is bull**** and you eat it up like a good little piggy.

Its much easier to nod their heads with the rest of the faceless herd.

Let me ask you a hypothetical, if stupid, question.

Suppose global warming is in fact all a farce as you claim, and we can treat the planet like **** all we want, just like your politics have conned you into thinking. Even if that is the case let me ask you the question: wouldn't it be better to be safe than sorry? Why do you think we should do NOTHING to at least respect our planet's natural balance? You're talking like someone who finds a legion on their body that could potentially be cancerous who doesn't ever bother to return to the doctor because they feel fine. It's completely illogical.

Then again if you're a republican--which your holier-than-thou attitude, ignorance of the obvious, and self-righteous demeanor all imply--than you don't know the meaning of the words "safe" or "sorry" so I suppose I'm wasting my keystrokes and you and yours will remain safely in your air-conditioned high rises while the rest of us deal with the consequences of your willful ignorance of what could possibly be a major threat to the survival of human existence.

Honestly I don't get it. There is more obvious evidence to support global warming then there was of WMDs in Iraq, but we can spend billions of dollars on an unwinnable and tyrannical as well as unnecessary occupation to poke and prod the most dangerous string of countries in the world and yet can't get you to believe that your SUV is helping contribute to the ****-uppery of the weather. Good one.

I sweat they put something in the water for you people.

That being said this thread is obviously skimming on politics so I'm going to stop posting. In large part because people like this make me sick. I'm out.

 

[J-Dude]

How quickly we went to flaming. I never put down anybody in this forum, but you have single handedly alienated everyone with opinions different from your narrow-sided mindset. Yes, I am a Republican, but this is outside of politics in my opinion. I believe this because it is my opinion, not because I am a partisan of the Republican Party, so such trump-cards aren't going to make me blink.

You say I am being a "good little piggy". You are the one who is going with the media flow, not me. I'm not the good little piggy if my opinions contradict those of the obvious majority.

You also mention the "balance of nature". There's no such thing. Nature is always out of balance, species fighting for territory, control and food, too many wolves and a scarcity in game animals. Too many game animals and not enough wolves to keep them in check. The idea of the world balancing itself if we aren't present is a fantasy. Anyone who believes otherwise is a hopeless romantic.

I said in earlier posts that I am for any measure to reduce emissions and pollution. I said, can't I be against the death penalty, but favor punishing criminals? Things aren't black-and-white as you think. Didn't I proclaim my excitement towards green technology? I just think that absurdly rash and drastic measures will harm a lot more than help.

You say I'm under willful ignorance? I'm not the ignorant one. I've gone out and found the truth out for myself rather than listening to press-releases from news anchors over the television.

You wanted my sources, and you've got 'em:

"State of Fear": Novel by Michael Chrichton; science writer of Jurassic Park, Prey and the TV series E.R.

"Goddard Institute for Space Studies"

"Trends: A Compendium of Data on Global Change"

"United States Historical Climatology Network"

"Creating Fear, News and the Construction of Crisis"

"Darwinizing Culture"

"The Consumer's Guide to Effective Environmental Choices: Practical Advice from the Union of Concerned Scientists"

"Greenhouse: The 200-Year Story of Global Warming"

"Losing Ground: American Environmentalism at the Close of the 20th Century"

"The Culture of Fear"

"Hard Green: Saving the Environment from the Environmentalists, a Conservative Manifesto"

"Emmision Scenarios"

"The Skeptical Environmentalist"

"Soft Energy Paths: Toward a Durable Peace"

"Global Warming: The Truth Behind the Myth"

"After the Ice Age: The Return of Life to Glaciated North America"

"Hot Talk, Cold Science: Global Warming's Unfinished Debate"

"The Discovery of Global Warming"

"But Is It True? A Citizen's Guide to Environmental Haelth and Safety Issues"

Of course, most of these I didn't read cover to cover, only the important parts with the facts I wanted to check.

As you can see, it's not just "one huge scientists telling me what to believe". I think you're guilty of that yourself, so hipocrisy is a bad move. Some of them are even written by scientists who believe to the core in global warming, but the data they provide vastly contradicts it. They believe, but they are baffled at the results and are often sure a miscalculation was made, despite several retests of data.

Looking at Both sides, this is my verdict, so anything you say about ignorance as though I know nothing of what I'm talking about and you do is bull****. I've looked at the research and this is my decision.

 

[Fire Phoenix]

If Global Warming isn't true, may God strike me down....now. Nope still alive. I win ^.^ It's true.

 

[MF29]

in a coffin just bones and that is it

Well said.

 

[Skiwan]

heh, well argued Pride D:

That's not completely true. I've seen several weather broadcast shows where it has been pointed out, that these snowy cold winters are not that usual in the region of U.K. Netherlands and Belgium. It's just that our youths were quite an exception with all the cold weather. Usually we really don't have those kind of winters, and the winters we're supposed to have are quite simular to the ****ty winters we've been experiencing the past few years. So, if you find yourself skating on natural ice or throwing a snowball or two, you should consider yourself lucky, as those are rare winters.

I wasnt really just going on my experiences though, im talking about everything my parents and grand parents have told me, and my brothers and sisters (they're all like almost 10 years older than me). They all said we used to get a healthy ammount of snow every year, they used to even get snowed in some winters under a few feet of snow. These days we're lucky if we get 1 inch of snow, and its decreasing.

 

[Deman]

J-Dude, when you cite sources, you also should cite pages, and even paragraphs, especially in the sources that aren't 100% about global warming, such as the Goddard such like that.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

but you have to remember that as the sun ages it gets bigger and hotter, although i believe global warming is happening because of the holes that spring up in the atmosphere

you have to take into account the other ways the earth can get warmer

 

[Sicron]

Global warming takes places because of the CO2 cars etc. put in the air. This way, the sun warms up the earth, but the warmth can not leave the earth. Don't believe it? Check the North/South Pole. Huge glaciers are melting, that is NOT supposed to happen, and the global warming isn't your biggest problem, by the time you will die of the heath (sp?), half of the population of earth will already have drowned because the North and Soutpole have melted.

Still don't believe me? Wait a couple of years and we will argue again.

but you have to remember that as the sun ages it gets bigger and hotter

I don't know if this is true, since I thougth the sun actually cools down because it looses it's fuel, untill it actually turn white (meaning it is near death, white in sun-terms means really cold, blue means hot.) and then turn into a supernova. Anyway, even if the sun would get hotter, we would hardly notice this amount of difference, we have had the global warming problems for the past...20 years? Well, a sun lives 10 million years, you won't notice this much of a change in 20 years if a sun lives 10 million years.

I beleive in global warming and i beleive that it CAN get bad...but i don't think it will play a major major factor anytime soon.

Depends on what you mean by soon, I think in like 50 years we will really start to see the North and Southpole melt down, I find that pretty soon.

 

[Basslover722]

Uhh i fricken hate this thread not that i don't beleive but just i hate thinking about it. J-dude why did you post a thread like this?

 

[J-Dude]

@Basslover722: Shying away from things don't help anyone; spreading the word does.

Whose told you the glaciers are melting? Or should I say ALL melting? Because they all recede and advance in regular intervals. There are one-hundred sixty thousand glaciers on this planet, 497 in California alone. Only sixty-seven thousand have been inventoried and only about seventy nine have been studied with any care. All the rest go unreported and all our news comes from the 79 people have bothered to study. Nobody knows if the are all advancing or receding. More than likely they are doing both at random depending on humidity factors and local weather.

And I've already said only the edges of the poles close to the tropics are actually producing icebergs. The interior is getting colder and creating more ice, contradicting that its all supposedly melting.

 

[KidMan]

Global Warming is happening and thats that. Only thing we can do about it is plant more trees but it seems that not enough people care to do that. I'm doing my part and others should as well. Come on ESF community, we should all go out there and plant a tree!

 

[J-Dude]

Global Warming is happening and thats that.

All that sentence proves is that in no way can you impeach or truthully contradict my statments with facts of your own. At this point you're holding onto it for no reason other than that you think so. Oh well, I suppose its admirable to go by nothing but faith.

 

[Killface]

All that sentence proves is that in no way can you impeach or truthully contradict my statments with facts of your own. At this point you're holding onto it for no reason other than that you think so. Oh well, I suppose its admirable to go by nothing but faith.

Well, he is gonna have to say that. No matter how much proof there is about global warming being a great problem, you are so stubborn that it doesn't matter what everyone says, you are gonna go with what you THINK.

We tried to pound the facts into your scull, but like I said, your stubborness and the willingness to be right make it impossible.. to the point that we have to say that "we are right, you are wrong J-Dude". That's what it has all boiled down to.