Global Warming: Absolutely True, or Sadly False? (Discuss & Vote)

Global Warming: What do you think?

  • Absolutely real and happening, no question!

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  • Global Warming...? What's that?

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  • I'm not sure...Arguments on both sides have good points...

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  • Completely false and blown out of proportion; an old idea past it's time...

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A big thing anymore that has filled the news and turned the world to panic is the theory of Global Warming, which most people seem to believe is coming into fruition after much speculation since its introduction in 1989.

The Politico-Legal-Media Complex (PLM) has told us almost indefinitely that this is indeed not only a theory, but a reality. But is it really so...? Is this REALLY what science has found?

Let's discuss!

To Mods: No, this is not a political discussion and I intend to keep it that way.

PS: Let's try not to flame people for their opinions on the matter; this is meant to be an intelligent discussion.
 
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..Yes, it's absolutely true. It's proven, more than once, with mountains of evidence supporting it.

In all honesty, I don't see how anyone can disagree that it's true.
 
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I'm saying yes because its definetly getting warmer than what its been in the last few years and theres been a lot less rain (But then that could be because of Summer, but even then there are a few rainy days)

So basically Yes I do believe it
 

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J-Dude said:
A big thing anymore that has filled the news and turned the world to panic is the theory of Global Warming, which most people seem to believe is coming into fruition after much speculation since its introduction in 1989.

The Politico-Legal-Media Complex (PLM) has told us almost indefinitely that this is indeed not only a theory, but a reality. But is it really so...? Is this REALLY what science has found?

Let's discuss!

To Mods: No, this is not a political discussion and I intend to keep it that way.

PS: Let's try not to flame people for their opinions on the matter; this is meant to be an intelligent discussion.
You should've asked a moderator's or an administrator's permission before creating this thread. I think there was another thread similiar to this that was closed within the next few posts. You might intend to keep this as less political as possible but there's no way you can stop those from getting into such a discussion since in reality, global warming is a political issue. I'll wait for a moderator or an administrator to give the ok to this thread before I post my thoughts since my thoughts completely differ from what everyone has said so far which I know will cause problems.
 
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@MC: That's fine.

You say mountains of evidence; can you give references to the original scientific work that says so? What are the core of your beliefs? What makes you sure about it?

You say its hotter than ever. Let me show you the reality.



Theres your Global Warming. Hardly a change. I can show you more if you're interested. In fact I count on this not being enough to sway opinions yet. But for that, more questions must be asked for the true answer to become clear.
 
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I'd be interested to know what your source for that graph is, it seems a bit wonky. I mean, were the 80s really that hot?

Global Warming is part of a cycle our planet has being going through for a lot longer than we've been here. We may have speeded things up a little but this isn't anything that hasn't happened before and most probably won't happen again.

As to how I know that the planet is getting hotter? Talk to anyone over the age of 60. And I don't want to hear any 'Oh, old people always say stuff like that' cause it's a crock. The bay my town sits beside used to freeze over during winter, we used to get snow all the time. Now snow comes maybe three times in a decade and the bay hasn't frozen in my or my parents lifetime.

It's the difference of a degree, maybe just half a degree, but its there. And it'll keep coming.
 
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http://www.objectivescience.com/articles/

This is the site I got the image from.

I don't disagree that the planet is warming. I just disagree that it is anything new. The planet has been gradually warming for the past 6,000 years. The sudden catastrophic increase in temperature the media regulates doesn't exist. Its all gradual, and its all natural.

People claim Greenland and its glaciers are melting. But its been hapenning. Its not the up to the minute news the reporters give you. Half of what they read to you is direct from a press release, often don't change a word.

Studies say that Greenland may melt in the next thousand years. And thats if our calculations are even correct. Human beings are often accredited as the great disrupters, destroyers and usurpers of the natural world, but it really isn't so. We give ourself too much credit.

We view the world as a snapshot, but our world is alive. Locking your children in a room won't stop them from growing up. Signing the Kyota protocol, which even with the help of the US, would only have reduced global temperatures by .04 degrees celcius by the year 2100 at the expense of billions of wasted dollars. The planet has been warming for some time and we've been blaming ourselves for it.

The man who proposed the theory of Global Warming in 1988 (James Hansen) waited for Summer so he could deliver his governmental hearing in a blistering heatwave to set the mood. In 1995, when the IPCC report was released, a few last minute changes were made after the real scientists had gone home. The original document said they couldn't detect human interference in the climate for sure and didn't know when they would.

The statement was deleted and replaced with a message that a discernable human interference was did exist. Big difference huh? Why would they do that? Funding. Envoronmental groups do not exist to change anything, they exist to uphold the status quo, because when you fix something, your funding ends.

Finally, Hansen's announcement included a prediction that the global temperature would increase .35 degrees celcius over the next ten years. How much was it really? .11 degrees. He then stated after this that the forces that govern climate change are so poorly understood that long-term prediction is impossible.

Think about it. He was off by 300%...NASA's work in space is only off by a few thousandths of a percent. NASA knows what its doing. Our ability to understand the atmospheric engine is not yet to any point of competence and so any claims on Global Warming come into question. So how can you believe all the computer simulations and long-term graphs on Global Warming when then can't even predict the whether even ten days in advance?
 
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I'm not sure I follow your point about global warming being natural. I mean, I don't refute it. I agree, I even said that in my post, but that doesn't make it any less of an eventual threat.

Even if the human affect is negligible, it's still a problem, it might still lead to an Ice Age. And does it really matter if it happens today, tomorrow, or in a millenias time? It seems a bit tight-fisted to quibble over money when you're speaking about something that could, one day, continue the existence of our species..

So, no, we aren't completely responsible. Partly, because the toxins being pumped into the atmosphere do have an affect (I can't imagine having some massive hole in the Ozone is terribly healthy), but not completely.

The public conception of Global Warming may be exaggerated but that's a far cry from the theory being false. It's been manipulated, true, but it's still fact at the very core.
 
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The galaxy is slowly rotating into the Sun, so of course, the atmosphere is going to thicken and the temperature is going to rise.

Mercury looked like Venus, Venus looked like Earth, and Earth looked like Mars.

My guess is when Jupiter hits the asteroid belt, it will form Mars somehow.

Just my theory on the universe... I figure why not have my own.
 
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are you a scientist? have you conducted these tests yourself?

Thats the only way i figure you'd be able to really decide happily upon one or the other. Both sides have their cases, but what baffles me is the lack of urgency in deciding how much effect we have on it. Surely if its true, our governments would do something about it. However our governments might have their own agenda. Truth is, we dont know because both sides have mountains of evidence. We actually cant decide what theory is correct because the ammount of time we've been on this earth is nothing compared to its lifespan, taking any kinda research at face value wont get you very far, because basing research on the human race's lifespan isnt enough to draw solid conclusions.
 
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Surely if its true, our governments would do something about it.
Nope. It's already been proven to be in affect so many times, so many different ways. The current government denies every case and every study. We talk about this often in the newsroom and it's disgusting the amount of things that get shot down by the right agenda. Even if it wasn't going to destroy the planet, we should be finding better methods of fueling our society regardless. Gas isn't cutting it anymore; it's expensive, it's running low, and we keep havign to deal witht hese third world psychopaths in order to keep it coming in. It burns ****ty and in every aspect we use it in there are hugely better ways to accomplish the same goals at much higher efficiency. Every single thing you can think of that uses gas, there is a better, smarter way to make it work. But people don't want to lose their precious money. We have basically turned off our primary human trait--adaptability under duress--in order to keep a handful of people incredibly rich.

You say mountains of evidence; can you give references to the original scientific work that says so? What are the core of your beliefs? What makes you sure about it?
Just look outside.

It rained for nearly 20 days straight here in Boston before immediately turning to literally 97 degrees for a few days. That isn't normal, even for here. Look around you, man--the weather is setting new records for destructive capacity all over. It is actually expected that in the near future we will be experiencing horrendous droughts (I mean earth-cracking, desert-dry droughts) followed immediately and unnaturally by long and severe bouts of thunderstorms, severe enough to cause flooding.

Yes that's right. FLOODING at the ass end of a DESERT-LIKE LEVEL OF DROUGHT. That's not natural.

That aside it only snowed three times here this winter, so even a retard who thinks on the literal sense that global warming doesn't just affect weather system balance and thinks it literally is just warming, it should be plainly obvious.

Any dumbass can look out the window and see the weather is getting severe in every aspect as time goes on. We once got six inches of snow and all of it was melted the next day in summer like heat. Many times I've found myself having to alternate into winter or summer clothes when they're still packed away for the current season.

Anyone who denies the reality of altered weather that surrounds us every day is just in complete and utter denial.
 
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I for one believe in global warming but then again i also believe in santa claus.....
 
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I think I would be a fool to not see that the planet is slowly but surely going up in temperature.
The problem is this: can we really do anything about it? Is it a natural process, or is it really the green house gas emissions? If it is a product of humanity... how can we go about fixing it without completly restructuring lifestyles and economies?
Questions that need to be answered, I guess.
 
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Who says the slow steady warming trend is a bad thing? Even if it does occur, it will actually result in a net benefit for most nations.

Take our last El Nino in 1998. El Ninos generally last about a year and a half and raises global climactic temperatures. Consider this as a real-world simulation of Global Warming.

The result was flooding and some ruined crops in California. But the net economic effect of the last El Nino was a gain of fifteen billion dollars in that state alone because of the longer growing season and less use of winter heating oil. That's after deducting $1.5 billion for flooding and excess rain in California. Still, a net benefit.

And of course crop failures were not a result of higher carbon dioxide levels. If anything, increased carbon dioxide stimulates plant growth. There is some evidence of this hapenning. For example, the most recent sattelite studies show the Sahara Desert has shrunk since 1980. The plants on the borders are reclaiming the land there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm for any measure to reduce emissions and gradually switch to alternate means of energy. I for one am excited about such inventions as the hydrogen car, which after some long years of improvement should solve many economic and environental problems. After all, can't you be against the death penalty, and at the same time favor punishing criminals?

The point is, unlike such realistic measures, people are pouring rediculous amounts of money in trying to stop something that is not only a fairly natural thing, but also hardly any true threat to man.

The United States has spent billions of dollars on something that is no true threat if it exists at all. I know what you're thinking, "So what? We're rich,". But the fact is, only $25 billion is more than the total GDP of the poorest 50 nations in the world combined! Half the worlds population lives on an average 2 dollars a day. So that kind of money would have been enough to support thirty-four million people for a year. Or we could have helped all the people dying of AIDS in Africa. Instead, we piss it away on a fantasy published by magazines whose readers take it very seriously! Trust it! It is a stupendous waste of money! In another world, it would be a criminal waste.

EDIT: Extreme and odd weather is hardly increasing. I've seen much stranger weather events in my life. In fact, extreme weather like hurricanes were higher in regularity (23) between the years of 1940 to 1949 (23) than more current rates between the years 2000-2004 (7).

Simply looking outside sin't going to give you the full scope on th world.
 
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J-dude, its not a naturally occuring thing... or... not being induced by nature solely. Trust me man, **** is gonna get nasty within the next 5 years.

And for extreme weather not increasing... Damn, you must be living in a hole or something. Look at Katrina, the Tornado outbreak of 2003, the Nor' Easter (blizzard) of 2005, the Northeast flood of 2006, insaine temperature flucuations, Forest fires, even the Tropical Cyclone that hit Australia back in the Spring. That cyclone had winds of 240mph, that makes Katrina look like a little *****.

You wanna be part of the group of people that doesn't like to agree with what is actually going on, thats cool with me. But the proof is around you man, It has been for about 5 years atleast. You wanna try to prove your point, then go for it.
 
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Walmart Security said:
J-dude, its not a naturally occuring thing... or... not being induced by nature solely. Trust me man, **** is gonna get nasty within the next 5 years.

And for extreme weather not increasing... Damn, you must be living in a hole or something. Look at Katrina, the Tornado outbreak of 2003, the Nor' Easter (blizzard) of 2005, the Northeast flood of 2006, insaine temperature flucuations, Forest fires, even the Tropical Cyclone that hit Australia back in the Spring. That cyclone had winds of 240mph, that makes Katrina look like a little *****.

You wanna be part of the group of people that doesn't like to agree with what is actually going on, thats cool with me. But the proof is around you man, It has been for about 5 years atleast. You wanna try to prove your point, then go for it.

Katrina was an unfortunate thing because it hit an area that rarely recieves full-force hurricanes. It was also because of the infamously underenforced levvies which gave way and flooded the whole city.

Why can't it possibly be natural? The thing you don't understand is that the world is changing around us. And nature is always out of balance and in disequalibreum. The notion that if you leave nature alone it will balance itself is a romanticised fantasy, unrealistic and untrue. Species go exctinct, glaciers melt, redwood forests burn down, the list goes on without our help. Like I said, the warming trend is nothing new. Something that has been occuring steadily for the last 6,000 years. Therefore, the idea that suddenly within the next five years we will "suddenly" drop off into a tangent of extreme climate events is a media driven lie.

The point is, people (you included) believe in Global Warming, because it gave the world something to fear. Because mankind indulges and clings to the ever-present state of fear.

To understand this is a long lecture, but I will do my best.

Scientists began to realize at the end of the 1980s that words like crisis, catastrophe, cataclysm, plague or disaster began to be used more and more frequently in news and the media after 1989. Phrases like these, if you can believe now, were hardly used prior. And the change coincided almost plottably by the fall of the Berlin Wall in November 9th of that year.

The fall of the Berlin Wall meant the end of the Cold War, which we had been fighting for half a century with the Russians. They feared us; we feared them. And suddenly, it broke apart. Our most dangerous enemy, Communism and the USSR had crumbled. And in so there was no longer a reason to be afraid. There was a vacuum of fear. Nature...abhors a vacuum.

And what hapenned that same year, 1989? Yes...the proposal of the theory of Global Warming. You have to realize that fear is what controls society, its the best, most efficient way. Fear keeps people in line, it always has.

The fears in the Cold War were replaced by fears of the environment. People had a reason to be afraid again and they leapt into reckless action. Of course, in a post 9/11 world, we have terrorism to fear, and certainly thats a reasonable reason to be afraid, but the environmentalist theories, misinformation and media cries starting panic everywhere have perpetuated it all since.

Western Civilization really is astonishing. Industrialized nations provide their citizens with unprecedented safety, health and comfort. Average lifespand increased 50% in the last century. Yet modern people live in abject fear. They are afraid of strangers, of disease, of crime, of the environment. They are afraid of the homes they live in, the food they eat, the technology that surrounds them. They are in particular panic over things they can't even see: germs, chemicals, additives, pollutants. They are timid, nervous, fretful and depressed. And even more amazingly, they are convinced that the environment of the entire planet is being detroyed around them. Remarkable! Like the belief in witchcraft, it's an extroardinary delusion; a global fantasy worthy of the Middle Ages. Everything is going to Hell and we must all live in fear. Amazing.

And the PLM constantly ravages the world like wolves seeking fresh new fears! It becomes so perpetuated that in our society the lines between truth and media bilge is blurred beyond all reason.

But even our own religious leaders, who we would expect to speak out join the chorus! They promote, "What would Jesus Drive?" as if they have forgotten that would Jesus would "drive" is the false prophets and fearmongers from the temple!

We are talking about a situation that is profoundly immoral. It is disgusting, if truth be told. The PLM callously ignores the plight of the poorest and most desperate human beings on our planet in order to keep fat politicians in office, rich new anchors on the air, conniving lawyers in Mercedes-Benz convertibles, and of course, university professors on Volvos.

Universities, once bastions of intellectual freedom, now the most restrictive environments in modern society. Because their new role was to create new fears for the PLM. They are fear factories, inventing all the new terrors and all the social anxieties. All the new restrictive codes, words you can't say, thoughts you can't think. Can't smoke, can't swear, can't screw, can't think. These institutions have been stood on their heads in a single generation, it is really quite extroardinary!

The notion that these institutions are liberal is a cruel joke. They are fascist to the core, I'm telling you!

I hope you realize you can't believe everything you see or hear in the media. If you don't then you are deluded like most modern human beings.
 
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J-Dude said:
The United States has spent billions of dollars on something that is no true threat if it exists at all. I know what you're thinking, "So what? We're rich,". But the fact is, only $25 billion is more than the total GDP of the poorest 50 nations in the world combined! Half the worlds population lives on an average 2 dollars a day. So that kind of money would have been enough to support thirty-four million people for a year. Or we could have helped all the people dying of AIDS in Africa. Instead, we piss it away on a fantasy published by magazines whose readers take it very seriously! Trust it! It is a stupendous waste of money! In another world, it would be a criminal waste.
I could have sworn you said that you would single handedly ensure this wasn't going to get political. Wow, you get more and more credible every minute.

Keep it up, see how much longer the discussion lasts.
 
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What's dabbling for ten seconds in todays society anyway...
 
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J-Dude said:
What's dabbling for ten seconds in todays society anyway...
The line isn't blurred for a reason. Keep pushing boundaries, see how far it gets you.
 
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What always gets me is this: There are people who do not believe global warming is happening. That's fine with me. But then they use their disbelief as an excuse not to try and be environmentally safe. It just bugs me that because they don't see a direct consequence to their actions they're fine with it.
 

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