ESF 1.2 too slow?

[SouLTeRRoR]

He said trick... not exploit... perahaps someone should lay off the coke...

Furthermore you can still get away from beamspam, just teleport, or beam jump...

All they have to do is det it, then boom your guts all over the place. When we could tele as much as our ki bar would allow, this wasn't a big problem. I usulay teled to them and hit them right away. Now it's like boom dead cuse I can only tele a couple times.

 

[Phatslugga]

Yeah.. they could have detonated it in 1.1 as well, with the same results.

You can still tele fast enough to get away, if you disagree, then you just can't do it, don't blame the team. I really can't beleive people getting so bent out of shape over such a tiny delay. Get used to it, it takes a bit more skill and timing to use the teleport now, that's how its going to stay. I constantly get away from beams in 1.2, if I have enough ki for 1-2 teleports. If it's a really big ass beam, i make sure to beamjump right after they fire the beam, it works. For those talking about being beamed after a melee battle, you should know that they're adding more invulnerability time.

 

[Ultimate 17]

I would suggest that the team doesn't put a cap on how far the swoop time period goes. I think things would seem a bit faster if we could just hold down on the forward arrow for as long as we want if we don't plan on changing another direction. I'm sure for ALOT of ppl you find yourself double-tapping side-ways directions so ur swoop doesn't stop because its just annoying and too slow to have ur swoop run out and then you have to double tap forward arrow again. No swoop cap would be nice just for getting around. If I'm aiming for the guy at the other side of esf_canyon (i think thats the name), I shouldn't have to double tap forward, double tap left before swoop stops, then double tap forward again just to keep my swoop going in the only direction I care to go. We should be able to spend our ki however we want. If we want to hold down forward arrow and swoop infinitely towards a corner of the map, then we should be able to. Its like having money and not being able to spend it as you please. >_>[for those who understand the comparison, hopefully you can understand my view.]. I don't see any negative drawbacks to the infinite swoop.

On a side note: Someone said that you can fool better in 1.2 because of the delayed teleport images. Well, to counter that-- 1.1 could have had the images as well i'm sure. I think if someone is relying on the images to fool his opponent, then his skill is a joke. Manuveuring tactics were used in 1.1 to fool your enemy and teleport images weren't needed if you were 'good enough'. Just my 2% of a dollar.

 

[Lord Kakaroto]

He is right, know need of a timelimit on how long you can swoop in a single direction. You dont see the characters on DBZ stopping and saying to each other "Hold on, i swooped in the same direction for too long, i have to start my swoop again."

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Without that time restriction there's no reason to use chain swooping, and it removes the strategy of figuring out just when his swoop will cut out and attacking him.

 

[SSJ Shin Carl]

im still mad at the teleport delay. Also for some reason double tap swooping seems a bit stiff to me. I think it should be more sensitive, and im tired of pressing a direction twice and he just moves a lil bit to that direction without swooping.

 

[sub]

It will be more sensitive in the 1.2.1 patch.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

1.) To Uub: Beamspam is an exploit too, just a different kind. I almost never die from beams; I blockstruggle them back at the dude and get myself some PL and a kill or two, or I power struggle it with my weak ass gallit gun and buy myself some time.

2.) I always play Vegeta and never get to transform. So I couldn't really beam spam if I wanted to.

3.) The difference between skill and an exploit is minimal, in a lot of things. Beam exploits are obvious--the SBC spam for instance. Melee exploits are seen as skill.

If you want to gauge the game by talent versus time played, well I was playing long before any of you even knew about this game. So basically, the game should revolve around my skills and you all should suck, by your logic of "noobs shouldn't have a chance."

I stand by my argument before: if you need warpspeed, instant across-the-map teleporting, and the ability to hit me three to four times while I am unable to respond to your actions, then I can understand why you're so upset. But if you can beat an average player at 1.1 speed and are only frustrated by 1.2's...well that's your problem, not the game's. We're players--we're supposed to play the game, not claim it's broken because our tricks don't work anymore.

Fortunately, since I never used any of these lame tactics, I have yet to be disappointed by a version of ESF. See how it works?

 

[Snow]

You seem to forget that we were all n00bs once, we all got our asses handed to us by the "1337s" however we trained and learned new ways to win, these new newbs do jack **** to get better and now u make it eaiser for them.

 

[SSJ Shin Carl]

which also makes us feel like we have wasted time at actually trying to get good at the game.

 

[MysticUub]

ok...u wanna go there with time played...u admitted yourself that u quit a few weeks ago and u dont play much...ive played this game EVERY DAY since right after 1.0 came out...sometimes 2 or 3 hrs at a time up until 1.2 was released...how long was it b4 u quit playing 1.1 because of the hows?...to put my point in plane english...ive played more than u even tho uve been here longer...posting on forums doesnt make u better...playing does...and every last one of thost things u listed either have a very simple counter...or they have very big risks for the person using them...lemme break it down for u...

"warpspeed"...if its so hard to target with this so called "warp speed" then y r u even worried about it?...play untransed and get what hits u can...but y punish the ppl that CAN use it effectively by lowering the speed? (which i know the reason is for transes so its not a big deal...)

"instant across-the-map teleporting"...i dont know how many times i have to point this out...but it is EXTREMELY hard to hit someone with it (given the fact that they acctually move around and play the game rather than sit in one spot and beam spam constantly)...not to mention that if the person misses...it takes most or even all of their ki...leaving them WIDE open for counter melee attack and/or beam spam...AND if they use it at the wrong time in a fight they would be catching up ki wise...which increases their chances of being killed...

"the ability to hit me three to four times while I am unable to respond to your actions"...i really dont care what anyone says...this took skill in 1.1...i played this game for almost a year b4 i finally was able to pull of combos effectivly...tru..they kinda nurfed it in 1.2...but they also limited it to two hits...unless u are hit just right into a sloped wall or somethin...and this also has a very simple counter...DONT GET HIT WITH THE FIRST HIT...if u can keep from getting hit..then whats the big deal?...if its so easy to get away from things with tele like u say it is...y r u so worried about it?...

the point of all this is EVERYTHING u gripe about...saying its exploits or something similar...ALL have some type of major drawback or some easy counter...if u dont wanna learn those counters...thats your fault...not ours...if u are the one getting hit by teles and stuff...thats your fault not ours...if u had spent the time learning these systems..and playing like we have u would understand where we are comming from..but u dont...so dont call our tactics exploits cause they arent...they were put into the game on purpose...so get over it...learn to get around it...if u spent as much time playing as u do trying to make us look like cheaters u would acctually be a challenge to someone...

 

[Jonesdaniel]

If the "instant teleports" were put in the game on purpose why were they taken out because of exploit ?
The team, the people who make the game how they want it took it out because it was never meant to be exploited like that in the first place. Its thier game, and they can decide to do with it whatever they like to get things out that they didn't want in.

 

[sub]

If the "instant teleports" were put in the game on purpose why were they taken out because of exploit ?
The team, the people who make the game how they want it took it out because it was never meant to be exploited like that in the first place. Its thier game, and they can decide to do with it whatever they like to get things out that they didn't want in.

The reason the teledelay is in is because of scripts (which I think was a mistake since I rarely saw anyone useing scripts). The teleing across the map with scripts was very unfair imo, but they shouldn't have put the teledelay in. It punishes people that didn't use scripts (almost everyone) since they can no longer teleport fast. I can't even describe how much I hate the teledelay, it slows down the game so much. I can't even play esf with a ping over 70 now.... It's ridiculous.

What they should do is take away the teledelay at pings over 150 because theres a delay in teleporting at that ping anyway or make it so the teleport delay only comes into play after the first teleport (This is like the 10th time I'm suggesting this...).

 

[MysticUub]

i realize they can put it in or take it out if they want...and i know i cant do anything about it...but im not gonna sit here and listen to someone call every aspect of the old melee system exploits...cause thats just bs...there was ONE exploit with the old melee system...that was HOWing...melee combos were skill...and anyone that can do them can atest to that....tele hits took skill...and even a little bit of luck...anyone that ever used them can atest to that...it takes skill to hit someone moving at high speed...and anyone that can do it can atest to it...anyone that cant do these things are the ones that complain about it...calling ppl cheaters and exploiters...and what gets me...is most of them that complain...dont even play the game anymore...so y should they have the right to call ANYTHING exploits?...they dont even play the game enuff to know what a real exploit is...

 

[TehMuffinMan]

there was ONE exploit with the old melee system...that was HOWing

riight, problem with that, the entire meelee system is a big exploit then.. all you try to do is hit your opponent after they swooped, that melee system ment everyone was constantly calling eachother as every successful hit is techniquely a HOW.. hence 1.2's meele is bettoh :O

The reason the teledelay is in is because of scripts

the old "script" was really just binding your tele button to your mousewheel, then one quick roll and across the map you went into an apponent waiting for you to move, cheap or what, couldnt of asked for more than a delay =)

tele hits took skill...and even a little bit of luck

mmyep, that took major skill.. power up, aim onto your opponent and thrash that mousewheel while holding right click, omg its like trying to spell again..the melee system there was pretty much entire luck too, holding right click and thrashing that mouse around the table isnt being "l33t", and aparrantly "n00bs" are people who use less exploits that you.. either that or they hit you and whole "HOWer" thing starts again =D

and will people stop the whole "training" and "pride" thing? it bugs me since its a game.. not some alternate version for exsistance -_-

 

[Phatslugga]

I think some people just don't fully understand what an exploit is.

exploit - To make use of selfishly or unethically

Exploits aren't "put" in the game, they're discovered by players that take advantage of part of a game. The ESF team didn't intend players to make scripts so they could teleport across the map, they didn't want people to sit around like retards and wait till the last second to swoop and win head-ons. You could almost treat them as a bug, they're discovered, and the team fixes them if needed.


1.1 exploits
- HOW, LSM
- Teleport scripts
- no way to detect AIMBOT without the new SDK camera

now, there are only 3 that I can think of, but they're all you needed to make yourself a god in ESF if need be. All 3 of these exploits are gone, good riddance.

1.2 explots
.... wait a minute... there are none!

shijing has a point, if the melee system in 1.1 has a big flaw like that, then the whole system is pretty much flawed. I'm proud to say I rarely ever HOWed or LSMed, if I ever did, it was becuase of an accident, or I w as sinking to someones level to piss them off. However if I was fighting seriously, then I wouldn't HOW at all, but almost every server, there'd be at least one retard who accuses me of HOWing... EVEN IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS. I ask them how I was howing, and they always give me some sort of answer, that doesn't really answer my question, instead completley avoids it, and just accuses me again. 1.1 was great but in comparison to 1.2 it sucks. I don't know why people call it noob friendly either, If that was the case, then I'd have trouble with noobs, but I don't :/.

 

[sub]

When I said scripts, I was referring to binding more then one teleport to a button, not the mousewheel is which probably even more cheap.

riight, problem with that, the entire meelee system is a big exploit then.. all you try to do is hit your opponent after they swooped, that melee system ment everyone was constantly calling eachother as every successful hit is techniquely a HOW.. hence 1.2's meele is bettoh :O

The entire melee system could either be based on howing or hitting people from the side/behind. It was just how you played. Don't think everyone in 1.1 howed. HOW = head on whore. How could you say every hit is a head on? Oh yea, I'm sure a hit from behind is a head on. And If anything, howing made you work harder to be good because you would want to prove theres a way to win without being cheap.

I think some people just don't fully understand what an exploit is.

exploit - To make use of selfishly or unethically

Exploits aren't "put" in the game, they're discovered by players that take advantage of part of a game. The ESF team didn't intend players to make scripts so they could teleport across the map, they didn't want people to sit around like retards and wait till the last second to swoop and win head-ons. You could almost treat them as a bug, they're discovered, and the team fixes them if needed.


1.1 exploits
- HOW, LSM
- Teleport scripts
- no way to detect AIMBOT without the new SDK camera

now, there are only 3 that I can think of, but they're all you needed to make yourself a god in ESF if need be. All 3 of these exploits are gone, good riddance.

1.2 explots
.... wait a minute... there are none!

You could make yourself a god in esf without those cheap tricks.

1) Howing imo was useless since it was so easy to counter if you knew how, no one that used howing was a god. If you wanted to make yourself seem good, this was the thing Not to do.

2) Teleport scripts. These were very cheap, but like I said, almost no one used them. Name more then 10 people you found in esf that you knew used them. I know as hell I can't. Actaully, I can only name one and I use to play esf about every day .

3) Aimbot?!?! Well jesus christ, ofcourse you'll be god with aimbot. What type of lame excuss is that? In almost any game first person shooter or third person shooter you'll be a god with aimbot. Including 1.2..

Now, you say theres no exploits in 1.2? That's just pure bs. There are and will be exploits in every game you play, no matter what.

 

[Phatslugga]

1) there were a few that were extremely good at it, I was good at countering it, but some people just knew how to do it well.
2) I encountered a teleport script user countless times
3) I didn't say aImbot itself was an exploit, I said the fact that you couldn't detect it was. People could use it without fear of being caught. You could accuse them, but you'd never have accurate proof. Now it's a different story with SDK.

Name an exploit in 1.2, that can equate to an exploit in 1.1... hell, name one at all that really affects the gameplay at all.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

The tele delay is barely noticeable. Nobody has figured out yet that you can teleport 8 times in one second (first teleport starting at 0.0 seconds). That is 4 times in half a second which is plenty if you have your eyes open and know what's going on. If you're complaining about getting away from detonations, it's because you didn't see the beam coming, and the beam is going to do what it is designed to do which is kill you if you're close enough when it goes off.

The more 1.0 and 1.1 you played the better you are in 1.2, and there is no denying that. You're hand eye coordination is good, you're swifter with teleports, you know how to aim a beam more effectively. You have an advantage, so use it. If advanced melee isn't working for you don't use it unless it's used on you and you maintain the advantage.

Lastly, I'll note that, to those who are concerned with having wasted time getting good at 1.0 / 1.1 -> Will you be playing ESF in ten years? How about three or four? Maybe two? Will you make a career out of it? If you answered yes to all those than your concerns are legitimate, but you'll make up for it in a year or so. If not, well, what is the problem? All games are a "waste of time" unless you're playing for money or your job requires awesome hand-eye coordination. We're playing to kill time and have fun, and it wont follow you into the workplace most of the time, so don't freak out over not being as good as you were in 1.0 . Eventually you wont even be playing so who cares? Just have fun while you're still playing, don't get all caught up on crap like the game changing around, pretend it's a new game.

 

[MysticUub]

yea...u cant use an aimbot in esf...unless its for the instant shot things like finger/eye lazer...other than that its useless...i know at least 3 ppl that have used aimbots and told me that u cant use it for melee...and unless u have done it...and not been beaten because it works...keep your mouth shut cause u dont know what ur talking about...and yes...the whole melee system was flawed because of HOWing...but having teleports like they were was a nice counter to that...if someone was stupid enuff to sit there and wait for u to swoop they deserved to get hit in the face with a instant tele...its THEIR fault...guess what...all u had to do was keep moving...even if it wasnt a swoop...u didnt even have to have turbo on and u could dodge it...so apparently u were one of those ppl that got hit with it over and over becauase if u didnt...y do u even care?...what difference does it make if it didnt effect u?...then...u say..OMG THE MELEE SYSTEM SUCKED CAUSE EVERYONE HOWed...bs...i never howed...noone in my clan ever howed (on purpose)...so for u to sit there and accuse an entire community of abusing somethin like that just because u saw it a lot is dumb...and like hybrid said...i challenge ANYONE on these forums to name 10 ppl that they knew...beyond the shadow of a doubt...used tele scripts while fighting...i know i cant...and i played in just about every server there was in 1.1...the only person i can think of that ever used a tele script was draylock...if u wanna talk abot scripts...i know SEVERAL ppl that everyone in this community can identify with because of the clans they were in...but they ALL used scripts...not tele scripts either...they had scripts that all they had to do is hold one button and they would tele and charge all at the same time untill they let go of the button...they also had scripts that they could push and hold a button..and it would switch to and fire either buus candy...or frieza's finger lazer untill they let go then it would switch back....u dont hear anyone *****in about those do u...y?..because u didnt even know they were there...i dont know how many times i was accused of being an aimbotter or hacker or script user etc in 1.1...im even still accused of that in 1.2...but i know i dont use scripts...i take that as a compliment...it means that ive gotten good at the game and the ppl are too ignorant to comprehend that u can do stuff like that without cheating...so just because someone can win more than lose...doesnt mean they are using scripts hacks or exploits...and to assume so is ignorant and reckless...like i said b4...there was ONE exploit in 1.1 that didnt have a relatively obvious counter or drawback...and that was HOWing...and honestly...if ur complaining about HOWing...its half your fault...it takes 2 ppl to how...if u were being howed it was because u were going head on all the time...if u would hit at the side then u wouldnt have to worry about it now would u..


"Name an exploit in 1.2, that can equate to an exploit in 1.1... hell, name one at all that really affects the gameplay at all."

hmm....anyone else think of the "stun time" after melee and getting beamed because of it? id say that effects the game play more than howing ever did...at least if u wanted to u could get away from howing...