Beta Testing Reinforcements

[Chakra-X]

I think he meant before he got a better computer, but your second point is a good point Kain =P

edit: damn I thought he'd post before me -_-

Well they have Sarutobi Sensei testing, who I have heard, is the best player at ESF, don't know if it is total or in America, so I would think he has a good view what the pros would want.

But, would a large amount of esf pros make the game better overall? A lot of them ignore certain attacks/maneuvers that only appeal to the "newcomers" of the game. If it was all pros, they'd like it to cater to their competitive style, which is great in essence for the game, but ESF is not always a battle of who can outmanuever each other using melee.

I don't even think the beta tester get the last say on what happens to the mod or not. I think they are mostly there to just to see if something works right, search for glitches, etc. A balance of both Pro, decent and average players will work well towards esf, to cater to a larger audience and possibly merging the likes so that both newbie and pro can enjoy themselves in the same server.

 

[Chang Wufei]

Charka I agree with you, but as it stands now. A lot of the attacks in ESF cant be used in real fights effectivley, its the pros that brought beams into fights, and made them work, so if it was a whole staff of pro's testing, then I think they would make it work towards their competative play, but they would also make the other useless attacks have some usefulness in real fights, which would make the game tons better Imo. And although the team may have Saru which is considered the best player in ESF, he doesnt make up all of our opinions, nor does that mean that he can make up for all the newbs on the team, im suggesting a testing team made of all pro's, not just one.

 

[Skiwan]

And I dont think thats fair, cuz I dont want some nub ruining 1.3 like 1.2 was...

If you have a suggestion, make it, because if there is anything good in the suggestion section, it does get brought up in meetings and discussed in the same detail as tester suggestions/team suggestions, regardless of who suggests it. I promise you.

btw, we're already working on a huge attack change list to make them more useful, just so you know.

 

[|Overlord|]

Charka I agree with you, but as it stands now. A lot of the attacks in ESF cant be used in real fights effectivley, its the pros that brought beams into fights, and made them work, so if it was a whole staff of pro's testing, then I think they would make it work towards their competative play, but they would also make the other useless attacks have some usefulness in real fights, which would make the game tons better Imo. And although the team may have Saru which is considered the best player in ESF, he doesnt make up all of our opinions, nor does that mean that he can make up for all the newbs on the team, im suggesting a testing team made of all pro's, not just one.

I agree with you there, I want to see more usefullness for signature attacks in competative play as I find them widely useless. It would allow for different amounts of damage in a competative fight rather then just being limited to using ki blast and gen beams/balls to deal your damage with ki attacks in fights that mainly consist of basic melee (I know that melee is gonig to be redone, but I'd like to see a use for signature attacks more often in competative play as mentioned). If you play as Frezia or Piccolo, you can use there laser attacks in melee fights, so you realyl aren't limited to what attack you can use in competative play (depending on what rules are agreed on by both players, it may be ki blasts & gen attacks only, but this usually works for competative play in a pub most of the time).

 

[Chang Wufei]

Then you understand my point overlord, Pro's arent worried about models, or buddy system, or characters, we're worried about the REAL gameplay of the mod. Something that a lot of new people arent. Theyre usually more worried on how to get a fusion working, or how to make a buddy system work. Or a small fix, but pro's look at the big stuff.

And David, consider this thread and my posts in it my suggestion, because im gonna retype everything I did earlier, just to know its gonna be ignored. Bring this thread up at your next meeting with the actual Team, not the beta testers because their opinions would be biased due to them possibly dissagreeing with the idea just to keep their testing spot.

 

[Skiwan]

I dont even attend the beta meetings anymore. Sure i'll bring it up, but we've discussed the same things before at length. We had 2 almost 3 hour meetings soley on the attack changes. Maybe you dont know but the buddy system will have a drastic effect on the gameplay. We hardly ever talk about models, models are just in the pipeline as it were, the modelers/skinners know whats needed and thats not really a problem. 75% of the talk in meetings is gameplay, the rest is PR and community, and random things like sprite idea's that could be in.

I agree with you, pro testers would be a good addition for the beta testers (like there arent already ) , but you have to remember, we have to consider everyone who could pick up esf, not just pro players. Remember the days of 1.0 development? not many pro players were beta testers then, and that was the release that got most of the pro players into esf.

 

[Phobius]

Beta testing isn't depended on skills for one. Do you think when new games come out that companies just design in their head are pro's from the beginning? No sir they are not they play around with everything and learn as they go and find as many bugs as they can. Remember also that 1.3 will probably not be like 1.2.3 at all and who knows whats going to be changed around. So you might be pro in esf 1.2.3 right now but you could become a noob in 1.3 so really to be a pro or not to test is meaningless and stupid to argue about. The main thing they look at is your activity. Great if your a pro but what if you only play esf once or twice a week? When someone who has a good activity record and plays esf not everyday but close to it and is not a pro? Who would you pick?

As far as how many times we play esf 1.2.3 I play everyday if I can. I own my own server " >>[UltimateSaiyans]<< Clan Server 66.165.126.215:27015 " I enjoy playing around with the current community and see how everyone is progressing and how many noobies are becoming advanced players with lessons from the good players.

Chang Wufei just because you weren't selected to beta test don't come whining on the boards about it.

 

[Skyrider]

Many jealous people around here

 

[Fire Phoenix]

I'd love to know what skill has anything to do with finding bugs...

It doesn't take any skill to find a bug. So you don't need top notch players to find bugs in esf. So congradulations on your new testing positions. I'm going to bake that pie, and then I'm going to give a 100 foot high 300 foot long pice of pie to everyone on these forums.

 

[starwin]

Chang... I don't know how else to say this other then "it is the ESF Team's decision." I'm pretty sure they can decide who tests out their mod and who doesn't.

BTW, congrats you three. Make us proud.

 

[Kaination]

Hey guys. I just talked to Zeonix + Chang Wufei about this.

This is their idea, in plain and simple.

Since being a pro at ESF, you will find more bugs. Pro's generally know what to look for. If you suck at ESF and arent good, all you will see is "Hey I join this map and it crashes, bug!" and thats pretty much how far, but if you were a pro, you would find the tinyiest of bugs and be able to find the smallest things. It doesn't matter how good you are at finding bugs or anything, all that matters is if you're good at ESF.

So in all, if you are really good at esf, you'll automatically know what to look for.

Ya, I get it, but its a retarded idea.

I got kicked later.

 

[KidMan]

Many jealous people around here

I would agree on this one Sky. Run for your life!!!

 

[Adaptus]

What Chang or anyone else says doesn't matter to me.

I earned it. I just feel sad for him he has to be so stuck up and jealous about it, hijacking the thread with his text walls of doom that I won't even bother to read.

The Test Team is diverse enough in skill to be able to find bugs and exploits.

Also, the argument that more pros = more bugs finding is wrong. Pros tend to be rigid and unflexible in their ways, having adopted a fighting style that is powerful but does hardly change.

 

[KidMan]

What Chang or anyone else says doesn't matter to me.

I earned it. I just feel sad for him he has to be so stuck up and jealous about it, hijacking the thread with his text walls of doom that I won't even bother to read.

The Test Team is diverse enough in skill to be able to find bugs and exploits.

Also, the argument that more pros = more bugs finding is wrong. Pros tend to be rigid and unflexible in their ways, having adopted a fighting style that is powerful but does hardly change.

I agree with Shiyojin 100%

 

[Kaination]

What Chang or anyone else says doesn't matter to me.

I earned it. I just feel sad for him he has to be so stuck up and jealous about it, hijacking the thread with his text walls of doom that I won't even bother to read.

The Test Team is diverse enough in skill to be able to find bugs and exploits.

Also, the argument that more pros = more bugs finding is wrong. Pros tend to be rigid and unflexible in their ways, having adopted a fighting style that is powerful but does hardly change.

Thank you.

Now....

Steering this topic back... on topic.

Congrats.

PARTY AT MY HOUSE YESTERDAY

BE THAR OR BE SQUARE

 

[Skyrider]

[align=center]

PARTY AT MY HOUSE YESTERDAY

XD, Shame i missed it. I'm actually glad with my Beta Testing Position, I almost got a heart attack though when i heard about this. I think i'm not the only one . And does my signature looks oke now that i've centered it?[/align]

 

[Adaptus]

XD, Shame i missed it. I'm actually glad with my Beta Testing Position, I almost got a heart attack though when i heard about this. I think i'm not the only one .

Same for me. When I got the PM yesterday, I almost fell out of my chair.

Then when I read it, I almost exploded with excitement, which is rare for me. XD

I hope I can be of some use to the Team. I really love ESF so I hope I can help make it even better. :3 I'll do my best, guys. o/

 

[Skyrider]

[align=center]

Same for me. When I got the PM yesterday, I almost fell out of my chair.

Then when I read it, I almost exploded with excitement, which is rare for me. XD

Heh, that's nothing. I screamed like a little girl, now that's pathetic ^_^.[/align]

 

[Rayne]

That quote you have Kain is far from anything I heard either Zeonix or Chang say. You obviously have either misunderstood what was explained to you or are frustrated about being kicked.

I have the same concern now that I think about it, more pros would make a better testing team. There are aspects of the game that newb or avg players dont see and therfor are unable to test to its full depth. Of course they are still needed to test the game from a non pro's perspective but my concern is the lack of a pro's perspective. There are one or two pro players testing but a few more are needed to get the best result on the level of the game that pro's are familiar with imo. Yes 1.3 will be different but from design documents and such it seems that it will not be a completely foreign game to the current version. Even if pros do turn out to be noobs at the new version they will help the game retain the depth of skill it has now in the differences implemented in 1.3. Im not saying newbs or avg players are useless as beta testers, Im saying it seems somewhat unbalanced right now and imo a majority of pro players with less newbs is best.

Also some of you think that by saying this one is jealous for not being a beta tester . Its really absolutely nowhere near the reason that I am concerned. I play this game every day and I really want 1.3 to turn out the best possible for both pros and newbs, thats the reason I want a more balanced testing team.

 

[Chang Wufei]

I find it funny how you all think im jealous, but the fact of the matter is I dont care that I didnt make beta tester, because I didnt try out for it. I didnt ask to be one, I didnt ask how to be one, and I didnt even know you guys were recruiting for them. I just saw who was picked for it, and noticed the mistake.

And I can see how it is a little rude to think "if you suck at ESF you cant beta test" but the honest fact of the matter is that pro's play more so they know more. the beta testers now may know the basics but Pro's know the mechanics, pro's know what to look for when it comes to bugs, as to where people who arent good at the game wouldnt know how to find them because they arent good at the game, so they never notice things that effect gameplay, like getting stuck after you get double hit in mid air for a split second longer than you should be and not being able to swoop forward towards your enemy without sliding off of him. But pro's notice things like that.

Sure people who play a lot are good to have as a beta tester, but who plays the most obviously? Pro's or average players? Pro's obviously. So they would be Ideal for beta testers.

Now I understand that Not every game starts out with pro beta testers, and thats true, but consider the fact that the majority of the pro's have been here since the previous versions, they have the experience in what was good about the old versions and what was bad, and this isnt a new mod, its been around for a while so your example doesnt entirley apply. I doubt shiyojin remembers 1.1 or was even around when it came out. But pros have been here since before then, so they know whats good and whats bad due to pure experience.

The fact of the matter is that as big as this forum may be, less than half of the forum still plays activly. So why make them beta testers? Dont beleive me?
http://forum.esforces.com/showpost.php?p=679802&postcount=2
http://forum.esforces.com/showpost.php?p=679805&postcount=4
Wow shiyojin WOULD be a great beta tester because hes so active in the forums, so of course he would know a lot about actually playing.
Grega, he plays, but as far as I know he doesnt really have the experience to find the meaningful bugs that will effect hardcore fights. Skyrider, ive never heard of this guy except for on the forums, so im lead to beleive that he rarley plays, if you would like to prove me wrong skyrider you can play me whenever, and prove me wrong.

Overall the fact that some people just post a lot and rarley play doesnt seem like a good idea for stnadards on recruiting beta testers. Lets face it, beta testers have to know the game their testing otherwise they wont know whats wrong, getting a variety of skills is a nice idea for some things, but not beta testing. You need to know what your doing, and unless you know the game well, you wont know whats supposed to be there and what isnt.

As for you Kain, I brought you into another server, we fought we discussed why we were pushing for less newbie beta testers, and after all your points had been disproven you decided to completly stray from the convo and repeatedly ask if anyone had 'ever had a broken nose', not only that but you blatantly said you didnt care about the game, because you play other games more, which is something we pointed out to you, and after a while you admitted. you said that the team should be left alone, and if they choose to ruin ESF then let them. Which shows how little you really care for the game, ask anyone who was there (Zeonix, Rayne) So yes kain, you were kicked, because you dont care about ESF, you put E-friends before the mod, and thats not the way jobs should be assigned, they should be assigned to the people who can do them best. Not because theyre nice. And your summary of what we said is completley wrong, we only said pros had more experience and knew what to look for when it came to bugs in gameplay.

Also shiyo your statement " Pros tend to be rigid and unflexible in their ways, having adopted a fighting style that is powerful but does hardly change." is completly wrong, Pros learn to adapt, any pro can tell you in order to be good you have to adapt to your oponents style, so your pretty wrong on that. You would've known that, but you dont play ESF

Overall I have to be honest. I like the game ESF, and Ive been around it for a while, I started in 1.1 and loved it, moved to 1.2 liked it for a week and stopped like everyone else. I like other pro's want this game to turn out to be its best possible, I dont want to see it get thrown away because it wasn't fully thought through. If its gonna be the last version, then you better beleive im gonna be pushing for it to be tested the best, do everything I can to make it the best version.