*Long **response!*
Pain said:
so tell me.... if we are not supposed to speculate
1) why has the team released any info at all?
2) why havent all the 1.2 threads based on what has been released been closed by now?
So wait... you are using the excuse "They didn't tell us everything, therefore, I can tell them that their ideas aren't any good." That cannot be rationally justified. Actually, let's break it down.
1.) "So tell me, [if we are not supposed to speculate] 1, [why has the team released any information at all?] 2"
Your unwritten conclusion[1] is that you should be allowed to speculate publicly. Your premise is that the team released information [2], and therefore, we should be able to make half-truths based on what little information we have recieved. This is a mistake in logical reasoning which translates roughly into:
"The team gave us some information, therefore, the team will not give us all of the information."
Since you are attacking the melee system now, and not waiting for the team to finish informing the public as to what its final plans are for the melee system, you in turn are assuming that they are not going to release final plans until shortly before the release of 1.2 . This is a mistake in reasoning as well. "They did not tell me, therefore, they will not ever tell me." Appeal to Ignorance fallacy; you don't know, therefore you assume.
If you *do* believe that the team will release additional information before the release of 1.2, and will squelch the majority of suggestive speculation across the forums, then your posts to this point are effectively puposeless and unjustified. As you are arguing that these suggestions have merit, you must surely be following the prior statement I made of "They did not tell me, therefore, they will not ever tell me" as justification of why you should complain about things that have not yet been installed into place, and you are complaining out of fear of what they may sneak into 1.2 before it is finished. The reality of the situation is that they are not going to "sneak" in anything significant or gameplay-altering before the release, you are simply being impatient and stirring up a ruccus to maintain the illusion that you have some kind of power over events which have yet to occur through complaining and starting controversies.
Anyway, I'm off on a tangent. On to statement two.
"So tell me... [If we are not supposed to speculate] 1 [why havent all the 1.2 threads based on what has been released been closed by now?]" 2
Missing conclusion: We are supposed to speculate publicly.
Premise: "Other threads containing suggestions have not been closed."
Argument: "Other threads containing suggestions about 1.2 melee have not been closed, therefore, we are supposed to speculate publicly."
Fallacy: Bandwagon. "Other people are doing it, therefore, we are supposed to do it."
Reason: Those threads haven't been closed because the forums have not yet come to the conclusion that these discussions are causing a significant backlash from the community. That does not mean that they will not be closed, and that does not mean that it was correct for these threads filled with unjustifiable assumptions to have been developed in the first place. In your reasoning is, in fact, that other people are doing something that you know is wrong and therefore you are compelled to follow suit, that is the "Two Wrongs Make a Right" fallacy, which is also a popular misconception. Just because somebody else got away with it doesn't mean that you should abuse the system.
These threads will be closed if this becomes too much of a problem or the team gets fed up with the speculation. I'm not telling you that you *can't* speculate I'm telling you that you have no justification for going off of the handle over parts of the game you have never seen in action and that have not *yet* been fully explained to you. You are jumping to conclusions before you have been presented with all of the evidence and trying to persuade others that the team has done something wrong when you try to make a case against the current melee system (appeal to ignorance).
You don't know how the team is going to respond so you jump ahead and rebuild the melee system for them. That doesn't help anybody with anything. Unless you are coding a new one, or you have beta tested the *finished* version of 1.2 melee, no one will take you seriously, and therefore these threads are filled with flammable spam and cannot be condoned by the moderating staff (or at the very least myself).
I hope that helps you understand why I do not support the creation of these pointless threads.
Now, in response to Final Vegeta: "Nothing should be automated in a game, it takes away the very essence of playing a game." When you fire a kamehameha, should you have to press a complex series of buttons to make sure that each of Goku's fingers are in the right place to fire the kamehameha ahead of him, or would you rather just aim the beam after it launches out of his hands? Firing that kamehameha is automated, just like 1.2's melee animations are automated. You still have to charge up the attacks, and you still have to dodge and defend against the attacks, and the entire time that you are doing battle you either charging attacks or defending against attacks until the time runs out. If you would rather the melee wasn't animated and the characters just stood there that is another issue entirely. You are accusing the melee of being automated when it is only as automated as any other animation in ESF, be it jumping, swooping, firing a beam, or smashing. It's just a pretty visual to watch while you are doing the real fighting charging combos and blocking them.
"I don't like it to be auto, why ned do a combo on your keyboard to get a nice melee combo that would take precise timing and that would take skill" I'm not sure what that means... I *assume* you are telling me that 1.2 melee doesn't require you to use your keyboard and precise timing and charging, which is incorrect, because that is the very essence behind 1.2's melee system. You are trying to charge up either confusing combonations that are hard for your opponent to follow, or power combos, which have yet to be introduced to the community (as they have not been coded yet), which are more difficult to defend against and cause more damage than simply mashing buttons.
"Making stuff auto makes a game boring" Again remember that nothing in 1.2's melee is automated except for the pretty little dance the characters do. You are the one doing all of the punching and blocking, not the computer.
"Get rid of the automation. (And I mean ANY automation)" The only thing about 1.2 that is automated is the close combat *after* punches are thrown and defended against. Swooping is automated isn't it? Charge up a swoop and you just go without assistence. That is an automated process that you just kick into gear, just like melee (although a thousand times less complex than melee). If we took out swooping we'd all be moving frustratingly slow. How about block struggles and power struggles? All you do during those is hold down a button. Sometimes you let go of the button and then press it again later. That is an automated process of power level and ki being number cruched to determined which direction the beam is moving. If we got rid of that the beams would just go through each other.
You assume that because melee is pretty that it isn't going to involve the players. That just frankly is incorrect, and I'm not sure what gave you that impression.