A REALLY big idea list

[Ravendust]

Sorry if i'm not going to type up as long a reply, I mean, it's great that you take an interest but you typed up 10,538 words on the first try and 8887 words on the second, thats 19,425 words (33 pages) total, or almost two University masters-degree theses'.

Working from what Grega has already said, you clearly haven't read the one sticky that says 'Before you post...' as a LOT of it (Kaioken, Battle Damage, Instant Transmission, Terrain Damage e.t.c.) is covered in it. Another thing it states is that you're supposed to make a seperate thread per each idea, this is a good example of why you should do that. You've covered just about every aspect of the game, it's engine and it's possiblities in a single thread.

I think it's incrediably strange that you "haven't seen much of the show" and yet wrote the longest post on the forum, you've covered most of the show right there.

I'm not trying to be a mod or break your spirit, but i'm sure if you cut this down to things like 'Possible melee improvements' or something people would be a lot more accepting and willing to read and comment.

Anyway, picking up from where Grega left off, he summarised it so I haven't commented on anything before the 'Goku's Sword' part:

Melee Manouvers - This is what Adv Melee is for, he had his own combo's, and with Adv Melee you make your own combos, there's no need for preset combos with this.

Instant Transmission - This too is implemented, when Goku teleports DURING a move, thats instant transmission.

Kaioken - To sum up the hundreds of words on Kaioken (although King Kai's Fist is it's literal translation, it was never called that), it says in the sticky not to suggest it, frankly I think it would imbalance the game, a big speed/power boost in a balanced game would not work.

Pissed-off Saiyan - You described Giji or 'False' Super Saiyan, I don't mean to sound rude but the thread on this is just a week old, how can you expect us to read all of this if you don't read short, to-the-point threads on the same page? I believe this falls into the 'movie content' clause, and seeing as it's been suggested on another thread I don't feel any further comment is necessary.

Saiyan Forms: We know these and so do the team, it's a DBZ mod for DBZ fans, they're being added for 1.3 and there's an outline in ESF Chat with all the forms. As for Gohan aging as a trans I don't think this would look good at all, ascending to SS or SS2 is an actual transformation, aging in seconds is not.

Super Kamehameha - I think you have some misunderstandings about the nature of ki, Ki/Chi/Qi/Spirit/Energy is all the same thing, as it diminishes you get weaker until unconsciousness or in extreme cases, death. It is used offensively in energy attacks but if you use toomuch then you run the risk of damaging yourself. Tien mentions this when trying to destroy Kid Goku with the Tribeam/Ki Blast Cannon/Spirit Cannon/Kikoho/Shinkikoho, whatever you call it. Again, Super (or Chou) Kamehameha is mentioned in the sticky.

Father-Son Kamehameha - Seeing as 'powergifting' is movie/gt, this is a bit redundant. If SS2 Gohan fires a fully-charged Kamehameha and SS Goku fires one into it to strengthen it (which can currently be done, bar the transformations) then that's basically a Father-Son Kamehameha right there, no need for a seperate system.

Moves - Budokai made up a lot of attacks to balance it as a fighting game, you can't really borrow attacks from it, a lot of them are in ESF as it is. 'Justice Kick' is just a basic melee strike in ESF for instance.

Krillin: Yeah, he couldn't do that disc thing. Bug reports go into the bug report forum or mantis tracker.

'Mystic Krillin' and 'Unlock Potential' are one and the same, Guru unleashed a bit of Krillin's potential, which is what Ancient Kai did to Gohan but more drastically.

Special Beam Cannon - It says in the 1.3 outline that you are now able to detatch from it.

Light Grenade/Choubakurhatsuha - Suggested before a lot, i'm pretty sure it's going in alongside Makosen.

Galick Gun - There's a Galick Gun thead two inches (on a 17" monitor) below this one that covers everything you said on this topic.

Telekinetics: Mode 1 exists in the form of Telekinesis which is already in, and as for the second attack, you've posted few details (the irony is not lost on me) on how it would work, in the show it was a no-charge attack, is that how you invision it?

USS - Mentioned countless times in the 1.3 outline.

Frieza Form 5 - Cooler went to this form but Frieza died before he could. And Frieza could use Deathball in his normal form (blowing up Planet Vegeta) but it's his trans move in ESF.

Everything else is covered in the sticky or 1.3 outline.

THE END!!

To summarise:

-Unbalance
-Already Covered
-Ficticious (AF if you like) Content (Frieza form 5, Goku's sword e.t.c.)

Don't take offence to anything i've said, just learn from your mistake.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

ERR.....yeah. Read the Advanced Melee section Darkowns! I suggest an ENTIRELY different system for Advanced Melee

sorry your post was just to long i only have enough time to skim it

 

[Solodric]

Ravendust: Did you really read the thing, or just skim it? Many of the things you went over were different in my summarized/updated version of the post, and many things you pointed out were noted in my post, as well.

First off: I HAVE read the sticky. This whole idea list is just what I feel ESF should be made into on a whole - including hackneyed ideas. I noted that I HAD read many of the other ideas out there, and if this one was redundant on them, it was just to re-emphasize the desire for those implementations in my idea. Many of the things, even if they wouldn't work well in current ESF, might work well should my system be implemented....on to the rest of the reply.

Breaking it apart seems like a good idea, yes, and I probably will.

Melee Combos: You need to read my melee suggestion in my REVISED post. regardless: There are many combos characters could do in the show that are impossible currently (Such as Trunks' Burning Slash combo) which Melee Maneuvers would cover. Thats what that is for. IT SHOULD BE NOTED: Melee manuevers are NOT "Combos". I dislike the current combo system, because the characters all use the same combinations (and basicly get the same combo attacks, with a few different animations) it's nothing at all like the melee manuevers I suggest. I personally think Combos should be taken out, and you'll notice nothing about them in my entire idea (AKA: They wont exist, should my idea be implemented) the reason for this is because this is ESF, not DMZ, and using button combinations seems to bring it more into the realm of a DMZ-esque fighting system.

Instant Transmission: He can use SuperSpeed while charging attacks, when transformed, but that doesn't really grab what he could do in the show. I've been mulling this over, and I think there should be a key or something you can hit to target someone, hitting it again retargets them (With a different colored box), the first target makes you teleport right in front of them when you use superspeed next, the second is right behind them instead. Just an idea, but it would let Goku do his Warp KameHameHa just like he does it in Budokai *Shrug*

King Kai Fist (Kaioken): so I like to use the proper translation so sue me. As for it being too powerfull: So don't make it extremely powerfull? It gets stronger as Goku gets stronger, up to 20x (Which comes sometime between SS and SS2) and since Goku takes so long to get Super Saiyan compared to anyone else, and unlike Vegeta has no Ultra/Ultimate super saiyan transformations in between, Goku's transformation strength would come from slight boosts from Kaioken early on. (Maybe start him with an extra-low Powerlevel to reflect this?)

pissed off saiyan: This isn't in my revised idea - took it out because even though it happens in the SHOW (Not just the movie, apparently. A friend of mine has the entire series on tapes and he confirmed, I'll ask for episode number) it doesnt make a PL difference, to my surprise. And I DID read that thread, actually. To clarify: the "Half-Super" form comes when a saiyan is ANGRY enough to go SuperSaiyan but not POWERFULL enough, if I remember. I will check: Don't bother posting further on it since it isn't in my revised, anyway.

Saiyan Forms: Good, you know them. So do I. I want them in, so they're there also: As far as Gohan goes, I put in an alternate way to handle it in my revised: He changes when he dies and has enough powerlevel.

Super KameHameHa: Actually, I know quite about about Ki, Chi, and other forms of energy, and they ARE different in MANY ways. However, in DBZ, it's all about Ki, not any other energy, so I digress: Gohan actually INJURED himself by using the Super KameHameHa, it was so taxing on his body to use ki that way it injured him, if I remember correctly. I will recheck this.

Father-Son KameHameHa: The idea isn't to combine two KameHameHa's so much as it is to share the burden of a Super KameHameHa. I'll recheck that episode also.

Moves: No idea where this came from, to be honest. As for Justice Kick being "just another move"....hell no. Thats the problem - a lot of characters have special melee attacks, and under ESF none of those can be done yet, or if they can they are done by a combination of directions that only people who have access to that info know of. Thats another reason I suggest melee manuevers - it would add individuality by letting the characters use thier signature melee moves as well as energy attacks.

Krillin: I'll bug report the disk problem at some point. Which disc thing was it he couldn't do that your referring to? As for the transformations: Gohan was potential-unlocked by the Guru, which later let him go Mystic, but the two ARE different. It's speculation that Krillin could have been trained by the Kai instead of Gohan (if Krillin had been, at that time, powerfull enough to make a difference while Mystic) and gone Mystic instead. Some people instead thought that Mystic was a Half Saiyan thing, instead. I'm trying to find out.

Special Beam Cannon: I know you can detach from it! My question is: could PICCOLO detach from it in the SERIES? did he ever do that, or did he always just have to stand there until the attack stopped? Or could he just shoot it out at will and jump away?

Light Grenade: Why comment on this? also....please stop with the Japanese names, as this isn't a Japanese forum? seeing "makuson" doesnt tell me much. Which move is that?

Gallic Gun: Yes, saw that. see above.

Telekinetics: Yes, an instantaneos attack that blows the enemy back, usable in Advanced Melee. Good for escaping Advanced Melee, or as a ranged attack, or just as part of your A.Melee combo to knock them into the ground while you charge or whatnot. Fast but costly. I'll update my original post with this and all my Revised info as soon as it lets me >.>

Frieza Form 5/USS: USS = see above. I want it in so I post about it. As for Form 5, I meant Form 4 / Form 4 100%. the last form he went into, where he went 100% and fought Goku. Sorry for the error on my part.

Summary:
I dont think it would actually be unbalanced - see the revised edition and see if you still think it's unbalanced

Already covered: Yes, and sorry for the redundance, but I felt I should suggest ways things should be done that were thought impossible or whatnot.

Fictitious: First of all, whats AF? and as for Goku's Sword.....he used the Z Sword in the series, as did Gohan. Do I really need to go hunting for that episode also?

To Grega: Your summary said that things were unbalanced (See above) would make the game too large (so I suggested a Lite version also be released) or lag the game down. As for the last one: A person could suggest that using models instead of stick figures causes lag. Any graphical improvement will cause a little more lag Grega....Halflife is an outdated game, and maybe the Lite version should hold the older or less intensive graphics for people with less RAM/Space.

End post.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

Instant Transmission: He can use SuperSpeed while charging attacks, when transformed, but that doesn't really grab what he could do in the show. I've been mulling this over, and I think there should be a key or something you can hit to target someone, hitting it again retargets them (With a different colored box), the first target makes you teleport right in front of them when you use superspeed next, the second is right behind them instead. Just an idea, but it would let Goku do his Warp KameHameHa just like he does it in Budokai *Shrug*

goku has the ability to teleport while charging beams as ssj thats basically his instant transmission

King Kai Fist (Kaioken): so I like to use the proper translation so sue me. As for it being too powerfull: So don't make it extremely powerfull? It gets stronger as Goku gets stronger, up to 20x (Which comes sometime between SS and SS2) and since Goku takes so long to get Super Saiyan compared to anyone else, and unlike Vegeta has no Ultra/Ultimate super saiyan transformations in between, Goku's transformation strength would come from slight boosts from Kaioken early on. (Maybe start him with an extra-low Powerlevel to reflect this?)

goku is seriously on the verge of the strongest character already. the only reason they havent added kaioken is because goku already has strong attacks like the spirit bomb

Light Grenade: Why comment on this? also....please stop with the Japanese names, as this isn't a Japanese forum? seeing "makuson" doesnt tell me much. Which move is that?

ummm...kamehameha is a japanese name so is masenko what should we call them then?

 

[Solodric]

Kamehameha is what they ended up using in the series, as well. And theres nothing wrong with using Masenko. But what is Makuson? - typo?

 

[Ravendust]

It's Makosen, a Masenko charged from the waist.