1.2 Adv. Melee vs. Simple melee (and other things)

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the way i do it... is hit them then teleport, teleport, teleport, teleport, teleport.. heahe sometimes i'll use a swoop after rechargin a lil bit and hit then right when they recover
 
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then thats not a chain combo...thats just being faster than the person...i can do that...im talking about being able to combo someone while they are flying through the air

but anyway...lets get back on topic so this isnt closed...im likeing everyones input
 
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imkongkong said:
the way i do it... is hit them then teleport, teleport, teleport, teleport, teleport.. heahe sometimes i'll use a swoop after rechargin a lil bit and hit then right when they recover
Im pretty sure THAT way is not possible or i could hit them across the map, however if the roll there are map glitches witch simulate a wal and u can hit them more times.
 
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when i teleport i can hit them at the same time.... so they keep getting hit in a row
 
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imkongkong said:
when i teleport i can hit them at the same time.... so they keep getting hit in a row
Ok if you wont lissen to me ask psjoe he coded it he will tell u that you cant do it more then 2x now post on topic stuffs.

I really wanna know what some of the team memever fell about the suggestiongs.
 
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MysticUub said:
well i do do it...but in 1.1 i could chain combo someone like 4 times when i was transed...now i can only do 2..weather im transed or not (unless i get lucky and they roll down a hill the right way)

and i realize its still wip...and i commend the team and the testers for the effort they have put into what we have right now...but i just dont see the point in having something in the game that isnt even being used....it just seems like a waste

1.1 is not 1.2. Understand this concept, please. Conventions and strategies have changed. Adopt new ones. To hear you complain about not being able to get four or more chain hits is no different than Draylock complaining about how he can't use his bread and butter. Learn and move on.
 
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To make everyone actualy play this game again. Should just make the basic melee the same way it was back in 1.1. Leave the speed the same, and take off the tele restrictions. Leave the knock back from a head on. Then everyoen else can still have there advanced melee and everyone is happy. Simple as that.
 
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Why are people *****ing about teleportation? It's still ridiculously fast, you just have to, what, think now? Time yourself? You'd all really prefer to have scripted binds that allow you to teleport across the map at the touch of a button? I don't believe that's true. If you know how to time it you can still go more than fast enough. It's only a .15 second delay, just don't slam your keys.

Making simple melee like 1.1 melee is one of the better ideas I've heard, but 1.1 melee was obnoxious, so I'm not so sure.
 
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Um ok.. I know no one in {<SL>} used scripts r tele binds to do combo's. Like everyone else has been saying. Why totaly change something that only had a few bugs?
 
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because its not rediculously fast...we complain about it because its a limitation that doesnt need to be there...in 1.1 i used my mouse wheel...so what...the only times i would ever use it is when someone was sitting there waiting on me to swoop to exploit the ki system...any other time u are moving too fast to use it accuratly in melee...

and like ive said b4...what difference does it make if someone does 6 teles in a split second...if u stand still that long u deserve to be hit...wether or not its a script bind or they can acctually hit the button that fast if they miss with it...then they are screwed because their ki is gone...but it has one advantage that is almost needed with this new system..and thats quick escapes...i dont know how many times ive been killed with splash damage from a transed buus mouth blast because i couldnt tele fast enuff because of the limitation...and i dont know about u but i dont like being killed by a beam when i see it in time and should be able to get away but cant because of a limitation that the team put on teles because it was being "abused"...another analogy i use a lot is...putting a tele restriction to stop spam would be like putting a restriction on the amount of beams u could do in a minute...theres no point...besides..there was something put in the code to stop ALL scripts...not just tele scripts..because u cant script swoop or anything anymore..(i kno ppl that have tried) it wont let u input more than one command at a time anymore...so the only thing that would work would be a scroll wheel bind...which not eveyrone has a scroll mouse....

and really...if there's THAT many ppl complaining about it...dont u think there might be something wrong with it? :rolleyes:
 
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MysticUub said:
because its not rediculously fast...we complain about it because its a limitation that doesnt need to be there...in 1.1 i used my mouse wheel...so what...the only times i would ever use it is when someone was sitting there waiting on me to swoop to exploit the ki system...any other time u are moving too fast to use it accuratly in melee...

and like ive said b4...what difference does it make if someone does 6 teles in a split second...if u stand still that long u deserve to be hit...wether or not its a script bind or they can acctually hit the button that fast if they miss with it...then they are screwed because their ki is gone...but it has one advantage that is almost needed with this new system..and thats quick escapes...i dont know how many times ive been killed with splash damage from a transed buus mouth blast because i couldnt tele fast enuff because of the limitation...and i dont know about u but i dont like being killed by a beam when i see it in time and should be able to get away but cant because of a limitation that the team put on teles because it was being "abused"...another analogy i use a lot is...putting a tele restriction to stop spam would be like putting a restriction on the amount of beams u could do in a minute...theres no point...besides..there was something put in the code to stop ALL scripts...not just tele scripts..because u cant script swoop or anything anymore..(i kno ppl that have tried) it wont let u input more than one command at a time anymore...so the only thing that would work would be a scroll wheel bind...which not eveyrone has a scroll mouse....

and really...if there's THAT many ppl complaining about it...dont u think there might be something wrong with it? :rolleyes:
If they don't intend the game to be played a certain way, then they aren't going to let you play it like that, simple as that. You can't mash your teleport, wah. Change your strategy, or learn how to pace yourself. You can still teleport damn fast, and it's funny to see the people expose themselves as the button mashing whiners because they'd rather complain and ***** to have something remain the same than to adapt to something new.

Am I being harsh? Yeah. Are you teleport whiners being ridiculous? Absolutely.

The game's different now. You can't HOW, you can't LSM, you can't insta-port into someone's face from across the map with an alias or mousewheel. The times are changin', and so should you.
 
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lol its funny to see someone so "level headed" get so heated about something...look...im not trying to start a big arguement...but honestly...this game is built on its fans...if there arent fans then there isnt a game...period...and apparently im not the only person the feels this way...it was mentioned that there were 30000+ ppl that dled this game when it was released...only a fraction of that are even registered here...let alone post...and even less than that even still play this game...i mean look on steam...i only see maybe 200 ppl at most on at any given time...so out of 30000 ppl...to say only maybe 3 or 4 thousand tops still play...thats saying somethin...that apparently something that is in this version didnt sit right with most of the community...im sure there are even ppl here that still post that dont play anymore...and i know not everyone that feels the same way as me and most everyone in this thread post their thoughts because they dont wanna deal with the hassle...but if it werent for fans like us...there would be no game...esf wouldnt be in the top 5 mods on the planet...so y...when this many ppl...as u put it..."whine" about the game...do u guys get so defensive...and alienate them instead of trying to come up with some kind of solution...
 
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I've stopped playing counterstrike when I found out about this game, and I was straight up addicted to that game like heroin. The whole reason I liked 1.1 was because of the melee system. I appreciate the whole revamping of the melee system especially since you all did it for free. Honestly the animations are very very nice, and its pleasant eye candy. I just don't like the speed of it, and the fact that it is usually incredibly easy to dodge attacks in adv melee. It just feels like the game has been slowed down immensely, and it seems much easier to be better at the game. the new swoop is definetly nice, makes ki management a bigger issue which adds more to the game, explosions and animations are good. I'm gonna have to agree with uub though, I'd rather see the game stick closer to the old melee system, with just the tweaks you've added. I appreciate the time and effort put into adv melee, but I feel like its put a big damper on what this game used to be based on. Speed, quick reflexes mixed with trying to expect what your opponent will do. the only good metaphor I can think of is changing a game like football into a game of chess. that sounds a bit drastic, but hear me out. Both games have a lot of strategy, in chess you have A LOT more time to make a decision, and what your opponent is doing is clearly layed out in front of you at all times whether you see it or not. in football, you can't see anything devloping in the play till its started and you have to react to what your opponent does quickly or get stomped all over. yeah, I'm tired, not making sense anymore.
 
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MysticUub said:
honestly...i learned the ins and outs of this system in one day...ONE DAY...there is no "outwitting" your opponent when they see evey single move u are about to make...and sayin to change the combo in mid input doesnt work either...cause anyone with half a brain wouldnt get ahead of themselves...i dont know how many times ive put a heavy hit...then started the short combo then changed to the long one suddenly just to have it blocked like every other arrow...
[Humongous Rant]
No outwitting your opponent? I do it all the time... like Alea said, modifying the combo's works well, and if you end it with a random.. you're almost always likely to get the last hit in. Get tricky with your arrows.. you said -

"i dont know how many times ive put a heavy hit...then started the short combo then changed to the long one suddenly just to have it blocked like every other arrow"

Well guess what, you're not doing a good job of changing the combo's you're just switching from one to the other, which is predictable. Try something other than that. Just becuase you're fighting opponents that do the same thing over and over again doesn't mean that the game is boring, you're just fighting unskilled players.

It's true there are nly two combo's for now, but imagine when they get done, and there are tons more. The fighting will become a lot more diverse than it is now. Also, you're focusing on the point when you engage in adv. melee.. ever fight somoene who doesn't make it so easy to catch him? Most people just head-on becuase HOWing isn't a threat anymore, and there's 50% chance you'll win the engagement with a player equal to your skill in a melee struggle. If you fight someone that uses the full potential of the multi-directional swoop, you'll find that it's not so easy anymore.



and i dont see how u think ppl in this thread were howers...it is tru that most of the howers *cough*dray*cough* dont like 1.2 because it takes away their bread and butter...but its been mentioned several times in the last few posts that if they were to impliment the knockback feature from this version to ELIMINATE howing it would be the perfect system
Heh, that's becuase more than half the people that complain, also state how they can't win head-ons EVER. Or they actually complain on the server that I'm playing in, and I see them doing head-ons over and over again, while I just teleport above them at the last second and they stare at my fading after-image like they can't comprehend what the hell just happened.

So far, the best player I've come across is Loki, he whooped my ass and showed me what it was to truely fight. I couldn't sit around for a moment, unless I wanted to get my ass handed to me. Even with the slow-down, I find the game just as fast-paced as 1.1 or 1.0 if not more. Of course, that's only if I'm fighting someone like Loki. There are a number of good players out there, you just have to find them.


One last thing, a lot of people seem to automatically assume that anyone that loves the 1.2 melee system, sucked horribly at 1.1. I was accused of it not long ago. Now, I was no where near the best player in ESF 1.1, but I was better than average. There were four categories in ESF 1.1:

Newbie - You see these people flying around in turbo instead of swooping, incessantly asking how to melee in a rude fashion. Usually getting replies like "Go read the manual, damnit." If they do know how to swoop or melee, they only do head-ons and don't know why they always lose them. Usually becomes a beamspammer if not interested enough to learn the melee system. Horrible reflexes, and often just floating in mid-air, blocking in the wrong direction, waiting to be smacked in the back. Newbies, usually can't beat anyone unless they beam someone while they aren't looking.

Average - Knows how to swoop, and melee. Only combo able to perform is the combo where you smack them into the ground rolling and then hit them in the air, and they think they're the **** becuase of it. Decent reflexs, usually become decent at blocking. Doesn't know how to deal with Beamspammers, BUT, knows howto exploit the Melee system (HOW). Average players can beat Newbies at melee, but Newbies can check them with the Beamspamming Method.

Above Average - Knows 2-3 combo's. Can perform side-hits, under-hits, and above-hits. Pretty good on reflexes. Knows how to deal with Beamspammers and HOWers. Above Average can wipe out a room of newbies without a problem, and usually fair very well against a room of Average's. BUT, they get PWNED by t3h sup3r 1337's.

t3h sup3r 1337's - PWNS everything, unless confronted by another t3h sup3r 1337, then get ready to watch a good battle. Above Average players can land a few hits, but still really don't have a chance.

I was in the Above average Category, and I love 1.2 melee.
[/Humongous Rant]
 
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heh, im just average i guess, but im workin on it (i dont wanna learn the combo's though, vry easy to block = waist of my time)

I agree with everything Sailor Alea, Halorin, Sonic Boyster and Phatslugga have said, to me, their arguements are much more relevant to the issue and address the things that every1 is moaning about.
 
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Halorin said:
If they don't intend the game to be played a certain way, then they aren't going to let you play it like that, simple as that. You can't mash your teleport, wah. Change your strategy, or learn how to pace yourself. You can still teleport damn fast, and it's funny to see the people expose themselves as the button mashing whiners because they'd rather complain and ***** to have something remain the same than to adapt to something new.

Am I being harsh? Yeah. Are you teleport whiners being ridiculous? Absolutely.

The game's different now. You can't HOW, you can't LSM, you can't insta-port into someone's face from across the map with an alias or mousewheel. The times are changin', and so should you.
Halorin you have your nerve to talk about people whining. Who started the HOW term? You did. Who *****ed about ki pouncing with teleports YOU did. Its strange how everything that used to KICK YOUR ASS was takin out of the game.


davidskiwan said:
heh, im just average i guess, but im workin on it (i dont wanna learn the combo's though, vry easy to block = waist of my time)

I agree with everything Sailor Alea, Halorin, Sonic Boyster and Phatslugga have said, to me, their arguements are much more relevant to the issue and address the things that every1 is moaning about.

No your just sucking up. Halorin is clearly insulting people, while makeing statements.
 
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Perhaps different game modes can be made for different types of melee.
 
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SSJ Shin Carl said:
No your just sucking up. Halorin is clearly insulting people, while makeing statements.
pfft lol, look i posted more or less the same arguement before them, and in other previous threads, im not sayin Halorin is right to insult any1, but i agree with his arguement, which is the part of their posts that actually matter. And its slightly hypocritical to say that dont u think? u made a statement and insulted me and Halorin...

to get on topic, HOWing is an unfair advantage hence why it was removed, the same with the ki pouncing with teleports, sorry but its bloody common sense.
 
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davidskiwan said:
to get on topic, HOWing is an unfair advantage hence why it was removed, the same with the ki pouncing with teleports, sorry but its bloody common sense.
See thats what i hate, people who ***** about hhowing and how unfair it is. it is so ****ing easy to avoid. dray "how king" had troubling howing me. WHy? Because i know what HOW mean and how to avoid it, i think before i fall for the same thing over and over again.
 
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you're putting words in my mouth, where did i "*****" about howing? i said it was an unfair advantage, which it was, simple statement not regarding opinion. Yes it is easy to avoid but it used to happen and i didnt like it when it did, is that unreasonable? are u gonna hate me now cuz ive stated my opinion?
 

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