" You know it's a Myth"

[Majin_You]

The worst sin of all is that Christianity is the reason I can't buy beer after six pm on a Saturday. Also, Methodists wake me up every ******* Sunday. It's the day for REST, let me sleep!

That's a shame. I went and got a 12 of Keith's for a get-together with my buddy a couple of weekends ago, and that was on a Saturday... after 6 PM.

Come to Canada, Avenger!

 

[Avenger]

Only if you promise to lather my body with maple syrup and wrestle with me, Maj.

 

[Prozac]

Personally I'm of the opinion thatReligion is a plague that has caused great damage to Humanity's intellectual development.

yes, I struggle to find any positiveness religion has brought to this world, especially when you consider how much negativeness it has produced.

 

[DiebytheSword]

You point out a lot of reasons you should have picked a different religion. Why does the Abrahamic god have to be the right one? You could invent one more plausible than that. Why try to explain away the flaws of an ancient, evil God, when you could just accept that God is a concept of something greater than you, and you don't have to attach hundreds of years of political strife and power-struggles to it?

Because I have faith that God exists. And I do have my own personal proof, as I bore witness to something many years ago that will forever haunt me. I have tried, time and time again to reconcile it, but it can only be what I experienced it to be. That said, conversion to atheism will never happen, nor will the invention of some God more palatable to me, because in my opinion and my experience, God is not an invention.

 

[Avenger]

I guess all the other religions are just wrong or "misunderstood" the message then. What a coincidence that it's your faith that's the correct one.

 

[DiebytheSword]

I guess all the other religions are just wrong or "misunderstood" the message then. What a coincidence that it's your faith that's the correct one.

Isn't yours? Pot meet kettle.

 

[Rocky]

yes, I struggle to find any positiveness religion has brought to this world, especially when you consider how much negativeness it has produced.

Umm loads and loads of religion inspired artwork. That's one.

Not to mention that the underlying message that most religions try and teach to their followers, is to be a good, kind, honest and happy human being. I'm not saying you have to be religious to do any of the above, but you can't deny that's what the teaching is. You're judging religion based on extremists Christian/Muslim/Jew examples and saying it's not positive, and that's load of trash.

 

[Prozac]

Umm loads and loads of religion inspired artwork. That's one.

Not to mention that the underlying message that most religions try and teach to their followers, is to be a good, kind, honest and happy human being. I'm not saying you have to be religious to do any of the above, but you can't deny that's what the teaching is. You're judging religion based on extremists Christian/Muslim/Jew examples and saying it's not positive, and that's load of trash.

Deja vú, anyway, imagine all the art we'd have if religion didn't oppress the artists.

Those so called teachings just sound like something a proper parent should teach their kids. And that mindset is only from the last few decades. Remember when you had to pay the church to be cleared of sin, that was very useful, wasn't it?

 

[DiebytheSword]

Deja vú, anyway, imagine all the art we'd have if religion didn't oppress the artists.

Those so called teachings just sound like something a proper parent should teach their kids. And that mindset is only from the last few decades. Remember when you had to pay the church to be cleared of sin, that was very useful, wasn't it?

That isn't the religion, its abuse of man by man through religion.

 

[sub]

Religion provides comfort in a world torn apart by religion

 

[Rocky]

That isn't the religion, its abuse of man by man through religion.

Exactly, what I said before about judging religions based on a corrupted few is not the way you should be going about this. Just as a good many religious have open minds about non-religious, so should non-religious be open minded about religious.

You also act as if without religion, the world would be free of corruption, let me tell you it's in mankind's nature to gain power and corruption, if those who abused religion to gain power didn't have religion, who's to say they wouldn't have found another way to gain control over the minds of others. Unfortunately, we'll never know how a world would exist without religion, but in my opinion it wouldn't be too different.

 

[Synth]

Religion provides comfort in a world torn apart by religion

 

[DiebytheSword]

yes, I struggle to find any positiveness religion has brought to this world, especially when you consider how much negativeness it has produced.

To be fair, I struggle to find any positives Europeans have brought to this world, especially when you concider both world wars, worldwide conquest and imperialism, destuction of pre-columbian civilizations (who had better calendars, btw), oh yeah and further abuse and perversion of religion to the ends of controlling men through a period called the dark ages. Let us also not forget that europeans brought us all the bad forms of socialism minus maoism. I seem to remember that the only successful "world conqueror" that didn't come from Europe was Genghis Khan. Stop me at any time.

You can ***** that religion was a cause, but ultimately you are blaming a bullet for being shot from a gun by a man.

 

[Rocky]

To be fair, I struggle to find any positives Europeans have brought to this world, especially when you concider both world wars, worldwide conquest and imperialism, destuction of pre-columbian civilizations (who had better calendars, btw), oh yeah and further abuse and perversion of religion to the ends of controlling men through a period called the dark ages. Let us also not forget that europeans brought us all the bad forms of socialism minus maoism. I seem to remember that the only successful "world conqueror" that didn't come from Europe was Genghis Khan. Stop me at any time.

You can ***** that religion was a cause, but ultimately you are blaming a bullet for being shot from a gun by a man.

You did that way better than I did...

 

[DiebytheSword]

You did that way better than I did...

It was done to prove a point, people who use anything as a scapegoat for mankind's sins forget that Man is inherently a terrible, terrible monster.

 

[Prozac]

To be fair, I struggle to find any positives Europeans have brought to this world, especially when you concider both world wars, worldwide conquest and imperialism, destuction of pre-columbian civilizations (who had better calendars, btw), oh yeah and further abuse and perversion of religion to the ends of controlling men through a period called the dark ages. Let us also not forget that europeans brought us all the bad forms of socialism minus maoism. I seem to remember that the only successful "world conqueror" that didn't come from Europe was Genghis Khan. Stop me at any time.

You can ***** that religion was a cause, but ultimately you are blaming a bullet for being shot from a gun by a man.

I see what you did there. And it's a fair point, I agree. Maybe I should have worded it a tad bit differently. In it's purest form, or better yet, intention religion probably isn't bad, when you ignore the stoning of your neighbors and stuff. But you add people to the mix. Religion offers power, power corrupts. People corrupt. Anyway I just want to bounce a little something back to you though. It's about the abuse and perversion of religion. I'd like to talk about when that started. Before.. or after the bible was written. Wouldn't you think the bible is a product of said abuse and perversion? How it was written centuries after certain situations happened. How "facts" were changed in order to improve the perception of people.

Yes, without religion humans can be horrible too. But I don't see how that is a defense for religion. In my eyes, it seems like all it's been is a group of people, who want power and money to increase their influence in the world. Just like any other cooperation out there, but with tax breaks.
And this isn't something that slipped in later, no this was the intention from the start. Control human beings, through fear(of death) and salvation. Which gives me just another reason to doubt it all.

PS. Sorry for the harsh words. I am honestly a bit divided here, because it's always you versus the rest, and words can hit hard. Just remember that it may at times seem a bit more harsh then originally intended.. in my case anyway.

 

[J-Dude]

It was done to prove a point, people who use anything as a scapegoat for mankind's sins forget that Man is inherently a terrible, terrible monster.

I'm sorry, but bull****. I'll respectfully disagree with a lot of what you're saying, but that's way too high on the bull**** scale.

Human beings are, at their core, animals driven by several ancient instincts. The only difference between us and other creatures is the extraordinary mental capabilities we possess. We're social animals brought into the extreme of being constantly surrounded by thousands of our own species. We are selfish, because the nature of all creatures in evolution calls for self-preservation as an end-all priority, and self-betterment by extension. We defy that often because of our social tendencies, or because we gain from the gain of others, even if only in boosting our own opinions of ourselves.

A world of six-billion animals with extremely developed minds and all capable of great things. Our world is nothing but the reflection of thousands of variables all coalescing in chaos.

Good and evil. Words, and nothing more. They change as we define them. Humans are not monsters because a percentage of a massive population inevitably made it's way to one extreme or another. No human has "evil" as a motivator. What someone would call evil is at best a by-product of other factors in that person's life. Every action has a reaction.

To call humans "inherently terrible terrible monsters" is thinking about as backwards as the latter-half of Superman: The Ride. Humans are humans. We are born neutral, but with instinctual disadvantages, but we are literally capable of anything. And for the most part, especially recently, we've come to be better to each other and better to our world than the Mankind of a hundred years ago could have imagined.

This is another dagger to the heart of my old beliefs; we're not spiraling out of control into a den of "sin" like the Bible's apocalyptic theories suggest. Man to man, comparing the ratio today of the mere millions populating the world a few hundred years ago to the six billion of today, there are more "good" people to "bad" people than at any time in history. Morally, we're becoming stronger, we're braving that last great incline that will lead us to the paradise we built for ourselves.

 

[Synth]

If I am to shove my Taoist beliefs into this thread, I will say this. The universe is naturally designed and naturally omnipotent. We are merely role players stuck within its rules. Religion is a trial and error tool that has developed our view of humanity. It's a shame that the result has been based off a reaction to ignorance, prejudice, and malediction. One day we'll toss religion aside, because it ran it's course. We won't need indifference to recognize difference.

 

[Prozac]

If I am to shove my Taoist beliefs into this thread, I will say this. The universe is naturally designed and naturally omnipotent. We are merely role players stuck within its rules. Religion is a trial and error tool that has developed our view of humanity. It's a shame that the result has been based off a reaction to ignorance, prejudice, and malediction. One day we'll toss religion aside, because it ran it's course. We won't need indifference to recognize difference.

You cannot kill a breeze, a wind, a fragrance, you cannot kill a dream or an ambition.
God, manufactured by mortals in their own quintessential image, exsists only to make daily life bearable
despite the path that every one of us threads towards extinction.
As long as men are obliged to die, some of them, unable to endure prospect, will concoct fond illusions.
We cannot assassinate or kill an illusion. In fact, illusion is more likely to kill us
for god puts to death everything that stands up to him, beginning with reason, intelligence and the critical mind.
all rest follows in a chain reaction
- Michael Onfray

 

[DiebytheSword]

I see what you did there. And it's a fair point, I agree. Maybe I should have worded it a tad bit differently. In it's purest form, or better yet, intention religion probably isn't bad, when you ignore the stoning of your neighbors and stuff. But you add people to the mix. Religion offers power, power corrupts. People corrupt. Anyway I just want to bounce a little something back to you though. It's about the abuse and perversion of religion. I'd like to talk about when that started. Before.. or after the bible was written. Wouldn't you think the bible is a product of said abuse and perversion? How it was written centuries after certain situations happened. How "facts" were changed in order to improve the perception of people.

Yes, without religion humans can be horrible too. But I don't see how that is a defense for religion. In my eyes, it seems like all it's been is a group of people, who want power and money to increase their influence in the world. Just like any other cooperation out there, but with tax breaks.
And this isn't something that slipped in later, no this was the intention from the start. Control human beings, through fear(of death) and salvation. Which gives me just another reason to doubt it all.

PS. Sorry for the harsh words. I am honestly a bit divided here, because it's always you versus the rest, and words can hit hard. Just remember that it may at times seem a bit more harsh then originally intended.. in my case anyway.

I have no problems with what you said other than its obvious straw man. You blame the evil of the world on religion, where I blame it on our desire for power and security (often at the cost of others).

I'm sorry, but bull****. I'll respectfully disagree with a lot of what you're saying, but that's way too high on the bull**** scale.

Yes because mothers drowning their babies is just chaos variables. So are pedophiles, or murderers of children. Hitler, he was just misunderstood, but he had capacity for greatness. Anyone who doesn't believe that there is evil in this world is more delusional that someone who believes in Avenger's Unicorn Walrus glowing pinapple hybrids. Humans are capable of horrible things. Perhaps it was hyperbole to call all of humanity monsters, but you seem to have a delusion of your own thinking that any kind of utopia will ever happen with mans capacity for hurting one another.