" You know it's a Myth"

[Deathshot]

[video=youtube;URA7z699QhA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URA7z699QhA[/video]


Wow. I thought Atheists were against pushing belief on others.

 

[DiebytheSword]

Hardly. They have a belief in humanity as its own god. There are gnostic and agnostic athiests. I find the agnostics, those who believe that you cannot know whether or not there is a god, to be less likely to be pushy and more likely to have a spirited and not mean debate. I've found that gnostics, those who KNOW god does not exist, to be insulted in someone elses faith and more likely to resort to ridicule right off the bat, just like that billboard. Granted, these are strong generalizations, but it is what I have observed in the course of meeting people of both types.

 

[-Origin]

Just like how you cannot lump all Christians together, you cannot lump all Atheists together. It's the same principle. Not all Muslims are terrorists, not all Christians are pedophiles, and not all Atheists are about converting believers.

On the other hand, the report they're giving is that they make it sound wrong and insulting. "You don't need to knock Christian faith"? Come on. Okay, depicting the three wise men might not have been the subtlest thing I've ever seen, but for example Cuc, do you feel insulted by the sight of this billboard? I'm going to guess you're not. Just like how a sizeable amount of all atheists don't hate religion. I consider myself an agnostic ("I don't know" - easy way out, I've heard >_>) but if you want to believe in God or Allah or Yahweh, be my guest. It doesn't bother me in the slightest.

 

[Prozac]

I could write such nice things about this, but I'll refrain, in spirit of the holidays. \o/

 

[-Origin]

A Christian holiday! /gasp

Speaking of which, why do I get days off from work on Christmas but not on the Muslim holiday Greater Eid? Seems we should get days off for every religions' holidays. Who's with me?

 

[DiebytheSword]

Cuc, do you feel insulted by the sight of this billboard? I'm going to guess you're not.

Your guess would be well informed and wholly accurate.

This is a free country, and most civilized western countries have similar allowance of free thought. Just don't push it on me, like removing introspective times for prayer at schools. Because as an atheist, you can completely comtemplate the instrumentality of man in that same space of time without taking prayer times from the Abrahamic religeons and mediation time from the eastern philosophies. Only the athiest who actively work towards sterilizing religion everywhere get my back up, because they are being the pretentious pricks they claim we are, lol.

I have a friend who is pagan who pisses me off because she has snorts of dirision through prayer at my dinner table, which, to my knowledge, I have never knocked her religion when she practices in front of me. That being said, I never object to other freinds practicing their religions, non-religions, or lack of them, in front of me.

 

[-Origin]

Your guess would be well informed and wholly accurate.

This is a free country, and most civilized western countries have similar allowance of free thought. Just don't push it on me, like removing introspective times for prayer at schools. Because as an atheist, you can completely comtemplate the instrumentality of man in that same space of time without taking prayer times from the Abrahamic religeons and mediation time from the eastern philosophies. Only the athiest who actively work towards sterilizing religion everywhere get my back up, because they are being the pretentious pricks they claim we are, lol.

I have a friend who is pagan who pisses me off because she has snorts of dirision through prayer at my dinner table, which, to my knowledge, I have never knocked her religion when she practices in front of me. That being said, I never object to other freinds practicing their religions, non-religions, or lack of them, in front of me.

Switch around your religion with what I believe and we have the exact same stance. I honestly do not care a single bit what anyone believes, as long as they don't force it on me.

 

[Avenger]

Hardly. They have a belief in humanity as its own god. There are gnostic and agnostic athiests. I find the agnostics, those who believe that you cannot know whether or not there is a god, to be less likely to be pushy and more likely to have a spirited and not mean debate. I've found that gnostics, those who KNOW god does not exist, to be insulted in someone elses faith and more likely to resort to ridicule right off the bat, just like that billboard. Granted, these are strong generalizations, but it is what I have observed in the course of meeting people of both types.

Atheism is characterized by the lack of belief in supernatural entities. It is not a religion, and there is no reason to say that atheists have a belief in humanity as its own god. Those who do are called humanistic atheists, and are a very distinct group of atheists, as they tend to organize and do things as a non-religious community. My version of the Christian tradition of confirmation was done with humanistic atheists, so I know a bit about the subject.

Personally, I see no reason to push atheism on people. If you want to make-believe you have an omnipotent friend who cares for you, that's fine, as long as you don't hurt anyone doing it. I also don't think you have a right to push your religion on people. Frankly, advertisement related to religious views at all tend to be either brainwashing or ineffective advertising. It's my opinion that neither of those things are beneficial to society. (Note that advertisement and brainwashing related to religious views also includes atheism, as it is in fact a religious view)

Just don't push it on me, like removing introspective times for prayer at schools. Because as an atheist, you can completely comtemplate the instrumentality of man in that same space of time without taking prayer times from the Abrahamic religeons and mediation time from the eastern philosophies. Only the athiest who actively work towards sterilizing religion everywhere get my back up, because they are being the pretentious pricks they claim we are, lol.

Arguing that anyone who disagrees with you is being a pretentious prick is pretty weak and transparent rhetoric, Cuc, and you know it. There is no reason that religion should have a place like that in an educational institution. Religion is for your own, personal time, and not time that should be spent learning. Most schools give you small breaks. Whether you use those to meditate, talk to your friends, or pray, is up to you.

That being said, I never object to other freinds practicing their religions, non-religions, or lack of them, in front of me.

How do you practice a non-religion?

 

[Grega]

So on one hand we have a christian holiday and on the other hand we have the bastardization of that holiday with capitalistic values. So in the end why are people even complaining about something THIS trivial?

Im all for Christmas is time for family reunions and getting closer with the family. But thats as far as the Christian holiday goes. The whole thing with santa is a pure capitalistic scam, yet people dont mind that. So whats 1 sign going to do?

I dont know by which side im more anoyed. The one who put the thing up or the one thats complaining about it.

 

[Deathshot]

Personally I believe Christmas is something for people to come together for. Like a Family Reunion for everyone.

 

[Rocky]

The irony is they've hijacked a religious holiday to spread a non-religious message. I'm personally not a Christian so couldn't care less that Aethiests are doing stuff like this, I also echo the reasoning's of Cuc and Origin, I'm fine with whatever you practice or don't practice, just don't try and force it on me, it's the same way I feel about homosexuals, I have no problem that you're gay, just don't try and hit on me.

 

[DiebytheSword]

Atheism is characterized by the lack of belief in supernatural entities. It is not a religion, and there is no reason to say that atheists have a belief in humanity as its own god. Those who do are called humanistic atheists, and are a very distinct group of atheists, as they tend to organize and do things as a non-religious community. My version of the Christian tradition of confirmation was done with humanistic atheists, so I know a bit about the subject.

Atheism is rooted in a belief that there is no god. A belief is a belief, what you characterize it as is inconsequential. Sure, they can argue that there is no God and they know this for a fact, but then they are making a claim that they cannot back up. Prove that god does not exist. Keep in mind, that I am not claiming he does in my original assertion. You can say its a lack of belief, but then that implies that you have facts to back you up that any god is imaginary. This has gone the rounds with people smarter and wiser than both of us put together, it is unlikely we will reach concensus on this issue.

Personally, I see no reason to push atheism on people. If you want to make-believe you have an omnipotent friend who cares for you, that's fine, as long as you don't hurt anyone doing it. I also don't think you have a right to push your religion on people. Frankly, advertisement related to religious views at all tend to be either brainwashing or ineffective advertising. It's my opinion that neither of those things are beneficial to society. (Note that advertisement and brainwashing related to religious views also includes atheism, as it is in fact a religious view)

Remember what I said about gnostics opening up with ridicule? You say you don't want to spread atheism, but you start off with trying to make people who believe in god rediculous. You actively tried to shame me into a path of reason that you believe is right and true.

Arguing that anyone who disagrees with you is being a pretentious prick is pretty weak and transparent rhetoric, Cuc, and you know it.

Except I didn't say that. I said people who come out of the gate with ridicule are pretentious pricks for the reason I outlined above. You believe there is no god, I believe that there is, therefore I have imaginary freinds and I am generally unreasonable but okay so long as I don't martyr myself while killing others. When they assert that christianity is bad because of evangelism, or that christians are annoying because of it, they are effectively evangelizing atheism. Hypocracy is the hallmark of pretentious prickdom.

In fact, I've had quite a few spirited debates with Agnostics that I found quite stirring intellectually. Gnostics tend to go into that argument with a chip on their shoulder and their mind made up that I am a tribal remnant that bangs rocks against eachother to make fire.

There is no reason that religion should have a place like that in an educational institution. Religion is for your own, personal time, and not time that should be spent learning. Most schools give you small breaks. Whether you use those to meditate, talk to your friends, or pray, is up to you.

I stated it as a moment of silence, or personal time, as you pointed out. We actually agree here, so long as its not labeled christian prayer hour. In addition, I don't think of school as anyone's time but the students, you would be hard pressed to prove otherwise. I don't neccesarily think that school is a good place to pray, your few moments in home room should do the trick, but Muslims need to pray multiple times during that school day. To take that away from them because its a fairy tale to you is pretty wrong, its enforcing your will on them.

How do you practice a non-religion?

See above, accepting something as known fact without any kind of evidence is quite a belief. Some people pray harder at the mountain of non-belief than others, like the asses that bought that sign space. They are actively running atheism's dark horse against christianity as an alternative.

 

[Synth]

When I see Athiests and Monotheists argue... it's like watching two planets trying to eclipse each other through circular arguments and reasoning.

Also, I have a theory that one day we'll all simply follow basic principles of Taoism. The faith will be motivated by a goal to blend diverse communities overlapping each other (overpopulation), achievements in astronomy/technology, and an overall distaste for sarcastic comments like this...

I'm thinking the Christians started this billboard contest.

 

[DiebytheSword]

When I see Athiests and Monotheists argue... it's like watching two planets trying to eclipse each other through circular arguments and reasoning.

Also, I have a theory that one day we'll all simply follow basic principles of Taoism. The faith will be motivated by a goal to blend diverse communities overlapping each other (overpopulation), achievements in astronomy/technology, and an overall distaste for sarcastic comments like this...

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5854/tumblrlaj65pfkfu1qc417m.jpg

I'm thinking the Christians started this billboard contest.

You know my views perhaps better than most of the board here, I would hate to think that you walked away from me thinking that I approve of that type of evangelism. Both sides are moronic, you cannot engage in such a deep and personal matter with a billboard.

 

[sub]

What an ineffective advertisement.

"You KNOW it's a myth"

Really? That's the best they can come up with? I feel like the point of an advertisement campaign such as this should not be to convince people that god is a myth (no billboard will ever accomplish this), but rather, to promote awareness of atheists, to let believers know that atheists exist and should be treated no differently than anyone else. Just as important is that it should let non-believers know that they are not alone. Judging from what I've read, the bible belt can be extremely unforgiving to non-believers.

Religion will never be eliminated from the world. I'm a non-believer and I wouldn't even want it to be eliminated. The problem with religion is extremism and it's a problem that's not exclusive to religion. This particular billboard is more divisive than it needs to be and it is without substance. It is not helping.

edit: I just realized that this billboard is in New York. I live in New York and religion has never been even close to an issue. No one I have met has cared what someones faith is. This billboard would be put to better use in the South.

 

[Tenzo]

Guys, guys.... wait till the Force is discovered.

 

[Synth]

Guys, guys.... wait till the Force is discovered.

http://www.jedichurch.org/

Is the Jedi religion fiction? Many religions claim to be the one and only true religion, thus necessitating that all other religions are fictitious. In addition, although many religions claim to speak the word of God, but the truth is they are only the written word of prophets or followers of the religion. There is no way to prove or deny that what was written was the word of God. Several other religions openly admit that their text is not the word of God, and that it is only a prescribed behavior or a philosophy of life (e.g. Buddhism, Scientology). Most non fiction is a discussion of science and life, of things that can be observed, quantified and readily challenged for its truth and authenticity. But not religion.

Any religion put to scrutiny is merely words on paper, with no ability to confirm its authenticity. The Jedi church makes no denial that its name and terminology originates from a fictitious past, but the concepts and ideals that are identified by Jedi followers are known for their innate truth. The sun existed before it was given a name, and it could be revered as a God, however, when the sun finally had a human name, it could be written about and communicated with others. The Jedi religion is just like the Sun, it existed before a popular movie gave it a name, and now that it has a name, people all over the world can share their experiences of the Jedi religion, here in the Jedi Church.

So in summary, no religion is truth. It is all just a matter of faith.

 

[Avenger]

Atheism is rooted in a belief that there is no god. A belief is a belief, what you characterize it as is inconsequential. Sure, they can argue that there is no God and they know this for a fact, but then they are making a claim that they cannot back up. Prove that god does not exist. Keep in mind, that I am not claiming he does in my original assertion. You can say its a lack of belief, but then that implies that you have facts to back you up that any god is imaginary. This has gone the rounds with people smarter and wiser than both of us put together, it is unlikely we will reach concensus on this issue.

You are confusing religious belief with normal belief. Do you actively believe that there are no red pineapples which glow with the fury of a thousand suns? No, it is a passive thing to which you pay no mind. In the same way, an atheist might argue there is no God due to the extremely low probability of a complex, specific God existing and interacting with mankind on the basis of that religion's scripture and general logic. Of course, there is no way to disprove deism, but with deism, you don't actually need to believe in God to live a good life/afterlife.

Remember what I said about gnostics opening up with ridicule? You say you don't want to spread atheism, but you start off with trying to make people who believe in god rediculous. You actively tried to shame me into a path of reason that you believe is right and true.

Belief in God could easily be considered a delusion, psychologically speaking. I have lots of small delusions. There's no need to be offended by my point of view. You think I'm going to Hell (or at the very least, not to Heaven), I think your God is in your head. These are natural consequences of our religious viewpoints. If you think I am trying to shame you into abandoning your faith, you are mistaken. That's not how you convert someone. Have you ever thought someone's argument to be more reasonable if they smack you in the face with it? No. Converting anyone to any religion requires a level of subtlety, and manipulation/introduction of Ninian Smart's seven dimensions of religion.

Except I didn't say that. I said people who come out of the gate with ridicule are pretentious pricks for the reason I outlined above.

Fair enough. I apologise.

You believe there is no god, I believe that there is, therefore I have imaginary freinds and I am generally unreasonable but okay so long as I don't martyr myself while killing others.

I don't believe there is no god any more than you actively believe that unicorn-walrus hybrids exist. It's a lack of faith, and you need to understand that to understand atheism. I never said you were generally unreasonable. I said you had an omnipotent, imaginary friend. I also never involved any form of martyring or killing others. I said as long as you don't hurt anyone. I think that applies to all views; religious, political, social and otherwise.

When they assert that christianity is bad because of evangelism, or that christians are annoying because of it, they are effectively evangelizing atheism. Hypocracy is the hallmark of pretentious prickdom.

So whoever criticizes religious people for evangelism is automatically a hypocrite. How convenient.

I don't neccesarily think that school is a good place to pray, your few moments in home room should do the trick, but Muslims need to pray multiple times during that school day. To take that away from them because its a fairy tale to you is pretty wrong, its enforcing your will on them.

Moderate Muslims make exceptions for school and work so that they can live their lives in accordance with modern society. Those prayertimes are based on a very ancient tradition with very flexible work hours. Amusingly enough, if a Muslim moves far enough north or south, they can skip a whole bunch of prayers for large portions of the year by merit of the Sun alone.

See above, accepting something as known fact without any kind of evidence is quite a belief. Some people pray harder at the mountain of non-belief than others, like the asses that bought that sign space. They are actively running atheism's dark horse against christianity as an alternative.

The burden of proof lies with the accuser, and any valid theory should be falsifiable. Religions aren't falsifiable, and they've never presented any kind of evidence, so saying that "God doesn't exist" isn't really such a flaw in logic. No more than saying "there are no humans who are sixty feet tall" is quite a belief. Personally, I would say "God probably doesn't exist, but if he does, he can go **** himself." just to be sure I didn't leave anything out.


@Synth:

Over here, Christian advertisement started when a man called Olaf the Holy brought his army back from Britain and decided to "advertise" at swordpoint. At least we kept the fun traditions of olde, like Christmas.

 

[Dokutayuu]

I'm really not getting his "come out of the closet" thing. Whilst I think they're fully entitled to believe what they want, I don't like how they're treating everything else as nonsense. The way they've done it seems like it was to get a response, which I'd imagine they'd get from the other end.

However, I'm sure there are people who'd do the same to promote religion and shoot down Atheism.

 

[MrPlow]

I am an atheist, an what you would call a "gnostic" atheist.But i seriously don't see why there are atheist groups and what not who pull stunts like this and try to convert others. If i chose not to believe in God or any other higher being for that matter i chose that on my own and i will not try to "convert" others to share my point of view. I can and do socialize with christians (dedicated and non-dedicated) and whenever a subject concerning religion comes up i just say that i'm not a believer and don't want to take part in the discussion unless they keep bugging me, then i try to explain why i am what i am in a non-aggressive manner. I'm sick of these atheist groups which do more harm than good.