X3: Terran Conflict

[Deathshot]

Super Meat Boy was pick up and play, but it was challenging as ****.

Well I mean there are games like that, like Super Mario Bros. But I mean a game that has a serious story to it.

 

[sub]

Well I mean there are games like that, like Super Mario Bros. But I mean a game that has a serious story to it.

So now for a game to be worth playing, in addition to it needing to be pick up and play and challenging, it also needs a deep story? You're just arbitrarily adding to the original statement. A game having a deep story has no baring on whether or not the game can be pick up and play and challenging. I can sit here and list a dozen requirements a game needs in order for it to be good, but then someone else can list a ton of games that lack those features and are still great games.

 

[Sicron]

Well I mean there are games like that, like Super Mario Bros. But I mean a game that has a serious story to it.

You are still not getting the point. It's not that games cannot be a challenge, it's the point where it gets challenging. Games need to build up the challenge, not smack you in the head with challenges as soon as you install the game (though, some games every start with challenges before even installing it). Games like Ocarina of Time would get a lot more challenging the closer you got to the end, but it didn't start with a near impossible task for you to complete.

 

[Zeonix]

You are still not getting the point. It's not that games cannot be a challenge, it's the point where it gets challenging. Games need to build up the challenge, not smack you in the head with challenges as soon as you install the game (though, some games every start with challenges before even installing it). Games like Ocarina of Time would get a lot more challenging the closer you got to the end, but it didn't start with a near impossible task for you to complete.

RTFM

Or the guide they created on their forum specifically to aid people who can't seem to grasp what to do and how to go about doing it. The game itself isn't challenging, unless economics is completely beyond you. The only complaint I've read is, "I don't know how to do anything."

 

[sub]

I'd just like to point out that we're posting on the ESF forums. What a ******* brutal and hard game. Yet it is awesome.

 

[Denz]

im so getting this not

 

[Sicron]

RTFM

Or the guide they created on their forum specifically to aid people who can't seem to grasp what to do and how to go about doing it. The game itself isn't challenging, unless economics is completely beyond you. The only complaint I've read is, "I don't know how to do anything."

Reading a manual doesn't change the fact that I shouldn't have to read a manual to play a game. I can use several 'challenging' technical devices without having the need to read a manual, because they were built with usability in mind. As I said, ship control in the X-series is a lot more difficult than ship control in Freelancer, yet the reasons for this are unknown for me, because I believe that Freelancer can be an equally enjoyable game (forgetting the economical aspect for a bit, since I understand that that might need a bit more training to be enjoyable for a person)

Fact is, X is not exactly known for it's outstanding usability among various usergroups. Yes, it may be true that they are trying to reach a sort of niche group, space sims are pretty much dying out. But still, I believe if they could put a bit more effort into making controls work easier in the game, a lot more people would be having an enjoyable time.

 

[Zeonix]

I'd just like to point out that we're posting on the ESF forums. What a ******* brutal and hard game. Yet it is awesome.

First off, this^. How many times were people told to read the manual in order to find out what to do? How many hours does the average person have to put in if he wants to survive longer than a minute? ESF is the perfect example of having to put in the work and time in order to get something out of it.

@ Sicron: Comparing freelancer to X3 is like comparing Hawx to Flight Simulator X. Why is one easier than the other? Why are there so many gauges and switches in FSX when all I have to do is press forward in Hawx and win?

As for controlling the ship, that is definitely the easiest part of the game, and the least sim-like aspect. I can't even fathom where difficulties with controlling the ship would arise, unless you're attempting to play from a 3rd person view.

 

[Mkilbride]

I didn't have to read any guides to survive in ESF. I just played, and learned, and had fun. That's not the case in a game like X.

If you have to read a 30 page manual to understand how to have fun - well, that's bad game design.

 

[Sicron]

First off, this^. How many times were people told to read the manual in order to find out what to do? How many hours does the average person have to put in if he wants to survive longer than a minute? ESF is the perfect example of having to put in the work and time in order to get something out of it.

@ Sicron: Comparing freelancer to X3 is like comparing Hawx to Flight Simulator X. Why is one easier than the other? Why are there so many gauges and switches in FSX when all I have to do is press forward in Hawx and win?

As for controlling the ship, that is definitely the easiest part of the game, and the least sim-like aspect. I can't even fathom where difficulties with controlling the ship would arise, unless you're attempting to play from a 3rd person view.

And I find that it is a good comparison. Both games, equally as fun, but very different learning curves.

And it has been quite a while since I last played an X game, but I seem to have vague memories that I had huge problems controlling my ship in X2.

And lastly, I agree with Mkilbride on this one. Having to read 30 pages to play a game, is bad game design. Humans have systems in their head called 'mental models' and these models pretty much save every interactive information we have; from the way we operate controllers, to the way we use a barbeque, to how we are used to using WSAD to play shooters. That's why it is easy to get into a new shooting game, the developers know we are used to using WSAD, so they design the game around those keys.
When Freelancer was released, it wasn't a game that would have to be played with a joystick (though I do believe it is possible), but the developers made sure the game was easily playable using the WSAD keys and a mouse; FPS controls. Thus, anyone with basic FPS knowledge, was easily able to get into the game and start playing.

 

[Spunky]

If you aren't willing to work for vast potential fun, move on to DarkStar One or similar puddle-deep sims. This is an easy game, you just have to learn to play it. It's not bad game design, it's just a hell of a lot deeper than you're used to. The game has a huge following. If you can't figure out how to do something, there's a great chance it's been explained in the manual (a manual that actually explains gameplay mechanics? why yes!). If not, the guys who've put years into the game are waiting to answer you on the forums.

 

[Grega]

Sorry for the late quote and no i did not read past this point.

As I said, ship control in the X-series is a lot more difficult than ship control in Freelancer

You serious? X3 controls are way superior to those of Freelancer. They simply allow you to do so much more. Not to mention in freelancer you were stuck doing the same mission over and over and over again to get cash, where in X you can simply turn pirate and its luctrative enough to start your business.


Now to the topic at hand. I loved X3: Reunion, but when i tried the Terran Conflict it was a bit of a let down. GFX didnt really seem to have changed all that drastically and yet the loading times between systems were nearly 3 times longer. And for what i ask? Even if there are new shaders and all that you only need to load them once, not once for every system. But with the core gameplay not changing that much it was still a fun game.

X and Nexus are possibly 2 of the most under the radar games i know of :s

And ever the reviewers class X wrongly saying its a space flight sim, where its more of a build a trade empire sim ^^

 

[Mkilbride]

Whatever, Gazillionaires is still a better trade Empire Sim.

 

[Spunky]

Loading times between systems is about 5 seconds for me. Loading a saved game is abouty 10.

 

[Grega]

Loading times between systems is about 5 seconds for me. Loading a saved game is abouty 10.

Yea in Reunion that was the case for me to, but in Terran Conflict the loading times were some times up to 3 minutes long. I still played it a bit, but i quickly reverted back to Reunion and Xtended ^^;

Maybe i should have another go at it now that i have an updated CPU, GPU and more RAM. In any case the visuals didnt really change enough to varrant the increase even on my old rig.

 

[Spunky]

There's more to loading than graphics.

 

[Grega]

There's more to loading than graphics.

Yes ships and stations along with asteroids, ship paths and so on. But nothing really more than in Reunion. Thats what puzzles me :s

 

[Zeonix]

I didn't have to read any guides to survive in ESF. I just played, and learned, and had fun. That's not the case in a game like X.

If you have to read a 30 page manual to understand how to have fun - well, that's bad game design.

I guarantee had you fought me on a daily basis, you would have grown to hate the game. No fun would be had on your part.

@Sicron: I'm sure you agree with your comparison as you think it illustrates your point, but again, it's like comparing Hawx to a flight simulator, which is preposterous.

I didn't have to read 30 pages to play the game. Apparently, however, there are people out there who do, yourself and MK included. This isn't meant to be a rude statement, just an observation based on said inability to play the game. If X3's combat controls aren't using a variation of WSAD, that's news to me, as that's all I've ever used. All of the other systems and subsystems use different keys, because unlike an fps, there are a dozen systems you need to work with to be an efficient trader/pilot. If that's just too much for you, again, it's on you. The problem isn't the game. The problem is you. If you don't like that its a sim, the problem is you. Walk away from it. It doesn't pretend to be something its not. Freelancer was an action game, pure and simple, hence its simplicity. It targets a specific kind of gamer. Was the game fun? For a bit, yeah. Was it shallow? Absolutely. It is nowhere near as deep of a game as X3, and so everything is simpler.

Furthermore, X3, as slow and deliberate as it is, is not meant for your typical fps player. It was not designed for that kind of gamer. Saying its harder to figure out than an fps is ridiculous, because of how simple and shallow the fps genre is. No ****, its harder. What isn't? Complaining about the intricacy and complexity of X3 is like questioning the difficulty of playing a flight simulator. Why is it difficult? It's a simulator. The point is to simulate. Airplanes don't just jump into the air when you press one button, and X3 followed that logic.

 

[Mkilbride]

Airplanes do jump into the air when you hit one button.

At least, the Military is designing newer planes to work like that.

 

[Zeonix]

"The Military" isn't an organization, nor do aircraft that actually exist work that way.