vegetas rapidfire?

[SailorAlea]

Actually, my arguments are perfectly valid. I am merely correcting people who say Renzoku Energy Dan is one of Vejita's signature attacks. It isn't.

I am not quoting merely the manga.

The location of a Kamehameha doesn't matter. It's not one of the defining attributes of the attack. Saying the word, 'Kamehameha,' and the attack being blue, are.

The attributes of Renzoku Energy Dan, are the rapid-firing of energy blasts into one place. The cumulative power of shooting mulitple blasts with low or medium power is more effective then one large blast, because there is a lesser chance of the attack being totally ineffective then with a one-shot blast, in case you miss.


"Renzoku is well known as one of vegeta's signature moves because he uses it often, and makes a big impact when he does."

Actually, Vejita does not use Renzoku Energy Dan with any more frequency then Gotenkasu, and his are not -nearly- as effective as Gotenkasu's.

I guess it's your argument that's invalid.

 

[Pain]

simple logic.
if a = b
and b = c
than logically a = c

dbz is based on a manga, esf is based on dbz
logicallly esf is based on the manga.

pwned

 

[Phatslugga]

I never said that it was a "fact" that it was his signature move, i only explained that the fans general opinion was that it is his signature attack, and i beleive it's justified. Unless you know from a reliable source that it isn't his signature attack ( and by reliable i mean the creators, and i mean a straight answer "no, the renzoku isn't one of vegeta's signature attacks) then it won't make a difference. Even if you do get that qoute, the way that the show was presented, made a large quantity of fans beleive it was one of his signature attacks, and you're not going to change that opinion.

And if you want to say that the same attack is different because of an insignificant detail like "location of the blasts" then go ahead, i will agree to disagree, but i for one don't think that it should make any difference.

 

[SailorAlea]

Your entire argument is based on that it really is 'Renzoku Energy Dan,' despite the location of the blasts.

This is where you're flawed so much.

The first time the term 'Renzoku Energy Dan' is used in the manga, is Vejita thinking about Kuii's attack, he explains it's advantage, which I've already said. (More effective, less chance to miss)

You keep insisting the location is insignificant when in fact that's what makes the attack what it is. The location of the blasts is just as important to Renzoku Energy Dan as the color blue, or the saying of the technique is, to Kamehameha.

You can disagree all you like but it just shows your ignorance of the true story of DBZ, which is the manga.

The manga contains infinitely more background information then the anime, and to truly understand the anime you must read the manga.

 

[Phatslugga]

Ok, look at it this way. Vegeta blasts a bunch of ki balls into one spot, he just did the renzoku energy dan, krillen attempts it, it's scattered, wow, krillen SUCKS at the renzoku energy dan, but it's still the same attack. Please don't call me ignorant, just because i disagree with you gives you no right to call me ignorant. I haven't read the manga, oh well, there is nothing that i don't understand in the anime. You can try and say that you have more knowledge than me about DBZ, and most likely you do. But in this case, that knowledge isn't needed, it's common sense.

 

[SailorAlea]

No, I'm calling you ignorant of the true story, by your own admitting you haven't read it. It is on that basis I call you ignorant, it is not just some random flame insult.

"Ok, look at it this way. Vegeta blasts a bunch of ki balls into one spot, he just did the renzoku energy dan, krillen attempts it, it's scattered, wow, krillen SUCKS at the renzoku energy dan, but it's still the same attack."

No, in that case, Vejita performed the Renzoku Energy Dan, and Kururin performed another attack, which may or may not have a name--It's not that he's doing it badly, it's that he's not doing Renzoku Energy Dan.

Edit: Let's just call this a difference of opinion and end the arguing. It's obviously not getting either one of us very far.

 

[Phatslugga]

Heh, that's just ridiculous. It's assumed that the unnamed attack you speak of, is the same attack, but not performed with the same skill. at most, i would call it just another variation of the same attack, but that still makes it the same attack. Tell me, when someone isn't well trained in an attack, it's either weaker, or they can't control it properly, or both. Thus it's the renzoku energy dan. no, i;m not ignorant of the true story, all of my arguments are based on the anime, and every bit of information that you provide from the manga makes no difference, you've not given me a difference big enough to make it a different attack, becuase one does not exist. It's all a matter of skill.

 

[SailorAlea]

No..
A weak or uncontrolled attack is still pretty much the same.

As an example--
In the Budokai in the Buu saga, Goten fights Trunks.
"Kamehameha.."
Trunks: Did Gohan teach you how to control it?
Goten: ...
*blows a chunk out of readyroom's roof*

Notice, he still said Kamehameha, and the attack was blue. It's weak and uncontrolled, but the underlying principles remain the same.

If Vejita blasts 50 blasts randomly, it's just using energy. If those same 50 blasts hit the same target, it's Renzoku Energy Dan, because that's it's pre-requisite for being called that.

I don't know where you've got this idea that "skill" is involved in throwing a blast at the same person or spot.

Sure, someone not very skilled might not have the energy land on the same -spot- on the body, and that happens many times. All over the body.

Skill isn't a factor in Renzoku Energy Dan, besides the energy needed to fuel the attack.

Edit: If you're talking about someone just so utterly inept and badly aiming the Renzoku, that his blasts just 'happen' to miss the one spot completely, that never happens in DBZ. Everyone who uses it has a general mastery of ki at the time they use it.

 

[Phatslugga]

You're underlining my point. he was less skilled in the attack therefore the kamehameha lands on an unintended target.

same idea with the renzoku energy dan, he/she is not skilled in the attack, thus the ki balls end up scattering, becuase it was too strong of an attack for the attacker to control.

It is the same attack, if the location to the blasts are scattered (unintentionally) then it's the same attack but the attacker is unskilled in it. If it's scattered intentionally then it's a different variation of the same attack.

Also in blind fury, the attack might be scattered becuase they are blinded by anger, and aren't focused enough on the attack. Still doesn't change the attack.

 

[SailorAlea]

No, it's not the same idea, because while there is an example of an untrained Kamehameha, there is no example of an untrained Renzoku Energy Dan.

In DBZ, there is no case of someone trying to put a large amount of energy balls in one place, and missing.

The CLOSEST thing to what you're refering would be Piccolo vs. Android 17, where he blasts him, misses, gets frustrated, and picks up the pace--but he had Scattershot in mind all along.

 

[Phatslugga]

*sigh*
I'm saying that as an example, you don't really know if they handled the attack or not, becuase after blind rage they don't always say a line like "wow, that was a hard attack to control".
It's implied that the attack was sloppy/scattered, because of blind rage, or the power of the attack might have been a bit overwhelming for the attacker.

*REMEMBER* this is all my opinion, this does not make it fact, it's just what i think.

Even if there never was a point in DBZ where someone wasn't trained enough to control that attack, the closest thing you could call it, would be another variation of the same attack.

 

[SailorAlea]

You don't know whether they handled the attack well or not because there's no reason to think they didn't! In any case where someone tries repeated energy, and misses, they don't say "Damn! I was aiming for the same spot, but I was too mad to control it!" There's no reason to think that they would, anyway. If anything, in DBZ, anger causes concentration in battle, a focused, powerful attack or string of attacks.

Anger doesn't usually make people sloppy in DBZ. The most angry people in DBZ, were SSJ2 Gohan and Majin Vejita, and they fought particularly well in my opinion.


And in any case..you're saying, "Generic beam" is a variation of Kamehameha, just because it's a beam?

Just because someone uses many ki blasts, doesn't make it renzoku -unless- they target the same spot. That's the end of the story, because Renzoku Energy Dan has a clear definition in the manga.

 

[Phatslugga]

No, the generic beam is a whole different attack because it is by far weaker than the kamehameha.

That's debatable, Anger is waht usually cuases a dumb decision, and sloppy attacks. vegeta throwing a renzoku energy dan at cell, which did absolutley nothing to him. vegeta knew he was incapable of doing much damage to cell, but in his blinding fury, he didn't care. But there are times when it creates advantage for the attacker, becuase they get a boost of power.

either way, it still doesn't make it a whole different attack, it simply is a different variation of the same attack.

i'd like to take this moment to thank you, i always do love a good argument, winning or losing.(no sarcasm) .

 

[SailorAlea]

Anger isn't the cause of most dumb decisions in DBZ. I'd say pride, or forgiveness..i.e., Cell being allowed to transform into Perfect Cell, Goku forgiving Furiza and turning his back on him, etc..

I think Vejita knew inside he couldn't really hurt Cell, but he did it anyway as a tribute to Trunks..
Plus, people seem to forget that Vejita spent a second year in the room of Spirit and Time, but he still didn't reach SSJ2--perhaps he thought the power change from his original emergence from the room, would be enough.

I don't think anger ever causes sloppy attacks, except in the case of Nappa or Brolli, and Brolli doesn't count as he's only in the movies..

The person who uses anger most to their advantage is Gohan, but I think I'm just rambling now.

Thanks for the argument, to you as well ^_^

 

[Halorin]

You all are straying from the fact that the Renzoku sucks for Vegeta as is. That's basically the point. I don't care who uses it in the cartoon, manga, fan art, or fantasy. What I do care about is it being a complete waste of my time and ki and it taking away the actually worthwhile ki blast attack. For the time it takes to charge a maxed Renzoku, it should fire like, 30, and only the last 5 become a blob. If all the balls fired were the equivalent to Piccolo's scatter shot balls, then I'd have no problem.

 

[Phatslugga]

Eh, you can't say vegeta wasn't angry in that attack, he just lost his only son ( at least he thought he lost him) and he unleashed a can of whoopass on cell, but cell was apparently immune to whoopass. I'm just going to leave it at this. I agree to disagree.

 

[SailorAlea]

Huh? I didn't say he wasn't angry. I think he was so mad he attacked, even though he knew it wouldn't work. (By the way, Trunks did die from that attack, he just held on for a little while. Shen-long has to revive him, and he wakes up on "Kami's Lookout."

P.S. Very nice Signature, Halorin. ^_^

 

[EfFeCt]

ok the energy dan thingy is vegetas signiture look on any sites but it doesnt say that he mad it up it says that he is probably the best at it because he does it like all the time so stop B)tCh!n and just discuss this forum and its about ??? well i forgot but vegetas blast things really SUCK and need alot of work they take too long and another thing is the health it would be cool if you didnt get killed so easy so you could have really long fightes with each other sorry if i have just gone on with alot of stuff that doesnt make sense i just felt like saying something

 

[SailorAlea]

Wow, your post came about 2 days after anybody stopped caring. How amusing.

Plus, sites are made by fans of the American dub, almost exclusively, where it's not explained. It's not even fully explained in the japanese series, you have to read the manga.

 

[D.C. Darkling]

Cell uses kiblasts simply cause he starts em slow, the blast is red.. (renzoku never is), he does it with one hand, all who i ever saw doing a renzoku like move bended a little to there target, insanely firing alot of blasts. Cell doet it more in a BB position and is thereby kiblasting.