Upgrading my comp

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The price drop mentioned earlier is due to intel releasing it's new Core 2 duo Processors, otherwise known as Conroe.
 
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Walmart Security said:
Holy ****, you are getting all of that?.
Well i'm assuming it will last me a decent while. Will it?
 
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It will. I've used this computer:

os [WinXP Professional 5.1 Service Pack 2 (Build #2600), x86]
cpu [2 x Intel Pentium 4 @ 3.00 GHz]
mem [Physical: 495 MB, 116 MB Free]
disk[Total: 111.78 GB, 17.73 GB Free]
video[ATi Radeon X600/X550 Series (Omega 3.8.252)]
sound[Realtek HD Audio rear output]

for over two years now, and the only upgrade I had to make was getting the new video card. Next upgrade will be the RAM.

If all you're looking for is better performance in WoW, then that is perfect for you, as well as any future games that are coming out.
 
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K, ty. :)

Should have more news after this wednesday when I get paid.
 
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I decided to take the time to look at prices and came up with this config:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138026 - $79.99 -
BIOSTAR TFORCE 550 Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 550 MCP ATX AMD Motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103735 - $297
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ AM2

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231048 - $73.98 (2 sticks)
G.SKILL Extreme Series 512MB 240-Pin DDR2 (PC2 5400)
Newegg review said:
Pros: Works great with my AM2 system. boots right up with no problems concerning the voltage as many people have had with other brands. Orange heatspreader is a nice touch. Very fast also, highly recommende...
d. Runs everything at max settings.

Cons: None, should've gotten more.... More ?


Other Thoughts: Works great on my ASUS M2N-E socket AM2 Motherboard coupled with an X2 4200+.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130017 - $159.99
eVGA 256-P2-N554-AX Geforce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card

EDIT: PSU : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153023 - $39.99
Thermaltake TR2 W0070 ATX 430W Power Supply 115/230 V - Retail

Total: $650.95
Total with a 7900gt: $760.95


Personally I'd save the money and get a 7600gt. Titles like Cryssis will be a DX10 game, up untill now all wev'e seen of it has been it running in DX9 simply due to the fact that there is no DX10 hardware out at the moment, and some time further down the track you might want to get a new graphics card yet again. Waiting till Conroe chips are released though is anotehr option, as already stated there will be a price drop across the board for processors at that time (however, it's up to you how soon you want a new setup).
 
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|Overlord| said:
I decided to take the time to look at prices and came up with this config:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138026 - $79.99 -
BIOSTAR TFORCE 550 Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 550 MCP ATX AMD Motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103735 - $297
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ AM2

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145568 - $77.99
CORSAIR VALUE SELECT 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR2 667MHZ

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130017 - $159.99
eVGA 256-P2-N554-AX Geforce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card

Total: $614.97
Total with a 7900gt: $724.97
That would be decent if it weren't for the fact that the timings on that DDR2 RAM were terrible. Not only that, but quite a few people were complaining of it being borked upon arrival.
After running MemTest x86 with different configurations, I noticed that the Corsair Value Select DDR2 667 sticks were getting way too many errors at the SPD default voltage setting of 1.80v. I upped the voltage to 2.1v and was able to run stable at dual channel. Next time I will purchase more quality memory.
Cons: Went bad and starting causing my PC to completely hard-lock about every hour, also randomly causes Windows XP to reboot without error codes in the Event Viewer.
Cons: At totally random parts of gaming or very intensive programs my computer would either freeze or reboot. Running memory test programs caught no errors in my Ram. Yet after I pull out one of my 512 sticks everything runs fine.
Cons: but ramdom window shutdown happens about every week and a half. i would have gotten better if i had the money.
Overlord said:
Personally I'd save the money and get a 7600gt. Titles like Cryssis will be a DX10 game, up untill now all wev'e seen of it has been it running in DX9 simply due to the fact that there is no DX10 hardware out at the moment, and some time further down the track you might want to get a new graphics card yet again.
Why wait for DirectX10 when 10.1 is RIGHT behind it?

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32524

Oh, and you've also neglected to include the PSU, |Overlord|. My personal opinion dictates that the computer Devion and I've set him up with will be more than capable, and even though S939 is going to be unsupported soon, there's plenty of CPUs over a 3800X2 that can keep him content for quite a while.
 
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Smith| said:
That would be decent if it weren't for the fact that the timings on that DDR2 RAM were terrible. Not only that, but quite a few people were complaining of it being borked upon arrival.
Why wait for DirectX10 when 10.1 is RIGHT behind it?

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32524

Oh, and you've also neglected to include the PSU, |Overlord|. My personal opinion dictates that the computer Devion and I've set him up with will be more than capable, and even though S939 is going to be unsupported soon, there's plenty of CPUs over a 3800X2 that can keep him content for quite a while.
The Inquirer said:
THE VOLE hasn't even finished the DirectX 10 that is supposed to come early next year with Vista, and we are already starting to hear that there will be a new addition to the specification.

We don't have any specific idea what the new things inside the new Direct X 10.1 specs may be and we are well aware that the Vole can simply change its name to Direct X 10.a or something of a similar sort. That happened recently with Direct X 9.c which was supposed to be released as Direct X 9.1, but that was more of an Nvidia versus ATI specification fight.

It's funny though, as Direct X 10 looks quite ready and you can already play about with the Direct X 10 SDK beta. As Vista got postponed a few times, the DirectX chaps figured out a few things that they can change and fix. The Windows Graphic Foundation 2.0, or what we now know as Direct X 10, has been finalised for more than a few months now and there are no changes to those specs. It is a done deal.

That is why there will be a new one, but we don?t yet know what new stuff it will bring. ?
I was actually just reading that before I viewed this thread. Most games probably won't use 10.1 effects straghit away anyway, and most games that do I imagine will use a DX10 path anyway for cards that aren't 10.1 cards. Remember, the only difference between Directx9 and 9c was the implementation of shader model 3, and games like Far cry released updates to support it, however ati's cards at the time did not have support for SM3 so it used a different path for rendering.

I probably should of remembered the psu, the psu you and devion reccomended should do fine in a system that I reccomended anyway.
and even though S939 is going to be unsupported soon, there's plenty of CPUs over a 3800X2 that can keep him content for quite a while.
I don't see any plans for a newer core design (K8L) ever being released for 939, and why buy another socket939 chip when you would want to upgrade at another time in the future.

I edited my previous post and changed the memory in the config.
 
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|Overlord| said:
I was actually just reading that before I viewed this thread. Most games probably won't use 10.1 effects straghit away anyway, and most games that do I imagine will use a DX10 path anyway for cards that aren't 10.1 cards. Remember, the only difference between Directx9 and 9c was the implementation of shader model 3, and games like Far cry released updates to support it
I was using 10.1 as an example because it's pointless to say "WAIT FOR BLAH" when another will be right behind it.
however ati's cards at the time did not have support for SM3 so it used a different path for rendering
... and got the same exact visual quality.
Most games probably won't use 10.1 effects straghit away anyway
I could say the exact same for 10.
I don't see any plans for a newer core design (K8L) ever being released for 939, and why buy another socket939 chip when you would want to upgrade at another time in the future.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. There's plenty of CPUs currently existing over a 3800X2 that can keep him content for quite a while.
I edited my previous post and changed the memory in the config.
Better, but not great.
 
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Smith| said:
Thermaltake TR2 W0070 ATX 430W Power Supply 115/230 V - Retail
However, they would make little difference in terms of an upgrade in the future bryond the point of buyying a new system now.
I was using 10.1 as an example because you it's pointless to say "WAIT FOR BLAH" when another will be right behind it.
You don't make such a good point there. Will DX9 hardware run DX10 affects? No. There is very little difference in the terms of DX10.1, games will still use a different rendering path for hardware that isn't DX10.1 compliant, and as of yet there has been no word of games that are going to be made using 10.1 affects.
Better, but not great.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2741&p=5
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2741&p=4
The higher timings don't seem to be making a negative performance effect, read these benchmarks.
 
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However, they would make little difference in terms of an upgrade in the future bryond the point of buyying a new system now.
I consider a 3800X2 to an FX60/4800X2 to be a decent upgrade.
|Overlord| said:
You don't make such a good point there. Will DX9 hardware run DX10 affects? No. There is very little difference in the terms of DX10.1, games will still use a different rendering path for hardware that isn't DX10.1 compliant, and as of yet there has been no word of games that are going to be made using 10.1 affects.
Actually, I do. Does DX9 run DX9c effects? No. If anything you're proving my point:
games will still use a different rendering path for hardware that isn't DX10.1
Why wait for the next best thing when the next best thing is right around the corner... right after the next best thing? It'd be a never ending chain. Come a month people will be saying "DON'T BUY DX10, WAIT FOR DX10.1 IT R BETTAR."
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2741&p=5
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2741&p=4
The higher timings don't seem to be making a negative performance effect, read these benchmarks.
Hm, interesting.
 
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Smith| said:
I consider a 3800X2 to an FX60/4800X2 to be a decent upgrade.
Prices are high for such processors, plus AMD will soon halt production on 939 chips aswell, whatever is left will be left over stock. However this could be different in the case of Sempron chips for 939, however most of them were shipped to OEMs anyway.
Actually, I do. Does DX9 run DX9c effects? No. If anything you're proving my point:Why wait when the next best thing is right around the corner... right after the next best thing?
DirectX9 isn't DirectX10, Will a DX9 card give you directX 10 effects? And what titles have been annouced recently that will use directX 10.1 effects? (Updates to games may implement such affects but still, it's better to have a DX10 card in DX10.X games then a DX9/DX9c card. A DX9 card will just run in compatibility mode.

Hm, interesting.
12345678......
 
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Don't quote my post and edit the quote, makes quoting difficult. Note to Smiff: Don't say quote three times in one sentence.
|Overlord| said:
Prices are high for such processors, plus AMD will soon halt production on 939 chips aswell, whatever is left will be left over stock.
Am I telling him to purchase them now? No. Generally, as time goes by, stuff lowers in price. Think, Overlord.
DirectX9 isn't DirectX10, Will a DX9 card give you directX 10 effects? And what titles have been annouced recently that will use directX 10.1 effects?(Updates to games may implement such affects but still, it's better to have a DX10 card in DX10.X games then a DX9/DX9c card. A DX9 card will just run in compatibility mode.
Hm, interesting.
Where do you see DX10 in "Does DX9 run DX9c effects?"? Did I say that DX9 was DX10? No. As I said before, it was an example. Why should you wait for something 'better' and when the moment that comes out, something even better is being produced? Just go for what you can and all is good.

I'm going to bed. Feel free to continue this 'arguement' with yourself for about 8 hours. I'll correct you when I wake up.
 
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Smith| said:
Don't quote my post and edit the quote, makes quoting difficult. Note to Smiff: Don't say quote three times in one sentence.Am I telling him to purchase them now? No. Generally, as time goes by, stuff lowers in price. Think, Overlord.
However, when do you want to purchase something that is outdated, would there still be stock of it left by the time you want to ge it, would a better processor be out that is worth getting in comparision?. Why buy a outdated processor for an older platfrom?. Read earlier about what I said about AMD haulting 939 production and then you'll understand.
Where do you see DX10 in "Does DX9 run DX9c effects?"? Did I say that DX9 was DX10? No. As I said before, it was an example. Why should you wait for something 'better' and when the moment that comes out, something even better is being produced? Just go for what you can and all is good.
If your prepared to pay the price for such hardware then by all means why not, just be aware of what's next. As stated before, there is no word of games that are going to be using DX10.1 effects at this stage because it is still way to early in delvelopment. If you were to come to a different opinion, I was stating that DX9 cards will NOT give you DX10 gfx in games. If you also want your performance being crap in a game in compatibility mode then go ahead.
I'm going to bed. Feel free to continue this 'arguement' with yourself for about 8 hours. I'll correct you when I wake up.
Facts, not argument, who's sayying your my superior? we are discussing future technology based on facts and debating rather then arguing, and the product cycle of current hardware.
10 characters.
 
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Now you're just quote-editing to be an ass.
|Overlord| said:
However, when do you want to purchase something that is outdated, would there still be stock of it left by the time you want to ge it, would a better processor be out that is worth getting in comparision?. Why buy a outdated processor for an older platfrom?. Read earlier about what I said about AMD haulting 939 production and then you'll understand.
Socket A has been pretty much discontinued, but I can still find many processors for it.
If your prepared to pay the price for such hardware then by all means why not, just be aware of what's next. As stated before, there is no word of games that are going to be using DX10.1 effects at this stage because it is still way to early in delvelopment.
More than likely there will be and even if not, the one after it will.
If you were to come to a different opinion, I was stating that DX9 cards will NOT give you DX10 gfx in games. If you also want your performance being crap in a game in compatibility mode then go ahead.
Do you seriously think that game developers are going to force people to have terrible frame rates in games because they can't use DX10 options? My god, Overlord. Going back a DX level isn't "compatibility" mode, it's called scaling back. You'll still get very acceptable performance.

Does Half-Life 2 give you terrible frame rates when you can't run DX9? No, it just scales it back to DX8. Does Farcry give you terrible frame rates when you can't use HDR and/or SM3? No. It just scales it back.

My God, why are we even arguing about DX10 hardware? Don't you know that pretty much every first release for a new DX has sucked when it needs to use it? The Radeon 9700, while nice, did quite bad when full DX9 scenes were used. The GeForce 3 did pretty bad in full DX8 settings. The G80 not will do so well in DX10 settings. So I'm going to requote you.
Overlord Corrected said:
If you also want your performance being crap in a game in DX10 mode because it's a first generation DX10 card, then go ahead.
Facts, not argument
You call speculation fact? Eh, if you want.
who's sayying your my superior?
I can name a few.
 
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I can name a few.
Just becuase I have a difference on opinion in all of this, doesn't mean you can start tryying direct put downs at me.
Do you seriously think that game developers are going to force people to have terrible frame rates in games because they can't use DX10 options? My god, Overlord. Going back a DX level isn't "compatibility" mode, it's called scaling back. You'll still get very acceptable performance.
Yes, however you'd think the people who buy the game wold want to play it the way they saw it, especially considering that DX10 is major change in terms of a dx10 upgrade, even drivers are being changed to operate in a different way then they do today (not in terms of just adding stuff, but removing driver overhead, ATI has been doing research into this and there has been some slides about what is being done).
Socket A has been pretty much discontinued, but I can still find many processors for it.
Yeah, Semprons or second hand Athlon XP or older chips. What they have that you can buy new is left over stock. I myself am currently planning on buyying another Socket A chip for my older mainboard for a spare pc as it is, and i'm resorting to buyying a chip second hand.
Do you seriously think that game developers are going to force people to have terrible frame rates in games because they can't use DX10 options? My god, Overlord. Going back a DX level isn't "compatibility" mode, it's called scaling back. You'll still get very acceptable performance.
However, with each gfx card generation comes a game that will push it to it's limits, and where older hardware can start to lag (and before you start sayying such crap and taking me back to geforce2 days, I'm not going back that far).
Does Half-Life 2 give you terrible frame rates when you can't run DX9? No, it just scales it back to DX8. Does Farcry give you terrible frame rates when you can't use HDR and/or SM3? No. It just scales it back.
HL2 or anything source was ok for me on a FX5200 provided I had my settings turned down, then I temporairly had to use a mx440 and I noticed everything working like a dog. Yeah, I was scaled back however the game ran like a dog, even on low settings, not to mention I wasn't happy with the Graphics quality too. Consider this when your'e talking about older hardware, even crap cards like this in new games. All in all it will depend on what your'e running it on.
The G80 not will do so well in DX10 settings.
G80 based cards haven't even been released yet and yet your'e already speculating on it's performance. Is this your opinion on R600 aswell? (They are aiming for a 1ghz core clock on R600). All we happen to know of G80 currently that is has twice as many pixel Shader numbers as geometry and vertex Shaders and supposedly is going to have 32pipes. Maybe wait till NDA for benchmarks are lifted and then look at some benchmarks.
 
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|Overlord| said:
Yes, however you'd think the people who buy the game wold want to play it the way they saw it, especially considering that DX10 is major change in terms of a dx10 upgrade, even drivers are being changed to operate in a different way then they do today (not in terms of just adding stuff, but removing driver overhead, ATI has been doing research into this and there has been some slides about what is being done).
I don't know about you, but I will be able to play it how I saw it considering that pretty much everything we've seen in Crysis, for example, has been DX9.
Yeah, Semprons or second hand Athlon XP or older chips. What they have that you can buy new is left over stock. I myself am currently planning on buyying another Socket A chip for my older mainboard for a spare pc as it is, and i'm resorting to buyying a chip second hand.
Not many people buy the highest of the highest end today, which = more for later when they're cheaper..
However, with each gfx card generation comes a game that will push it to it's limits, and where older hardware can start to lag (and before you start sayying such crap and taking me back to geforce2 days, I'm not going back that far).
I don't really know what point you're trying to make with this, lol.
HL2 or anything source was ok for me on a FX5200 provided I had my settings turned down, then I temporairly had to use a mx440 and I noticed everything working like a dog. Yeah, I was scaled back however the game ran like a dog, even on low settings, not to mention I wasn't happy with the Graphics quality too. Consider this when your'e talking about older hardware, even crap cards like this in new games. All in all it will depend on what your'e running it on.
That's because GeForce 4 MX cards are the worst cards ever. It's funny how you told me not to go back to GeForce 2 days when you go and do it in the very next paragraph (lol). GeForce 4 MXs are basically GeForce 2s.

Go from a 9800 to an 8500 and it'll still be very playable, albeit at lesser settings.
G80 based cards haven't even been released yet and yet your'e already speculating on it's performance. Is this your opinion on R600 aswell? (They are aiming for a 1ghz core clock on R600). All we happen to know of G80 currently that is has twice as many pixel Shader numbers as geometry and vertex Shaders and supposedly is going to have 32pipes. Maybe wait till NDA for benchmarks are lifted and then look at some benchmarks.
Yes, I'll speculate on it based on how previous cards have done.
 
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Goodness... can't we all just get along? Why don't you guys try working together... or something, instead of bickering with each other all the time =p

As far as my input goes... I never recommend upgrading old PCs. I would consider Kama's pretty old. Outtdated memory, mobo, just about everything. Upgrading really isn't worth it... sure you can slap a 7600GT in there and you'll see a performance boost. But you wouldn't get your money's worth of that 76GT unless it was in a decent processor with some good RAM. At least, that's how I see it. Go all or go home as they say.


Ooo... someone quoted me in their sig! Woot! You know I was up the better part of the night thinking of that one Overlord.
 
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Tassadar said:
As far as my input goes... I never recommend upgrading old PCs. I would consider Kama's pretty old. Outtdated memory, mobo, just about everything. Upgrading really isn't worth it... sure you can slap a 7600GT in there and you'll see a performance boost. But you wouldn't get your money's worth of that 76GT unless it was in a decent processor with some good RAM. At least, that's how I see it. Go all or go home as they say.
My thoughts exactly.
 
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Smith| said:
I don't know about you, but I will be able to play it how I saw it considering that pretty much everything we've seen in Crysis, for example, has been DX9.
Yes, in compatibility mode, not using DX10 Graphics
Not many people buy the highest of the highest end today, which = more for later when they're cheaper..
If that's the case, a 7800gt should be cheaper now however some sites still list them in a simlar price range of a 7900gt, I'd think this because of Nvidia marketing SLI. Also, If AMD is not going to release any new chips for 939 why bother going out to by a better cpu for a outdated platform, which could be harder to find, obtain (and if you'd find it, it'd be left over stock). I couls see the point if it was a Dual core chip however, but it'd best be done and out of the way now to get a dual core chip in comparision to a single core chip.
I don't really know what point you're trying to make with this, lol.
May I suggest more reading and thinking if you don't seem to undersand the point?
That's because GeForce 4 MX cards are the worst cards ever. It's funny how you told me not to go back to GeForce 2 days when you go and do it in the very next post. GeForce 4 MXs are basically GeForce 2s.
Like I don't already know that, thanks for telling me information I'm already well aware of, if you must mock me for posting my experience with the product the so be it, I had to use it temporairly because my brother needed the FX5200 I was using for a dell pc that could only fit in small form factor cards. Iv'e also used Geforce2 cards, benchmarked a Gefore2 GTS in comparision to a MX440 and pulled out simlar 3Dmark scores only differing by a couple of hundred points. MX440 was mass marketed by OEMs, when Geforce2 cards won't aswell, so some people would also come to assume that a mx440 was better.

Go from a 9800 to an 8500 and it'll still be very playable, albeit at lesser settings.
Yes, lesser settings, however Kama mentions he wants to paly at higher settings the he currently does.
Yes, I'll speculate on it based on how previous cards have done.
There are many reasons as to one may want to upgrade their computer, the user may not be happy with certain aspects of their current setup.

Now you're just quote-editing to be an ass.
Iv'e been typing the quote tags in most of my posts anyway, how hard can it be to type them?.
Tassadar said:
Goodness... can't we all just get along? Why don't you guys try working together... or something, instead of bickering with each other all the time =p

As far as my input goes... I never recommend upgrading old PCs. I would consider Kama's pretty old. Outtdated memory, mobo, just about everything. Upgrading really isn't worth it... sure you can slap a 7600GT in there and you'll see a performance boost. But you wouldn't get your money's worth of that 76GT unless it was in a decent processor with some good RAM. At least, that's how I see it. Go all or go home as they say.
Agreed.
 
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|Overlord| said:
Yes, in compatibility mode, not using DX10 Graphics
That's fine by me. DirectX9 (or as you say, compatibility mode) will still get great visuals and great performance.
If that's the case, a 7800gt should be cheaper now however some sites still list them in a simlar price range of a 7900gt, I'd think this because of Nvidia marketing SLI.
Why do you even ask if you answer your own question?
Also, If AMD is not going to release any new chips for 939 why bother going out to by a better cpu for a outdated platform, which could be harder to find, obtain (and if you'd find it, it'd be left over stock).
What's wrong with it being leftover stock? Are you a righty?
I couls see the point if it was a Dual core chip however, but it'd best be done and out of the way now to get a dual core chip in comparision to a single core chip.
What makes you think I'm going to recommend him a single core CPU when in almost every recommendation I've made includes a dual core CPU?
May I suggest more reading and thinking if you don't seem to undersand the point?
May I suggest more grammatical accuracy so you can get your point across?
Like I don't already know that, thanks for telling me information I'm already well aware of
Then act like you know it, Overlord. You're edging into hypocrisy.
Yes, lesser settings, however Kama mentions he wants to paly at higher settings the he currently does.
A 7900GT will be able to play at ENORMOUSLY higher settings than he currently does.
 

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