To The Developers

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To the People who are developing this mod,

This is an honest criticism which I believe most of the people who like this game and DBZ share.

I see that there are some fanboys in the forum who will immediately flame and "Devs have better things to you" , "ah here comes another one who wants a release date" and all sorts of meaningless comments like that, SAVE YOUR BREATH and leave.

I won't start my sentence by saying "you guys are doing a great job" because I don't even know what you are doing. I know you have news and videos on updates but you have to realize that they don't make sense at all. For example you claim that your new update added/improved the gameplay? heck no one knows what it was like before so you can not expect people to appreciate it.

I now visit your site 1-2 times a YEAR because it is more like a dead mod and I really have no expectations left which I believe is the case for a lot of your now "old" fan base.

It is clear that you don't have enough devs and time to finish the game as good as you want it to be. This is expected because you are not getting paid and I am not blaiming you for not having the time it is life. But I think there are some obvious things which may revive this mod.

1. Stop worrying about artwork. They do NOT make a game (many highschool students who are capable of working on 3d animations so you won't have difficuly on finding new people who will continue working on it while people are playing the game). Although the artwork is nice the overall graphich quality in terms of todays standarts is still below average. I know it is hl1 engine and you have actually rewritten lots of the code I appreciate the effort BUT I am sorry to say that implementing the already known methods is not a big achievement. If you work in the industry you know what I mean.

2. Stop staying as a small closed community. Betaplay should have been open to much wider audiences not a selected bunch. Your popularity would have been quite high if you did that.

3. Free to play ? I wish you would charge and have released the game a few years ago instead. Being free is meaningless for an unreleased game. Of course if you charge for the game you may have trouble with Funimation since you will be quite popular and they may not like it. Still being paid for your efforts is motivating and allows you to work on the project better.

4. Your popularity was because of DBZ franchise and after all these years its popularity is diminishing, new kids have new animes and you may find yourself to be a stuck with a forgotten mod when you decide to release it in 2032.


Try to take criticism with an open mind, I like you all and that is why I am writing all these.
 
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Well regarding gameplay. Everyone knows how it was before. Just load up 1.2.3 ^^;

But yea i dont mind threads like this. Im afraid we have some community members who think otherwise though.

1.) Our problem with artwork is mostly that while we get people who apply, hardly anyone stays active or even finishes their trial task. And its not like they dont have the skill. Far from it. But still the most work ATM goes in to coding i suppose. Optimization of the engine and so forth.

2.) We had an open beta going. Didnt work well. Or rather didnt work at all. Just required us to waste more time on making sure the public releases were as stable as possible that we now use for fixing stuff.

3.) If we even charge as little as 1 cent for the game we are pretty much asking for a lawsuit. So thats a no go unless someone from Funimation comes up to us and says they want ESF to be an official DBZ game.

4.) Thats true and not true at the same time. For some reason or another the best players of this game were not really fans of the anime o_O Though the majority of people were fans, most of them quit due to the high learning curve of ESF. Especially after 1.2.3 made the difference in skill skyrocket.
 
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Free to play ? I wish you would charge and have released the game a few years ago instead. Being free is meaningless for an unreleased game. Of course if you charge for the game you may have trouble with Funimation since you will be quite popular and they may not like it. Still being paid for your efforts is motivating and allows you to work on the project better.
I don't get what are you suggesting. To charge for the game and get shut down? Because that would definitely happen.

I'm assuming you're some sort of game dev? If so, show us the project(s) you have worked/are working on.
 
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I'm not a part of the developing team, but as a game developer and a fan of ESForces and it's team, I would like to say some things.

I won't start my sentence by saying "you guys are doing a great job" because I don't even know what you are doing. I know you have news and videos on updates but you have to realize that they don't make sense at all. For example you claim that your new update added/improved the gameplay? heck no one knows what it was like before so you can not expect people to appreciate it.
I now visit your site 1-2 times a YEAR because it is more like a dead mod and I really have no expectations left which I believe is the case for a lot of your now "old" fan base.
If you really were paying attention, you would see that there are tons of new features since the open beta, a new melee system, a weather system, really cool shader work and tons of new effects. Not to mention all the new maps, sound effects and alot of new models plus animations.


It is clear that you don't have enough devs and time to finish the game as good as you want it to be. This is expected because you are not getting paid and I am not blaiming you for not having the time it is life. But I think there are some obvious things which may revive this mod.
Like Grega said, they can not be paid because of the licence issue. Still there aren't that much guys working on ESF at the moment, but that's also because there aren't enough skilled or devoted guys which would apply to the team.

1. Stop worrying about artwork. They do NOT make a game (many highschool students who are capable of working on 3d animations so you won't have difficuly on finding new people who will continue working on it while people are playing the game). Although the artwork is nice the overall graphich quality in terms of todays standarts is still below average. I know it is hl1 engine and you have actually rewritten lots of the code I appreciate the effort BUT I am sorry to say that implementing the already known methods is not a big achievement. If you work in the industry you know what I mean.
They started the mod from a HL1 engine, they also stated they will not use a different engine to finish it. Considering the fact that they come this far, with these cool graphics is really amazing. You've got to consider the fact that these graphics are really great for low computers. Also, if you would increase the quality of the graphics, it would take a lot more time and it would even be unrealistic towards the original DBZ concept. It would not remotely be similar to DBZ, besides, that's not their goal.


2. Stop staying as a small closed community. Betaplay should have been open to much wider audiences not a selected bunch. Your popularity would have been quite high if you did that.
(I'm gonna repeat Grega's reply right now)
If you were paying attention at three years ago(maybe more), you would've seen an open beta where players could play the newer version and most importantly give feedback about the game. That last part didn't happen, which is the whole point of having Open Beta Tests. There was simply no constructive feedback of the community. And frankly I don't see any of that constructive support in the current community.


4. Your popularity was because of DBZ franchise and after all these years its popularity is diminishing, new kids have new animes and you may find yourself to be a stuck with a forgotten mod when you decide to release it in 2032.
While that is partially true, your argument is invalid.
Besides this being a manga based mod, it's still a great fighting game with extraordinary powers. It's a theme which kids of todays(even which haven't watched the series) would love.
And stop giving the 'you will release it in `current date + random years`' speech, because A. you don't know how much work it is, and B. the dev team has a life of their own, with work, familiy and their own leasure time.

Don't see this post as a hate post, just as criticism towards your criticism.
 
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1. Artwork and engine/coding progress are 2 separate things. There are people who work on artwork and people who work on the coding part. Artwork isnt slowing the whole process down by anything, unless people from coding do artwork from time to time or/and the other way around. Actually, getting a HL1 engine to look how ESF 1.3 currently looks I'd say its quite a achievment. :)

2. Small closed community? I believe you're reffering to the developer community. Yeah as people mentioned, there was a open beta some time ago that didn't go to well hence why they do NOT do it now. We (the community) had the chance with the open beta, we (generaly speaking) flamed/bashed the developers and thats why things are like they are now.

3. I would also agree to this but we know what would happen if they charged money. Perhaps a donation option on the site?
 
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I don't think he has been around long enough to understand what happened with Bid for Power to understand the charging thing.
 
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I don't know how to nicely respond, but you basically lost all credibility when you said "charge for the game".

Funimation would be here quicker than flies on shit with a C&D order and every lawyer they could find.
 
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If I may put in my two cents:

1) What if you put the option on your website so that people could donate to your efforts. Then you wouldn't be selling anything.

2) As much as I would like to claim the OP is an ignorant jackass, I have to concede, that "not being paid", can only get you so far. All of VLC was and is being written and maintained by people who work for free. After 12 years of development, one has to wonder if the devs haven't simply lost interest. I know I would lose interest if I worked on the same damn thing for 12 years. And that's fine. You're allowed to get bored of working on the same thing.

But, if you've lost interest, why not just Open-Source it? You could even release it under an Open-Source license that permits anyone to develop it and make changes, on the grounds that all those changes get sent back to you, so you can choose to build it into your program. Awesome games like Nexuiz have been written using this model.

3.
But still the most work ATM goes in to coding i suppose. Optimization of the engine and so forth.
I've heard that word thrown around quite a lot. Optimizing. But, forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought this mod was built on Half Life 1. Which had according to wikipedia minimum requirements of: 133 MHz processor, and 24 MB RAM. SERIOUSLY!? Does anyone think that half-life is even remotely capable of straining modern computers. Most of my friends which are still playing LAN games, have a Core i7. And I live in a third world country.

4. If you said, "We're going to release it on October 2043", we would all be like "Cool, we'll check back on the website every decade or so.". But, at the moment, it feels as though the developers are being extremely disrespectful. All we get is this, "It's coming. We promise it's coming. Sooon." With vague reports every few months or so, with no indication of if the game is 30%, or 50% or 90% done. We know that there is no such thing as a free lunch, and we know that there are a lot of difficulties in coding, and we're prepared to wait as long as necessary.

But, at the moment, it just feels as though we're being handled by a bunch of politicians: Nothing but vague promises, shifty answers, and no idea of what's really happening. I've been under the impression the game is 2 or three months away ever since the Final Open Beta.
 
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If I may put in my two cents:

1) What if you put the option on your website so that people could donate to your efforts. Then you wouldn't be selling anything.
FUNimation would still see it as "people give money to people who have no rights to DBZ" and thus instantly shut down ESF.

forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought this mod was built on Half Life 1. Which had according to wikipedia minimum requirements of: 133 MHz processor, and 24 MB RAM. SERIOUSLY!? Does anyone think that half-life is even remotely capable of straining modern computers. Most of my friends which are still playing LAN games, have a Core i7. And I live in a third world country.
It's probably more about optimizing the things the coders ADDED to the engine. It's been said over and over that the requirements for ESF are much larger than HL's. MUCH larger.
 
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Uhm @StephanG the original HL1 had those requirements. Because it also had a software renderer. ESF uses OpenGL and all those stuff like particle calculations, player physics and gamelogic aswell as culling processing everything for the renderer stresses a CPU quite well. And optimizing means, getting everything to run on a full server with 60+fps on most computers. And that is not an easy task with HL code still running in the core
 
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for real......i can only say SVN both sides would be happy........those who dont wanna play a unfinished version dont play it and those who wanna play it can do it..........

i play also zeq and well the game has potential but its not really a fighting based game.......but its still a eyecandy.....after 2 weeks or something is everytime a little update and even if u dont see the change in the first 10mins the guys are still happy that they see that the work continues! and that way takes away one of the biggest fears of all: that the game gets quit without a release after 10 years.
in zeq you can also not really fight right now..........the beam struggles suck........but its fun to fly around and to some movies with it or rpg a bit or just enjoy the effects which are in.

the same would sure count for esf. i surely understand that its a hell of extra work to make a stable beta version for us to play...........SO DONT DO IT AT ALL.......make a SVN and let us pls download what u guys got! that also comes with the possibility that the community can help u on developing....and sure the one thing that we all want is a great game.i bet u guys got something like a latest build somewhere.......would it be really too bad when we get access to that? i know its a free game and we are all thankfull that u let us get it some day. but pls consider it......there is NO need for a stable version. even if the game crashes some times or everytime when i do a specific attack...90% of the people give a shit about that! and to those who dont play it then.....well DONT play it then! pls guys......consider it.......its been a long time without release ....you dont wanna keep it or do you?^^
 
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Optimising is not important? Ever played EVM ?

Also DS, what happened with BFP? I remember the mod but not why it died.
 
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BFP had some addons......and there are some versions......but its all crap

and yes i played evm so what? also played evossj4 and that other which i cant remember the name><
 
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Optimising is not important? Ever played EVM ?

Also DS, what happened with BFP? I remember the mod but not why it died.

Bid For Power tried to charge for their game. They had a lawsuit pretty much put up against them for charging for it. They ended up having to get rid of any characters dealing with DBZ and thus characters like this were made.


 

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I seems to remember BFP having fixed beams. :O
 
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I could be wrong, but I'm not sure I believe that story about BFP being threatened by Funimation.

Yes, they changed the game by replacing every DBZ character with their own original creations. They then went on to attempt to build BFP 2, a game which never got off the ground. That game would have featured all the new characters added in BFP 1. I think the entire thing was a ploy to get popularity, awareness, and hype for their next project, BFP 2.

They went on to release BFP Final, which is basically BFP 1, but with all DBZ characters. Why would they do that if they were afraid of being sued? ESF has never heard a peep from funimation, as far as I'm aware.

http://bfpfinal.quakeunity.com/
 
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BFP had some addons......and there are some versions......but its all crap

and yes i played evm so what? also played evossj4 and that other which i cant remember the name><
.... Didnt you notice what kind of ping everyone had on a server with 5+ people ? (EVM)
 
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.... Didnt you notice what kind of ping everyone had on a server with 5+ people ? (EVM)
Here is betting he only played bots.
 
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actualy, we constantly do our portion of work, it could be faster, but we reached a point where we don't add new stuff, and concentrate on the final release. The point where we stoped adding new stuff and concentrated on the more important stuff was reached long ago, right now i can load the game, choose from a variety of finished maps, choose from a variety of finished/polished models, with houndreds of individual animations ( all hail DT ) and play for several hours
using finished meele , beams, transformations etc, and have all of that rendered with a a stunning new lighting/texture/audio/composition and fx quality which we upgraded soooo much, and puted sooo much work on. it's just, the main "core" element behind the whole game works, we just don't have all the content, and we don't wanna do like 2 or 3 releases, with new models and maps, we wanna prepare a solid release. We could release the game with a few fine maps and models of quality you won't even find in the actual ps3 games, all that works, we show that in a few videos. It's just a matter of content, which we want to gather as much as possible for 1 big release, i don't know a release date, no one on the team knows, but for me, christmass 2012 is possible : )
 

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