The Truth--

[DaRkOwNs]

If there is a supreme being, it does not have an opposite, because it is everything and it is everywhere. Your example of matter and anti-matter represents a duality. Once more, you're subjecting a supreme being to the laws of the Universe. Don't. If it exists, it does not follow the rules its imposed on this Universe. That's why it's a supreme being. I'll post this again since I edited my last post too late.

although he may not exist in our laws, theres no reason he couldnt have laws of his own.

i really dont think of gods power/control as infinite. god could easily be only a supreme being in our eyes, just because of our lack of understanding. similar to how we'd be a supreme being too ants. we can create worlds for them, burn them, maime them, pretty much anything.

that being said, if i chose to believe that god exists, i would also choose to believe god isnt an all powerful being. it makes far more sense to think that theres something above god that we cant see.

Maybe I don't understand you. But what I mean is. Where does it state the Universe is finite and God created it? Where does it state that the universe can't be infinite?

because the universe had a start if it was created. if it has a beginning it has too have an end. if it always existed, then it wasnt created. it just existed.

 

[Zeonix]

Maybe I don't understand you. But what I mean is. Where does it state the Universe is finite and God created it? Where does it state that the universe can't be infinite?

Where does what state?

I'm telling you what we already know through our observations. The Universe isn't infinite. Nothing that dies and is reborn can be considered infinite. Nothing that grows or shrinks can be considered infinite. That just isn't what the word infinite means. It isn't that you dont understand me. You just dont understand the term infinite, because you think of it in terms of time, despite infinity existing outside of time. Don't get me wrong. I'm not going to pretend to understand it, either.

A supreme being would not be a supreme being if it was not responsible for all that is. If it was the God of the Bible, I'd basically consider him to be a high level sentient creature that, through technological or some other means was able to do amazing things. That isn't what The All of the Kybalion, nor what I believe a supreme being to be is or should be.

 

[Sicron]

Ah like that! You're stating the universe is 'infinite'. Infinite not meaning unending but really being...infinite for lack of a better term? I was indeed speaking of infinite in existence. And when thinking about existence, the universe can be infinite. Ah...this is seriously giving me a headache. This is simply something we can't even understand or comprehend. It's like trying to think of paradoxes and stuff. Time and Infinity are both one hell of a pain in the ass.

 

[Zeonix]

Ah like that! You're stating the universe is 'infinite'. Infinite not meaning unending but really being...infinite for lack of a better term? I was indeed speaking of infinite in existence. And when thinking about existence, the universe can be infinite. Ah...this is seriously giving me a headache. This is simply something we can't even understand or comprehend. It's like trying to think of paradoxes and stuff. Time and Infinity are both one hell of a pain in the ass.

Exactly!

That's why the term infinitely old isn't on the money. Old indicates time, and if something is infinite, it is not bound by time. It simply is. I'm not saying the Universe actually is infinite, because I simply don't know, but it's a possibility.

But if it's true, does that mean all Universes are infinite in nature, and merely go through cycles, creating and destroying life over and over and over again? Infinite Universes (in terms of numbers) that are infinite in nature (in terms of simply existing)? How many sentient life forms have been destroyed? Have any of them escaped the inevitable? Is there a way for us to escape the cycle or to rise above it?

 

[DaRkOwNs]

Exactly!

That's why the term infinitely old isn't on the money. Old indicates time, and if something is infinite, it is not bound by time. It simply is. I'm not saying the Universe actually is infinite, because I simply don't know, but it's a possibility.

But if it's true, does that mean all Universes are infinite in nature, and merely go through cycles, creating and destroying life over and over and over again? Infinite Universes (in terms of numbers) that are infinite in nature (in terms of simply existing)? How many sentient life forms have been destroyed? Have any of them escaped the inevitable? Is there a way for us to escape the cycle or to rise above it?

if were to escape, we would have to exist in a form not bound by laws or mechanics. we cant be made of matter.

 

[Zeonix]

if were to escape, we would have to exist in a form not bound by laws or mechanics. we cant be made of matter.

For argument's sake, explain why.

 

[Sicron]

You'd have to be made of something we at least do not know and have yet to encounter. Seeing as all we know is matter.

 

[Zeonix]

You'd have to be made of something we at least do not know and have yet to encounter. Seeing as all we know is matter.

And all matter is condensed energy and under the right circumstances energy can be converted into matter and vice versa. But we're all assuming we know everything there is to know about the Universe. There are laws, yes, but whose to say those laws can't be bent and manipulated?

Tell me. Do you think that's air you're breathing?

 

[Punishing]

I think Bible has mentioned that God is anywhere. Therefore if we would take in account what the Bible says it makes sense to think that he has existed for an infinite amount of time , is omnipresent and omniscient.

If God is infinite and has created the Universe it doesn't mean the Universe itself has to be infinite because God who is infinite created it.

It's just like saying my father lived 60 years , because I'm his son I will also live 60 years and that's complete nonsense.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

And all matter is condensed energy and under the right circumstances energy can be converted into matter and vice versa. But we're all assuming we know everything there is to know about the Universe. There are laws, yes, but whose to say those laws can't be bent and manipulated?

Tell me. Do you think that's air you're breathing?

laws can be bent, but they cant be broken as long as were bound by them. but, for all we know you pass into another universe when you die.

however, matter and energy needs the dimensions to exist. if we didnt exist in dimensions, then we could leave the universe. but, somehow, i dont think thats possible.

and assumptions are all we have. i can only assume that matter and energy exist in the 4 dimensions, as well as the other 7 or 8. without assumptions theres no debate and i'd be bored.

 

[Zeonix]

laws can be bent, but they cant be broken as long as were bound by them. but, for all we know you pass into another universe when you die.

however, matter and energy needs the dimensions to exist. if we didnt exist in dimensions, then we could leave the universe. but, somehow, i dont think thats possible.

and assumptions are all we have. i can only assume that matter and energy exist in the 4 dimensions, as well as the other 7 or 8. without assumptions theres no debate and i'd be bored.

You're only bound by them as long as you're within the Universe. We know wormholes exist, allowing a person to travel from point a to point be without covering the distance between the two. Who's to say there isn't another such loophole that would allow inter-universal travel? What if we were only capable of perceiving and traveling to Universes that are similar to our own, canceling out the entire "We can't go there because." argument?

There are far more variables out there that need to be considered before we say we can't do something.

 

[kam!]

Our universe may just be a marble in a 32 dimensional space.

Time and space are man-made concepts. Stating that either of them is finite has no meaning for the universe.

 

[Zeonix]

Our universe may just be a marble in a 32 dimensional space.

Time and space are man-made concepts. Stating that either of them is finite has no meaning for the universe.

As of 04, which means it's larger now: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mystery_monday_040524.html

03: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/age_universe_030103.html

If it can be measured, I can't help but think of it as being finite. This doesn't apply to what came before the big bang and what will come after the end of the Universe as we know it, but it applies to the Universe as it exists now. But as I said before, we're only viewing the Universe from one angle, so nothing is written in stone just yet.

Edit: Somewhat unrelated, but an interesting video nonetheless:

http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php

 

[Odin]

This brings up the age old question.

"What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make his way home"