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Edit--- so continents that magically fit perfectly together at all the seems when the earth is shrunken is merely a huge cowinkydink and shouldn't be given a 2nd thought, and we should continue to believe the plates do shift in the manner were taught, even tho the earth growing/shrinking seems to be the more logical explanation?
Jinx, I assume you are at least smart enough to realize that is a computer animation, and not a simulation of what would actually happen to the continents if the earth were shrunk.

There's a reason you never see this sort of nonsense in academic journals, it's pseudo science.

McElhinney et al. (1978) used paleomagnetic data to calculate that the radius of the Earth 400 million years ago was 102 ± 2.8% of today's radius.
What's the source? Oh right, an academic journal.
 
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I already debunked the first Neal Adams' video you posted using an academic study.

What was the purpose of posting more?

New estimates of the palaeoradius of the Earth for the past 400 Myr from palaeomagnetic data limit possible expansion to less than 0.8%, sufficient to exclude any current theory of Earth expansion.
But I'm sure Neal Adams DVD and Youtube videos are more reliable.
 
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You debunked it? How so ?
I posted a link to an academic study which proved that the earth's radius has changes less than .8% in the past 400 million years, I may have edited it in after you replied.
 
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we cant exist in a space where there are no laws, because were formed in a space that runs solely on law. same as us not being able to survive without oxygen or water because we evolved using it.

so we cant cheat all the laws at once, which would be required to pass through universe's. all of it is possible, but theres a reason its impossible to see a black holes exact center, the singularity. it would break the laws and destroy physical space. (im sure you know this but for others sake, the singularity is the exact center of a black hole and defies all laws and principles of physics. until recently, when we theorized an energy source blocked it from actual contact from our existence, it was the main reason we thought black holes were not possible.)

"god" could be rationalized as the human paranoia complex. when something bad happens to you, someone else caused it. we may not know what to look for because he may be a spectre born from paranoia. works in reverse too.

both of us question pretty much everything we come across, thats why were intelligent, and, well, argumentative. but if you question everything, where your basis? you cant learn from a hypothesis if you dont have a control test. he wont know what a real answer is if he questions everything.

btw, i have no clue what were debating about anymore. physics, god, or jinx?
You're assuming, of course, that we will never physically change. If you had to sacrifice your body to explore the far reaches of the Universe, would you? Would you send a man made of flesh and blood into the void or would you send someone who was both man and machine? Or something entirely different, but equally resilient? Water and oxygen won't always be required by humanity, so it makes for a poor argument.

I'm not sure where you're going with describing a black hole. A singularity is simply the point at which our equations of general relativity break down, so would it make more sense to say it's impossible to truly understand a black hole or would it make more sense to say general relativity isn't perfect and at this point in time, it does not explain everything that exists? I'm going for the latter due to my belief that given enough time, there isn't a single thing that we can not learn or understand.

I'm not sure how my idea of a supreme being would fit in with this supposed "paranoia" as I neither attribute happy events nor sad events to such a being. I tend to think that if a being such as God exists, it'd be completely neutral and/or would have better things to do than screw around with lower sentient life forms.

Questioning the existence of a supreme being of some sort isn't a matter of hard facts and science. It's closer to philosophy than anything else, which is also where I think the concept of a God originated from. What was once philosophy became dogma after being bastardized throughout the ages.

Going back to Jinx's thing, if a supreme being did exist, I would imagine it'd have to be infinite. Why would the creator of the laws of the Universe also be subject to them?

I've pointed this out before, but the Universe is growing. If something grows or shrinks, it must mean it is finite. If the Universe accounts for all space, then would that not mean space is also finite? And as I stated before, we believe time to have existed only after the big bang. This gives time a beginning. If the creation of the Universe created time, then I would think it'd be fair to assume the death of the Universe would also "kill" time, giving time an endpoint. So in that respect, time, too, is finite.

What I'm saying, Jinx, is we view things as having a beginning and an end, because the birth of everything we know of came about through the big bang and will "disappear" once the Universe is no more. On that scale, basically everything in our Universe is finite.

That's our basic understanding of the Universe, anyway. If you think about it, we're only viewing one layer of our Universe at any given time, so we can't state anything for certain (although people will do so anyway, because facts never change o.0).

But really, stop with the videos. They aren't helping anyone.

@ Sicron: I'm not sure how the two are mutually exclusive. One being infinite does not automatically carry over to the other. If a supreme being created the Universe, that right there shows his creation to be finite in nature. Because the Universe, itself, is finite, everything within this Universe must also be finite, because nothing can rise higher than its source, if you will.
 
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Going back to Jinx's thing, if a supreme being did exist, I would imagine it'd have to be infinite. Why would the creator of the laws of the Universe also be subject to them? *agreed*

I've pointed this out before, but the Universe is growing. If something grows or shrinks, it must mean it is finite. If the Universe accounts for all space, then would that not mean space is also finite? And as I stated before, we believe time to have existed only after the big bang. This gives time a beginning. If the creation of the Universe created time, then I would think it'd be fair to assume the death of the Universe would also "kill" time, giving time an endpoint. So in that respect, time, too, is finite. *Agreed*

What I'm saying, Jinx, is we view things as having a beginning and an end, because the birth of everything we know of came about through the big bang and will "disappear" once the Universe is no more. "On that scale, basically everything in our Universe is finite. " .*Agreed*

That's our basic understanding of the Universe, anyway. If you think about it, we're only viewing one layer of our Universe at any given time, so we can't state anything for certain (although people will do so anyway, because facts never change o.0).

@ Sicron: I'm not sure how the two are mutually exclusive. One being infinite does not automatically carry over to the other. If a supreme being created the Universe, that right there shows his creation to be finite in nature. Because the Universe, itself, is finite, everything within this Universe must also be finite, because nothing can rise higher than its source, if you will.
.


There goes my thoughts in a dif light.
 
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You, just like me were born here on Earth and have had our thoughts influenced by our environment. Everything around us appears to have a beginning and an end from what we see.

when you said this



maybe you were thinking from the perspective that everything has a start and finish while asking "who made the creator of God?".... I was just asking why dont you think this way about time =] ?


Edit--- so continents that magically fit perfectly together at all the seems when the earth is shrunken is merely a huge cowinkydink and shouldn't be given a 2nd thought, and we should continue to believe the plates do shift in the manner were taught, even tho the earth growing/shrinking seems to be the more logical explanation?
i guess we can just throw out all that scientific information of plate shifts, glacier movement, and tectonic tremors. yeah, the planet suddenly growing makes alot of sense. even over all that information that proves the continents move of their own accord due too magma flow under the crust and the water it tends too float on.

well, im convinced.

where the hell did this planet growing thing come from?

btw, jinx, have you ever considered the possibility that god ISNT a supreme being? that there are entities far more powerful that god or satan? its highly possible that we only see god as a supreme being because we cant fathom power past "ultimate". for all we know, we are simply playthings for the 2 beings.

if you believe in an infinite, god wouldnt be an end. there would be even more powerful beings that extends into an eternity.
 
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@ Zeo: But that is exactly the problem here; You don't know if the universe is finite or infinite. Just as you don't know if a God exists or not. And a YouTube video doesn't proof that either. I would laugh my ass off if YouTube provided the answer of a question people have been trying to answer for eons. That, and it means Google should've paid a lot more for YouTube when the bough it, because clearly it's worth a lot more than a couple of billion dollars. YouTube: Your answer to everything.

In any case, just because the universe shrinks and expands doesn't have to mean it's finite. When the universe has expanded so much that gravity makes everything collapse again (aka, the Big Crunch) everything gets crammed into a [near] infinite small space. Pressure gets so high, the it bangs out of eachother again (Big Bang) untill it has expanded for billions of years just to collapse again into an infinite small space. This is one of the theories of an infinitely old universe.
 
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I wish the senate would simply counter all arguments with youtube videos.
 
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Jinx, I assume you are at least smart enough to realize that is a computer animation, and not a simulation of what would actually happen to the continents if the earth were shrunk.

There's a reason you never see this sort of nonsense in academic journals, it's pseudo science.



What's the source? Oh right, an academic journal.
Maybe they should tell us how they came to that conclusion.. it's very possible that its not even reliable considering things have "changing growth rates"
 
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@ Zeo: But that is exactly the problem here; You don't know if the universe is finite or infinite. Just as you don't know if a God exists or not. And a YouTube video doesn't proof that either. I would laugh my ass off if YouTube provided the answer of a question people have been trying to answer for eons. That, and it means Google should've paid a lot more for YouTube when the bough it, because clearly it's worth a lot more than a couple of billion dollars. YouTube: Your answer to everything.
If something has a beginning and an end, it is finite. Even if it only has a beginning, it is finite. In order for something to be infinite, it must have always continuously existed. It must never have not been. The Universe began with the Big Bang and will end one way or another, so how can you state that we don't know the Universe is finite? Even in terms of size, the Universe is growing. If you have infinite space, you do not grow or shrink. You simply are.

None of the above is from youtube videos but from the information we've gathered over the last umpteen years. You can't group a God in with what we know about the Universe, because when it comes down to it, we simply don't know what constitutes a supreme being in the first place. We don't know what to look for, and because we don't know what to look for, we don't know how to detect it. For all we know, everything is part of the supreme being, including us. Does that mean we're Gods? No more than a single cell taken from your body is you.

I wouldn't call a Universe that dies and is reborn over and over infinite. One could say we exist in a reincarnation of a much older Universe, but our Universe isn't the same as the last, or the one before it, or the one before that, etc. If I clone myself from my own genetic material and transplant my brain (what would a Universal brain be?) over and over again for all time, I'm not immortal and I'm not infinite in nature.
 
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Maybe they should tell us how they came to that conclusion.. it's very possible that its not even reliable considering things have "changing growth rates"
You do understand why they're called "peer-reviewed" journals, right?

It's plenty more reliable than someone's opinions on Youtube Jinx.
 
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btw, jinx, have you ever considered the possibility that god ISNT a supreme being? that there are entities far more powerful that god or satan? its highly possible that we only see god as a supreme being because we cant fathom power past "ultimate". for all we know, we are simply playthings for the 2 beings.

if you believe in an infinite, god wouldnt be an end. there would be even more powerful beings that extends into an eternity.
to many people posting too fast.

also, we speak of god, but why isnt satan ever discussed? i recall him being a supreme being as well.
 
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to many people posting too fast.

also, we speak of god, but why isnt satan ever discussed? i recall him being a supreme being as well.
You've been heavily influenced by Christianity. I am not so unfortunate. That's why.

As for the eternity bit:

The All said:
The All must be all that really is. Nothing must exist outside of The All, otherwise it would not be The All. The All must be infinite for there is nothing to define, confine, limit, bound or restrict it. It must be infinite in time--it must have always continuously existed, for there is nothing else to have ever created it. It must be infinite in space. It must be everywhere, for there is no place outside of The All. It can not be otherwise than continuous in space without break, cessation, separation or interruption for there is nothing to break, separate or interrupt its continuity. It must be infinite in power for there is nothing to limit, restrict, restrain, confine, disturb or condition it. It is subject to no other power, for there is no other power.
There's a ****load more, but I'm not typing all of it. Just look up the Kybalion and read the chapter on The All. You don't have to believe any of it, but it's an interesting take on what a supreme being should be, or if you're already a believer in a supreme being, is.
 
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If something has a beginning and an end, it is finite. Even if it only has a beginning, it is finite. In order for something to be infinite, it must have always continuously existed. It must never have not been. The Universe began with the Big Bang and will end one way or another, so how can you state that we don't know the Universe is finite? Even in terms of size, the Universe is growing. If you have infinite space, you do not grow or shrink. You simply are.

None of the above is from youtube videos but from the information we've gathered over the last umpteen years. You can't group a God in with what we know about the Universe, because when it comes down to it, we simply don't know what constitutes a supreme being in the first place. We don't know what to look for, and because we don't know what to look for, we don't know how to detect it. For all we know, everything is part of the supreme being, including us. Does that mean we're Gods? No more than a single cell taken from your body is you.
I'm not talking about infinite space, I am talking about infinite time. In a way that the universe has always existed and always will exist. When the Big Crunch happens, the universe gets infinitly small, but still exists. It gets so small that at a point, the pressure and heat is so high it explodes into a Big Bang. Energy(heat) gets converted into matter again and expands. Untill at some point it collapses again.

It's true that I can't group God with the universe, we know little to nothing about it. But there is also reason enough to do group him with the universe. Because in the end, we don't know how either of them got to be and how they will be. We don't know for 100% if God has existed, exists and will exists. Neither do we know if the Universe has existed for an infinite amount of time and will exist for an infinite amount of time. We know only that it exists.

You've been heavily influenced by Christianity. I am not so unfortunate. That's why.
Are we talking about Godlike supreme beings in this thread, God or Christianity. Because if it is the former. Then there is no reason to believe an evil Godlike supreme being exists as well. Some people state that for every negative there is a positive. Even science states that, although in a slightly different way. Matter and Anti-matter.
 
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I'm not talking about infinite space, I am talking about infinite time. In a way that the universe has always existed and always will exist. When the Big Crunch happens, the universe gets infinitly small, but still exists. It gets so small that at a point, the pressure and heat is so high it explodes into a Big Bang. Energy(heat) gets converted into matter again and expands. Untill at some point it collapses again.

It's true that I can't group God with the universe, we know little to nothing about it. But there is also reason enough to do group him with the universe. Because in the end, we don't know how either of them got to be and how they will be. We don't know for 100% if God has existed, exists and will exists. Neither do we know if the Universe has existed for an infinite amount of time and will exist for an infinite amount of time. We know only that it exists.



Are we talking about Godlike supreme beings in this thread, God or Christianity. Because if it is the former. Then there is no reason to believe an evil Godlike supreme being exists as well. Some people state that for every negative there is a positive. Even science states that, although in a slightly different way. Matter and Anti-matter.
You don't seem to understand. Time, as it exists today, did not exist before the Big Bang. You have to throw out the concept of time when talking about what came "before". That is infinity. No time. No beginning, no end. It always was and always will be. You're mistaking infinity for infinite time, which aren't the same.

If a supreme being does exist, it created the Universe, and thus is not subject to the laws of the Universe. You have to think beyond the laws of the Universe, which is all but impossible for most because we are subject to each of them. It's hard for us to comprehend a place without any of these laws, which is why we don't really understand infinity.

If there is a supreme being, it does not have an opposite, because it is everything and it is everywhere. Your example of matter and anti-matter represents a duality. Once more, you're subjecting a supreme being to the laws of the Universe. Don't. If it exists, it does not follow the rules its imposed on this Universe. That's why it's a supreme being. I'll post this again since I edited my last post too late.

The All said:
The All must be all that really is. Nothing must exist outside of The All, otherwise it would not be The All. The All must be infinite for there is nothing to define, confine, limit, bound or restrict it. It must be infinite in time--it must have always continuously existed, for there is nothing else to have ever created it. It must be infinite in space. It must be everywhere, for there is no place outside of The All. It can not be otherwise than continuous in space without break, cessation, separation or interruption for there is nothing to break, separate or interrupt its continuity. It must be infinite in power for there is nothing to limit, restrict, restrain, confine, disturb or condition it. It is subject to no other power, for there is no other power.
 
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Maybe I don't understand you. But what I mean is. Where does it state the Universe is finite and God created it? Where does it state that the universe can't be infinite?
 

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