The Bible may not be what many people think it is?

[Rocky]

I don't see how these posts relate to the bible...

I don't see how a thread based on how the bible is bull**** is going to end peacefully. I for one am offended at the notion that my religion is based on a fallacy.

 

[Synth]

Well, I myself believe the bible has been edited and republished for certain people's benefits.

I won't go out there and say the bible is "bs", just that there are better versions to read.
-

Also, Jinx... you did a really bad copy&paste job... all your quotes have strange codes in them.

 

[Adaptus]

At the very least, I think that the Bible should not be taken literally.

Certain groups do, and it just leads to bad blood, IMO.

I see it as more of a guidebook to leading a good life, or something-or-other.

 

[Rocky]

I really think the mods are trying to make a point by keeping this thread open by saying they're not going to tolerate the jinx-hate anymore, and that's fine if they wanna do that, but this is not the kind of thread that should stay open. I'm all for religious debate if it's tasteful and understanding, but any person coming onto these boards and says your religion is based on a lie is someone who's basically asking to start a flame war.

I urge the mods to reconsider the life of this thread.

 

[Synth]

I don't see how him not believing should waiver your faith... if anything, it should strengthen it.

 

[Rocky]

It doesn't waiver my faith, its offensive that this topic is allowed to be discussed especially knowing how many non-believers troll this forum and the stuff they're gonna say when given a chance to knock religion in this thread.

 

[-Origin]

I believe.

In you, Rocky.

DOUBLE ICE BACKFIRE

 

[Dzamija]

Here's how I see it. I look at the Bible the same way I look at any other myth. Reading about Theseus and the Labyrinth is the same for me as reading about Christ's crucifiction. Though I must admit, the Bible has some very well written stories in it for the time in which it was written, a time in which nearly barbaric people lived. It inspired me more than once to create my own fictional imaginative work.

But, for someone to believe that the stuff said in there is REAL is something I can't understand, nor will I ever understand, nor do I want to understand.

Now I'm a concrete thinker. I believe that existence is a relative thing, and that something which may exist for us, cannot possibly exist for, say, an ant. That which we process through our five senses, is from our point of view, all existence. That's basically why I don't believe in God. I can't see him, I can't hear him, I can't smell him, I can't touch him, I can't taste him. For me, he doesn't exist. If one day I AM able to identify God by using my five senses, or maybe evolving some new senses with which I am able to consciously percieve a figure such as God, maybe I'd start believing in him.

Of course, there is a very high possibility that there are things completely abstract to our senses, meaning that we aren't able to percieve them. These things, creatures, objects or whatever could very well be right under our noses, and there's nothing we can do about it because we can't percieve of their existence as we are currently. Maybe, through evolution, we will able to gain the means to percieve such currently abstract figures, maybe not, maybe we will be able to percieve some of them, and some of them not.

But if we cannot percieve God, that could also mean he doesn't exist. There is no proof that any living being has ever percieved God. It is very possible that it's just a myth, and I believe it is. I also believe that people are delusional when they try to 'contact' God, through prayer or otherwise. Because if there truly is a God, our voice can't reach him, because if our senses can't percieve him, most likely they can't come into contact with him. Therefore, believing in such a being as God is irrational and a waste of time in my opinion.

The bottom line, Jinx, is that you shouldn't be searching for the truth in the Bible. If it was there, someone would've found it already

 

[Rocky]

Here's how I see it. I look at the Bible the same way I look at any other myth. Reading about Theseus and the Labyrinth is the same for me as reading about Christ's crucifiction. Though I must admit, the Bible has some very well written stories in it for the time in which it was written, a time in which nearly barbaric people lived. It inspired me more than once to create my own fictional imaginative work.

But, for someone to believe that the stuff said in there is REAL is something I can't understand, nor will I ever understand, nor do I want to understand.

Now I'm a concrete thinker. I believe that existence is a relative thing, and that something which may exist for us, cannot possibly exist for, say, an ant. That which we process through our five senses, is from our point of view, all existence. That's basically why I don't believe in God. I can't see him, I can't hear him, I can't smell him, I can't touch him, I can't taste him. For me, he doesn't exist. If one day I AM able to identify God by using my five senses, or maybe evolving some new senses with which I am able to consciously percieve a figure such as God, maybe I'd start believing in him.

Of course, there is a very high possibility that there are things completely abstract to our senses, meaning that we aren't able to percieve them. These things, creatures, objects or whatever could very well be right under our noses, and there's nothing we can do about it because we can't percieve of their existence as we are currently. Maybe, through evolution, we will able to gain the means to percieve such currently abstract figures, maybe not, maybe we will be able to percieve some of them, and some of them not.

But if we cannot percieve God, that could also mean he doesn't exist. There is no proof that any living being has ever percieved God. It is very possible that it's just a myth, and I believe it is. I also believe that people are delusional when they try to 'contact' God, through prayer or otherwise. Because if there truly is a God, our voice can't reach him, because if our senses can't percieve him, most likely they can't come into contact with him. Therefore, believing in such a being as God is irrational and a waste of time in my opinion.

The bottom line, Jinx, is that you shouldn't be searching for the truth in the Bible. If it was there, someone would've found it already

I'm sorry, but that just sounds naieve and/or ignorant to me. First of all, there are many things you can't see, hear, touch, smell or taste, but you accept those things as existing. Air for instance you know its there, you're breathing it in as you read this but you can't exactly sense it. Arguably you can feel the wind across your face, but what about Space, you can't use your senses to know if there is other planets, life forms, or anything at all out there, but do you believe in the existence of other life out there (serious question cause I don't know what you believe)

As for "is god able to perceive us if we can't perceive him" I think that's possibly the worst anti-religion thing I've ever read. God is supposed to be omnipotent so if he does exist and he did create everything there is to create surely he can understand us, and if it was his choice to make us not understand him, there was possibly a reason, not so that he could create and forget. I just don't really know where you're going with that one.

While you think it's delusional to pray, I believe prayer allows us to gain a better understanding of ourselves. When you repent your sins to god, whether or not god is out there and hearing your words is irrelevant, if its you who is truly sorry for whatever it is that you've done, then you've become a better person for it. While I believe that a lot of the actually written down stuff is irrelevant in the 21st century I am a strong believer in "the message is more important than the words." what I mean is it won't be relevant for today's average joe to be jealous of his neighbours goat, it will be relevant for today's average joe to envious of his neighbours ipod, and if you interpret the teachings from a modern day perspective you see that the message is still the same.

If you take away the "corrupt" part of religion, (which in all truth is man who has taken what was good and pure and used it to gain an advantage for his own personal use) religion is a good thing, it gives people hope it times of despair and closure in times of uncertainty. It also in general teaches you to be a good, kind person, even IF the entire thing is fake, how can you say that such a thing is wrong or irrational or a waste of time.

 

[Synth]

But, that aspect has been overshadowed by the fact religion is used as an excuse for bad things.

And I just don't mean holy wars... I mean when people say, "God meant for this to happen to me, even though it doesn't make any sense... "

If you can keep the masses in this apologetic mode... you can walk all over them.

 

[Rocky]

But, that aspect has been overshadowed by the fact religion is used as an excuse for bad things.

And I just don't mean holy wars... I mean when people say, "God meant for this to happen to me, even though it doesn't make any sense... "

If you can keep the masses in this apologetic mode... you can walk all over them.

I guess that falls in the "he works in mysterious ways" category, but in the end it's up to the individual person to decide how religion affects their life. I think in a way TOO much religion can be bad, and I do think there is a breaking point, I know a friend of a friend who wants to remain a virgin till she gets married, constantly quotes bible passages (or phrases more accurately) in her msn name and in general is very involved in her religion (some form of christianity don't ask me which I try my best not to talk to her). In the end it should be you running your own life with religion there to guide you, not religion running your life and thats the end of the story.

For me personally I am quite reform, I don't go to synagogue every week, I do attend on the high holy days and I have been barmitzvah'd. I keep a very reformed type of Kosher (don't eat specific kosher food but refrain from eating non-kosher animals). In the dark parts of my life I have questioned the existence of god and my own faith but I have also felt that its wrong to blame god when life sucks and not mention him when life is good.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this other than to basically say, live your life the way you want to. If you don't believe in god it doesn't hurt me, but what I dislike is the intolerable hatred of religion some people have especially when they only look at the negative parts of religion or essentially those that give the rest of us a bad name. If you're going to synagogue/church/tribal fire/whatever to stop yourself from going to hell, you're going for the wrong reasons, if you're going to achieve a higher understanding of yourself and the things around you or to truly and honestly reflect on your life and its direction and you live your life based on the ideals of religion not the direct literal translations I think you've got the mix right.

 

[Dzamija]

I'm sorry, but that just sounds naieve and/or ignorant to me. First of all, there are many things you can't see, hear, touch, smell or taste, but you accept those things as existing. Air for instance you know its there, you're breathing it in as you read this but you can't exactly sense it. Arguably you can feel the wind across your face, but what about Space, you can't use your senses to know if there is other planets, life forms, or anything at all out there, but do you believe in the existence of other life out there (serious question cause I don't know what you believe)

First of all, you can definitely percieve air with your five senses. Air almost always has a smell. There's always some kind of aerosols in the air today, and if you focus hard enough you'll find that it's always possible to detect some sort of smell. And the wind, we percieve it through our sense of touch, don't we? As for planets, I'm pretty sure that, through the use of a telescope, you can clearly see other planets, so they too can be percieved. I'm not saying that things that we can't percieve don't exist, on the contrary, of course they exist. Lesser beings might not be aware of human existence because they can't percieve humans, but humans are still there. The difference between those lesser beings and a human however, is that we can think, and therefore know that there is a possibility that things we can't percieve, indeed exist.

As for "is god able to perceive us if we can't perceive him" I think that's possibly the worst anti-religion thing I've ever read. God is supposed to be omnipotent so if he does exist and he did create everything there is to create surely he can understand us, and if it was his choice to make us not understand him, there was possibly a reason, not so that he could create and forget. I just don't really know where you're going with that one.

Let me rephrase that. Explain to me, why does God try to understand us? I mean, do we, as higher beings, understand ants or bugs? We experiment on them to learn more about them, and technically through that experimentation we learn how they work. But if God created us, doesn't he already have such knowledge?

While you think it's delusional to pray, I believe prayer allows us to gain a better understanding of ourselves. When you repent your sins to god, whether or not god is out there and hearing your words is irrelevant, if its you who is truly sorry for whatever it is that you've done, then you've become a better person for it.

Actually, praying is a way for people to clean their conscience. Let's say you rape this girl. Then you go to church and pray, repenting your sins to God, while the girl undergoes pyschiatric therapy or whatever else needed to recover from her traumatic experience. You see this girl and say "Meh, I don't give a ****, God forgives me."

Instead of that, if I was really sorry, I'd ask the GIRL for forgiveness, not God.

If you take away the "corrupt" part of religion, (which in all truth is man who has taken what was good and pure and used it to gain an advantage for his own personal use) religion is a good thing, it gives people hope it times of despair and closure in times of uncertainty. It also in general teaches you to be a good, kind person, even IF the entire thing is fake, how can you say that such a thing is wrong or irrational or a waste of time.

Even if you do take away the corrupt part of religion, it still isn't neccesarilly a good thing. It might give people hope, but it also limits the way they think to those thoughts that they, as religious people, consider "sin-free", which in the end, creates ignorance. And ignorance is what is making this world a ****hole for people. The world would be a better place without religion entirely. Hope isn't neccesarilly bound to religion; people are able to find hope in a lot of things.

 

[kam!]

@Jinx

First of, saying the bible is BS is pretty much wrong in the sense you did it.
I mean you didn't show us proof that it's fake or something (which would make it BS),
you just presented your interpretation of the bible. You could've said the common interpretation
is BS, or something like that. But the way you said it, people get offended.

Usually, I'm no defender of religion. I don't think it's wrong to believe in the bible
or to use it as a guide through your life. Personally I don't need that guidiance. But some people do.
What I don't really like are people who take the bible literally, but that's a different story.

Now to your claim that Israel is an actual person:
The old testament is very old. People of that time used many metaphors and pictures, so that people could understand the meaning.
In the quotes you gave and interprated, Isreal is referring to the people of Israel.
God (or The Lord) being married to Isreal is referring to the bond between the people of Isreal and God.
Why marriage? People of that time could easily transfer the responsibilities of a real marriage to that human-god bond.
That whole cheating part refers to people placing things (animals money etc...) above God.
Meaning that they don't regard God as that important as other things.
God divorcing from Isreal simply means that God wanted to part with the people of Isreal, and chose another people as the chosen one's.
But he was forgiving (etc...)


I said earlier that I'm no defender of religion, but I still know a lot of stuff about it, because I was raised rather religiously (catholic).


@Dan
First you said "If you can't percieve it, it doesn't exist", then you said
"As humans we are smart enough to know that certain things exist, even if we can't percieve them".
Quite contradicting ^^.
Saying religion is irrational and a waste of time is pretty harsh.
You have to see that the important part isn't if it's real or not, but what it tries to teach.
Saying religions cause wars and suffering is also not true. Almost all of the cases where this has happened were caused by abuse of
power/information, much like the muslim extremists we see today.
The bible and the other holy books may be nothing more than a collection of fairy tales, but these tales contain guidelines
on how you can live your life.

phew long post >.<

 

[Rocky]

I'm sorry, but that just sounds naieve and/or ignorant to me. First of all, there are many things you can't see, hear, touch, smell or taste, but you accept those things as existing. Air for instance you know its there, you're breathing it in as you read this but you can't exactly sense it. Arguably you can feel the wind across your face, but what about Space, you can't use your senses to know if there is other planets, life forms, or anything at all out there, but do you believe in the existence of other life out there (serious question cause I don't know what you believe)

Interesting you dodged that last bit in bold. Do you believe in life on other planets? Even if you can't "sense" them.

I'm not saying that things that we can't percieve don't exist, on the contrary, of course they exist. Lesser beings might not be aware of human existence because they can't percieve humans, but humans are still there. The difference between those lesser beings and a human however, is that we can think, and therefore know that there is a possibility that things we can't percieve, indeed exist.

On the contrary you did implicitly say that if you can't perceive god with your senses then he can't exist.

Let me rephrase that. Explain to me, why does God try to understand us? I mean, do we, as higher beings, understand ants or bugs? We experiment on them to learn more about them, and technically through that experimentation we learn how they work. But if God created us, doesn't he already have such knowledge?

I like to think first of all, that humans are very complex creatures, that despite being created by god (if this is true) we still can behave unexpectedly, just like a scientist experimenting in a lab can have his subject behave abnormally, so too can humans go and do something beyond the norm. Not that I believe god is an evil genius working in a laboratory and we're his rats, it's just an example.

Actually, praying is a way for people to clean their conscience. Let's say you rape this girl. Then you go to church and pray, repenting your sins to God, while the girl undergoes pyschiatric therapy or whatever else needed to recover from her traumatic experience. You see this girl and say "Meh, I don't give a ****, God forgives me."

Instead of that, if I was really sorry, I'd ask the GIRL for forgiveness, not God.

I agree with you on this point, however rape is a pretty extreme case, when I'm talking about repentance for a crime, I don't mean that a criminal guilty of a vicious crime such as rape should be cleansed of all sin just cause he prayed to god, the ****er deserves to rot in a cell and be raped himself by a large fellow named Barry. I'm talking small things, like (if you're jewish) eating something non-kosher or working on the sabbath. Anyway I think your example is quite far on the extreme end, and I sincerely doubt most rapists would attend church to repent their sins.

Even if you do take away the corrupt part of religion, it still isn't neccesarilly a good thing. It might give people hope, but it also limits the way they think to those thoughts that they, as religious people, consider "sin-free", which in the end, creates ignorance. And ignorance is what is making this world a ****hole for people. The world would be a better place without religion entirely. Hope isn't neccesarilly bound to religion; people are able to find hope in a lot of things.

While I agree taking religion to an extreme is a bad thing (I've detailed some thoughts on it in some posts above which I hope you read before replying) aside from "believing too much" what is so really bad about it? You say it's not neccessarily a good thing, what's "not good" about it. I know I'm asking a lot considering I'm saying to forget the "corrupt" and the "too far" but really those two things are problems created by man, not by religion itself. Religion in the end is stories to help guide ones life.

If you as an individual take what you find relevant from the writings and/or adapt what is out of date to something modern and useful then you can become a better person, rather than just writing the whole thing off because a few bad apples believe so deeply in the religion it makes them morons, or some douchebag invents a holy war against the infidels so he can manipulate the masses. Those are bad things and I won't defend that part of religion if you even wanna call that a part of religion and not mankinds stupidity/ignorance/lust for power.

I truly believe that religion as a free standing component means only to do good, it's what one does with it that can turn it the other way.

 

[Dzamija]

Interesting you dodged that last bit in bold. Do you believe in life on other planets? Even if you can't "sense" them.

Of course I do. Why should humans be the only ones out there, when there are countless galaxies, and countless more solar systems? Surely, among some of them, there is a place that's inhabitable by intellegent life. And I didn't say that whatever I can't percieve through my five senses doesn't exist. I can't sense you right now, because you're in Australia, on another part of the world. I'm not near enough to percieve you, it could be the same with aliens. It's possible that we are able of percieving aliens as we are now, just that we didn't get the chance.

On the contrary you did implicitly say that if you can't perceive god with your senses then he can't exist.

See, that's the difference between God and aliens. God is supposed to be right here, where we can reach out to him, not on some distant planet in a distant part of the universe. Yet still, I can't percieve him. Neither can you, you just believe in him. Aliens, however, could be very well percievable, but we didn't get a chance to percieve them, yet.

I like to think first of all, that humans are very complex creatures, that despite being created by god (if this is true) we still can behave unexpectedly, just like a scientist experimenting in a lab can have his subject behave abnormally, so too can humans go and do something beyond the norm. Not that I believe god is an evil genius working in a laboratory and we're his rats, it's just an example.

If that's the case, why doesn't God use his omnipotency to stop all the evil and killing in the world? Are you saying he's just letting people kill themselves? That's called apathy.

I mean, if God created man by his own image, isn't man supposed to be a good, selfless, empathetic creature? Obviously something went wrong, which could be considered as you put it "doing something beyond the norm" (the norm being man created by God's image) so why doesn't God do something about it, even though he's supposed to be hearing the voices of so many people praying for world peace and an end to killing? I don't understand that bit.

I agree with you on this point, however rape is a pretty extreme case, when I'm talking about repentance for a crime, I don't mean that a criminal guilty of a vicious crime such as rape should be cleansed of all sin just cause he prayed to god, the ****er deserves to rot in a cell and be raped himself by a large fellow named Barry. I'm talking small things, like (if you're jewish) eating something non-kosher or working on the sabbath. Anyway I think your example is quite far on the extreme end, and I sincerely doubt most rapists would attend church to repent their sins.

The thing is that some people actually do that. They might not even be bad people. They rape some girl, maybe because they emotionally snapped, or just can't control their hormones, or whatever else reason. After that, they go to church, and try to repent for their sins. Even if they do feel sorry and God forgives them, I think that's not enough. He still needs the forgiveness of that particular girl he raped.

I truly believe that religion as a free standing component means only to do good, it's what one does with it that can turn it the other way.

I agree that religion could and should be a good thing, and only a good thing. However, that's not the case. Not only religion, there's a lot of things that operate just like that; meant to do good but do quite the opposite, since they're in the wrong hands.

 

[Avenger]

In an ideal world, there would be no religions - only ideas. A religion is inherently a bad thing, as it is something that stays the same for a long period of time, and is incredibly difficult to change. An idea however, is pliable, yet firm.

 

[Rocky]

Last post tonight, hope you enjoy!

Of course I do. Why should humans be the only ones out there, when there are countless galaxies, and countless more solar systems? Surely, among some of them, there is a place that's inhabitable by intellegent life. And I didn't say that whatever I can't percieve through my five senses doesn't exist. I can't sense you right now, because you're in Australia, on another part of the world. I'm not near enough to percieve you, it could be the same with aliens. It's possible that we are able of percieving aliens as we are now, just that we didn't get the chance.

See, that's the difference between God and aliens. God is supposed to be right here, where we can reach out to him, not on some distant planet in a distant part of the universe. Yet still, I can't percieve him. Neither can you, you just believe in him. Aliens, however, could be very well percievable, but we didn't get a chance to percieve them, yet.

I'm sorry, I might be stupid but I don't see the difference. You can't see, touch, smell, hear or taste me over here in Australia so how are you able to sense me, in actual fact it should be the opposite, you can perceive me because I post tangible words on this forum but surely you can't sense me?

On the same note, Aliens could be right here in front of us, but since you can't sense them do they exist? For all we know god could be an alien (just throwing it out there) from a complete reform liberal point of view we don't know what god is, so after throwing that out there how does that change (if at all) your view? What's the difference in your belief of aliens, and my belief in god? You can't see your aliens, you perceive that they exist based on your judgement that the universe is huge and there must be some similar existence somewhere out there. I perceive that it is possible this massive universe didn't just pop out of nowhere and that something sparked it, i.e. god. I'm sure you'll come up with some differences between our beliefs, but when you really think about it, they're quite similar.

If that's the case, why doesn't God use his omnipotency to stop all the evil and killing in the world? Are you saying he's just letting people kill themselves? That's called apathy.

I mean, if God created man by his own image, isn't man supposed to be a good, selfless, empathetic creature? Obviously something went wrong, which could be considered as you put it "doing something beyond the norm" (the norm being man created by God's image) so why doesn't God do something about it, even though he's supposed to be hearing the voices of so many people praying for world peace and an end to killing? I don't understand that bit.

I like to think that god gave man the gift of choice, possibly not something from any written text, something I've come up with in my 21 years of existence (as a subnote this "ideal" is something I think reinforces my opinion on what religion should be, something you come up with yourself that is based on a number of sources including religion). You choose if you want to believe or be a murderer or a con-artist or whatever, and maybe these "bad people" will be punished, maybe god doesn't exist and they're getting the best out of it by killing, raping, pillaging and having a good time doing it. Who really knows?

The thing is that some people actually do that. They might not even be bad people. They rape some girl, maybe because they emotionally snapped, or just can't control their hormones, or whatever else reason. After that, they go to church, and try to repent for their sins. Even if they do feel sorry and God forgives them, I think that's not enough. He still needs the forgiveness of that particular girl he raped.

Here I think you've gotten it wrong, my direct religious knowledge is I'll admit very rusty but I vaguely recall something that requires a person to ask for forgiveness not just from god but the person they've wronged (at least under jewish law, not sure about the others especially catholicism which has a confession box somebody could help by clarifying) and while some people might do this, doesn't mean it's right, or it's ok and we should all give them some pie to celebrate. I agree with you that asking for forgiveness from god alone is not enough, but it goes back to my underlying point that directly following religion and basing your whole life on it is not the answer, use it as a guideline not an instruction manual.

I agree that religion could and should be a good thing, and only a good thing. However, that's not the case. Not only religion, there's a lot of things that operate just like that; meant to do good but do quite the opposite, since they're in the wrong hands.

But once again, you can't hate religion because some people have corrupted it. It's like hating all muslims because a couple bad eggs are terrorists, or hating the child of a murderer because the father is a murderer. That if you ask me is what's wrong with the world, not ignorance, but stereotyping, I'm guilty of it too I find it hard to trust and/or like muslim people, so are you as you stereotype all albanians as being evil and whatever (and I don't mean to sidetrack the thread if at all possible take that as an example and not an excuse to bring that stuff into this thread).

***

In an ideal world, there would be no religions - only ideas. A religion is inherently a bad thing, as it is something that stays the same for a long period of time, and is incredibly difficult to change. An idea however, is pliable, yet firm.

Did you ninja that from Dogma? Cause I quite vividly remember that being similar to one of the last lines in the film said by Rufus (Chris Rock) before returning to heaven.

 

[Avenger]

I got some of it from there, but I did watch that film a few years back (I think I was nine or ten). That's my belief anyway. If your "idea" doesn't decide to kill all other ideas, or make things worse, then it's probably not a bad idea.

 

[SailorAlea]

I think you're focusing too much on the whole "perception via senses" argument. Note that I'm arguing as an agnostic; I have no vested interest in any specific outcome, though I think the universe would be a happier place if an afterlife awaited us all.

Dzamija is saying that he prefers to think about the physical; what we can't observe with our senses is irrelevant, because it can't be proven. Your example with aliens doesn't really apply, because it's not that they're in some other kind of dimension or plane of existence--in all likelihood, alien life exists somewhere else in the universe, and if we knew where to look, could observe them with our senses.

Supernatural powers like the singular Judeo-Christian God, though, have given no proof for their existence than the claims of individual people to have seen or experienced it--much like people claim to have seen Ghosts or that invisible people tell them to murder cats.

Not everything has to be physical to be "real," though. For instance--can you see, smell, taste, feel or hear the number 3? You can see the pixels making it up on the screen or the ink which writes it. But that's not "3" you're observing. You're seeing a symbol which represents a mathematical concept.

The language of mathematics allows us to express logical, unbiased truths that are as "real" as the universe allows--unlike the laws of physics, the laws of mathematics can't be broken. Physics (through the language of mathematics) has allowed us to discover things like singularities (black holes), and proceed to observe them through knowing what to look for.

In the case of religion, though; I've stated my opinion before. I believe that the majority of the current popular religions were created out of convenience in manipulating the masses in to working themselves to death, wanting to ignorantly explain seemingly-unexplainable phenomena, or gullible people being mislead by the ravings of people suffering from mental impairments in a day when mental health was very misunderstood.

In the middle ages, religion and power were inextricably bound together. Monarchs were legitimized through God--they were "chosen" by God, and would have you believe it was a responsibility rather than a priviledge they bestowed upon themselves. In exchange for your extreme hardship in toiling away for your master's benefit was a serf or peasant, you were promised a glorious life in paradise as long as you didn't steal, kill, or otherwise disrupt the profitable social order for the upper classes.

That's a good example of the abuse of religion. However, these aren't examples of individual monarchs or people abusing it. It's system-wide. The Catholic Church is especially guilty of this. "What would they have to gain?" The Church had armies, commanded the nation of Spain and formerly England, and when the King of England established the new Church and broke from Catholicism, the two warred repeatedly.

Numerous atrocities have been committed in the name of a God. Especially in the name of a the Judeo-Christian God. Think about it--Christianity in particular! (Only because I know the most about it compared to the others.)

Christianity teaches forgiveness, tolerance, repentence, love, kindness and generosity; but the most vocal and "avid" Christians spout what? Intolerance, hatred, bigotry, scientific ignorance, forcing religion upon others (Missionaries, Inquisitions, Crusades, manipulating legislation) and in general, an "eye for an eye" in terms of dealing with crime, rather than rehabilitation and forgiveness that Christ, which the religion is supposedly based on, taught.

Overall, I don't think Christianity as it exists today, for the average western citizen, has much to do with the "Bible" or the teachings of Jesus Christ. But overall, for the reasons stated above, in people's interests in religion, I don't put much faith in the Bible to begin with.

 

[Ready2GoXtr]

You always post these controversial topics jinx. I seem to recall I asking to keep me in your prayers and you said. "I will"