Opinions on Life/Reality

[Hash]

I never really try and think about reality and how it works. There is simply too many explanations on it, anything could be possible really, we just dont know. There are logical explanations from the knowledge we know. But the reason why the universe exists could be completely different, and completely unlogical, or so we think. Maybe it is logical, but we just can't comprehend, like Hitokiri said about you being an alien creature who is simply dreaming, that sounds preposterous, but maybe its true, or maybe it's something completely true, or maybe what we think is right, we just dont know, and this is the reason why I don't try and think about this often. It just ends in confusion. I just live life as it is, however it works, however it began, is something I will probably never know, but I'm living now, and thats all that matters.

 

[Xenogias]

Groovy how could this be "Proven"?
Cause a Machine said so? I say you'd acctually have
to be there to atleast... "Experiment" with the damn huge ball of fire.

Machines cant always give you the answers they want ya know.
Machines did not create us, we created them, Therefore its filled
with what man beleives is a "Fact".

I just want to beleive that theres is something more valuable than
life out there. Something worth seeing and dieing for...

 

[Death Biscuit]

Much of what we understand about the cosmos is based on math: an abstract concept in itself, but based upon universal principles that cannot be argued.

You're right though. Even with science one has to have "faith," and scientists often contradict oneanother over supposed "facts."

 

[grOOvy]

Groovy how could this be "Proven"?
Cause a Machine said so? I say you'd acctually have
to be there to atleast... "Experiment" with the damn huge ball of fire.

Machines cant always give you the answers they want ya know.
Machines did not create us, we created them, Therefore its filled
with what man beleives is a "Fact".

I just want to beleive that theres is something more valuable than
life out there. Something worth seeing and dieing for...

You had to drag me back in here, didn't you? =]

Firstly: slow down and think about what you're actually typing. It's not as if we just created Arnold Schwarzenegger (sp?) from Terminator, and sent him to the sun to get information...

There is no doubt that humans created the machines and the higher intellect lies with the creator: but why did we actually do so? To do things that can be done more efficiently or perform tasks which humans cannot normally do. A microscope helps us see microscoping objects - does this mean that it is lying? Should we say "Oh no, just because we saw it through the instrument, it's not true - we created the microscope, it must be lying!" ? No, we shouldn't... rather, we should accept the fact that the microscope is just a means to get certain information so that we ourselves can analyze it to formulate or reach certain results. The same way - we have observed the sun and studied it through the centuries using different instruments and 'machines', just to get information. We then apply proven laws of physics and chemistry to what we observed through these machines to reach certain conclusions - that's all. The case of "not believing machines" doesn't even exist in this discussion.

 

[majin goketa]

Why is it that people think scientists are stupid to trust in machines and mathematics. The same principles and technology that create computers and spaceships and nuclear weapons are used to annalyse the Sun. Why would those principles and technology just break down when examining Outer Space.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Damn straight for Majin Goketa.

I just want to comment on that link that Morrone(?) left that supposedly helped proove God existed.

I just want to see a couple things... not in any particular order. One of those things it this: If the Universe had to be created by something why would God have to do it? Why not another universe? Why couldn't there be a chain of universes creating each other or something like that? The other thing I wanted to say is this: If God is an exception to the PSR, and therefor could have existed for eternity, why couldn't the Universe have existed for an eternity? If you are going to break a rule for God, why can't you break that world for existence as a whole? Obviously if science only works for "some things" "some of the time" then it isn't reasonable or logical. I would sooner believe, personally, that the universe was the beginning and will be the end of our perception of reality, than stretch it out further and say that God created it and will destroy it, because that's just one way to explain the Universe, but does not explain what created God. To say he has always existed is a logical flaw. You can't just apply a rule to everything except or one entity.

 

[Morrone]

10 Characters

Damn straight for Majin Goketa.

I just want to comment on that link that Morrone(?) left that supposedly helped proove God existed.

Let it be known I never said this link PROVED God existed. This link logically analyzes the chance of God existing and not even in full. There are also mathematical calculations that suggest a super natural being creating the Universe. This link is only a small piece of the pie.

I just want to see a couple things... not in any particular order. One of those things it this: If the Universe had to be created by something why would God have to do it?

Why not another universe? Why couldn't there be a chain of universes creating each other or something like that?

Mathematics and science is on the verge of proving that only a super natural force could create the Universe and another Universe(no matter how great it could be) would not be SUPERnatural. Also I could answer a question with a question: What would have made that first Universe that could reproduce itself?

The other thing I wanted to say is this: If God is an exception to the PSR, and therefor could have existed for eternity, why couldn't the Universe have existed for an eternity? If you are going to break a rule for God, why can't you break that world for existence as a whole?

This is actually relatively simple logic but may be complex to explain/understand. 1. If God created the Universe then of course he would be exempt from the rules of the Universe in which he created. So just because time exists in the Universe that doesn't mean time exists in God concidering God could have chosen to include tiem into the Univserse. 2. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the Universe to have existed for eternity. Not even remotley intelligent atheists scientists still believe in such a ridiculous theory. For the Universe to have existed for eternity/infinitey would insimuate that eternity/infinitey can be reached, which is IMPOSSIBLE.

Obviously if science only works for "some things" "some of the time" then it isn't reasonable or logical.

If God created the Univsere then why would he follow the same rules as it? It's like saying if man made a baseball he had to follow the same properties as greatly reduced friction and only moving when something as moves it. God is exempt from logic because God is exempt from the Universe. Just like the manufacturer of a baseball is exempt from sharing the same properties of a baseball.

 

[Pain]

absolutly everything is mathamatics. the velocity at which you strike the keys on your keyboard is math. the rate at which your vocal chords vibrate is mathamatics. i mean... everything is. so to learn math, and use math, you can figure out pretty much anything if you have the patience.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Morrone, what the HELL are you going off about saying that math is about to prove that a supernatural force created the universe? Give me one stitch of evidence

 

[Morrone]

Mathematics is not ABOUT, Mathematics is closing in and beginning to prove the chances are higher of a Creator existing then not.

So none of my other points are disputable? Thank you.

Here's some more math/logic: http://saif_w.tripod.com/curious/Misc/created_or_chance.htm

 

[Vegeta420]

if god does exits who created god? adn who created the person that created god? etc. some of these theorys state that there has to be something to create something else or somewhere alogn those lines i aint great with words
if ya ask em the world/universe is just an unexplanable thing adn that no one will ever find out and if their is a heaven you might be able to ask someoen up there like God but then again where is heaven located?
how coem dead people can only go there? probally most of these theroys were made by peopel high on some drug

 

[Morrone]

In the Universe something has to create something else. God isn't forced under the same properties of the Universe. That's why it explains it's hard to understand if you can't understand that God is exempt from the rules of the Universe.

 

[Naz]

it might be our simple minds that tells us that something has to be created though.. instead of just being there. When you start the creator creations theory, you won't get far, either way, in the end you'll get to a point, that it just was there. The creator of the creator that created creations just was there.. most likely it had a creator too.. I doubt we'll ever find out. And what does it matter.. allthough I love philosophy, I started to realize that realizing how much I mean in his universe, and how small we actually are doesn't make me any happier. Even if I had all the answers I wouldn't feel a type of satisfaction, rather boredom.

 

[Morrone]

Naz I think you would understand this far more clearly if you read the information on the sites I posted.

God doesn't need to be created by something because that is a property of the Universe. God can be infinite because the impossibility of infinite is only restricted to the Universe not to God, the creator of the Universe. Just like time:

"It is not easy for the human mind to envisage the concept of no time, but if one accepts that time is only a dimension of the physical world the idea becomes more acceptable."

That's just an excerpt from the second article. It's hard for the human mind to understand such things because he feels confined to the rules of the Universe in which state that one thing can't exist unless created by another. This only applies to the "physical" world, not "God's" world.

 

[Hibiki]

1st:Foward and back
2nd: Side to Side
3rd:Up and Down

u realize none of that is really right the first dimention is with second dimention is hight and third is depth

hence the term 3d is used to describe things with depth

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

The paradox: You seem to believe that God exists and that people simply cannot understand because our minds are not designed to fathom anything outside of our perception of reality or even our imaginations (as there is still *some* level of logic involved with our imaginations), but that is self defeating. If I cannot comprehend something so foreign than obviously you can't either because we're both human. The idea that God has always existed and will always exist is really impossible to comprehend when you bring in reason and try to make logic out of it. You can say God is exempt, but if you are going to start making exceptions to the rule then why the hell can't you make the exception for Universe instead of God? Why couldn't the universe have always existed? Nothing in science tells us that it couldn't have always existed. After all, science tells us that our perception of time is directly proportional to our speed traveling through space, so that the slower you move the faster time will travel for you and the quicker the slower it will travel for you. If you were to stop moving (somehow avoid all gravity and slow yourself to an exact stop) you would instantaneously burst into dust because time would be passing (from an outsider's perspective) infinitely quickly for you, whereas for you time would have stopped around you and you would not have been able to accelerate back above zero before dieing (if time stops around you then a jet pack or something like that would take an infinitely long time to ignite after all. You moving your arms would take an infinite amount of time. Etc, etc, yadda yadda, theory of relativity, you get the point. Time is something that was created by the universe and as such it cannot necessarily exist in the same form if at all outside of the universe. It is a human interpretation of what we can notibly percieve as change occuring naturally alongside movement, so if there was nothing, there would be no time... blah blah. Anyway the point is that the universe could theoretically exist for an eternity by our standards, because the universe as an entity exists in a realm that isn't subject to any of the laws of time within it, so there is always the chance that the universe itself has and will always exist, with or without the aid of God.

Or, if you wanted to read more into the bible, you could just say that God and the universe are one and the same.

 

[majin goketa]

u realize none of that is really right the first dimention is with second dimention is hight and third is depth

hence the term 3d is used to describe things with depth

I didn't know the order of the first three, so I just stuck them in randomly. Different books list them in different order, but I checked and your order is correct. (Then again their order doesn't matter)

The Universe is a four-dimensional hyper-sphere(accoring to relativity, which has never been disproven and has been proven) So the future already exist as all space and time was created at the Big Bang. I'm not really making a point I just thought it might help.
Another thing, our Universe has one time dimension, foward and back in time. Where God lives might have two, Foward and back and up and down in time. So although he might be exempt from cause and effect in our universe, in his universe he wouldn't.
Just as a One-Dimensional being wouldn't understand if something enter his world from above and he would look down along his one dimensional to see where it came from which is impossible as it didn't origanate down there, We are One-Dimensional time wise and when God entered from above, we look back in time for his origin where his origin isn't back in time.

And that is either some huge philosophical insight or the biggest pile of crap I ever wrote.

 

[Morrone]

10 characters

The paradox: You seem to believe that God exists and that people simply cannot understand because our minds are not designed to fathom anything outside of our perception of reality or even our imaginations (as there is still *some* level of logic involved with our imaginations), but that is self defeating. If I cannot comprehend something so foreign than obviously you can't either because we're both human.

The reason you can't comprehend it is because you can't comprehend these articles, they explain it well. God created the Universe, so therefore of course he is exempt from it's properties. The Universe isn't exempted from it's properties because its theirs. It doesn't say the human mind CAN'T comprehend it, but it is difficult because our logic tells us everything has to have a beginning.

The idea that God has always existed and will always exist is really impossible to comprehend when you bring in reason and try to make logic out of it. You can say God is exempt, but if you are going to start making exceptions to the rule then why the hell can't you make the exception for Universe instead of God?

I just explained this but I will say it again, you can't be exempt of your own laws and properties.

Why couldn't the universe have always existed? Nothing in science tells us that it couldn't have always existed.

Yes, infact, it does. I told uyou before not even REMOTELY intelligent atheists believe in an infinite Universe. For the Universe to have existed for infinitey would mean infinitey has beenr eached, which is IMPOSSIBLE. You are behind your times, my friend.

After all, science tells us that our perception of time is directly proportional to our speed traveling through space, so that the slower you move the faster time will travel for you and the quicker the slower it will travel for you. If you were to stop moving (somehow avoid all gravity and slow yourself to an exact stop) you would instantaneously burst into dust because time would be passing (from an outsider's perspective) infinitely quickly for you, whereas for you time would have stopped around you and you would not have been able to accelerate back above zero before dieing (if time stops around you then a jet pack or something like that would take an infinitely long time to ignite after all. You moving your arms would take an infinite amount of time. Etc, etc, yadda yadda, theory of relativity, you get the point. Time is something that was created by the universe and as such it cannot necessarily exist in the same form if at all outside of the universe. It is a human interpretation of what we can notibly percieve as change occuring naturally alongside movement, so if there was nothing, there would be no time... blah blah. Anyway the point is that the universe could theoretically exist for an eternity by our standards, because the universe as an entity exists in a realm that isn't subject to any of the laws of time within it, so there is always the chance that the universe itself has and will always exist, with or without the aid of God.

No it is not but if you are just going to deny fact and logic then go right ahead, I wont bother countering it.

Or, if you wanted to read more into the bible, you could just say that God and the universe are one and the same.

You really need to get new material. The theory of an infinite Universe has been proved quiet impossible. If the Universe was infinite we could not be here right now. So unless you suggest that we are not here, then I would recommend you cease supporting such a radical theory. Most atheists scientists today have shifted to the theory of the "Big Bang" but as my first article states something with a beginning most probably has a cause, and a cause such as the Universe must be personal.

 

[Synth]

i believe that their is a supreme being who might actually not be named "God", but watches over us all and acts as a conscience and is the reason we have preminitions, breakthroughs, thoughts, and emotions period.

practicing with tai chi i've realized that its not "gravity" but pure energy that holds and binds us. my sts teacher said that atoms are a product of energy and they have to constantly move and were just a product of biological coincidence. im not really sure about that, but it seems like the logical and less puzzling reason we exsist. it also seems with logic there is a certain level of fear, misunderstanding , and a sort of blind bias toward the stuff we see daily to indifferences that make the numbers, statistics, theories, and everyday solutions wrong.

its like the human race freaks out when they see something new and there scared that their is more to reality than they have ever known. we need to have another space race because the earth is starting to overcrowd and people are trying to escape instead of looking for answers. it this circle of paranoia and the fact they use religion to sugar coat it all that makes me sick. i'm not going to explain why and how i wrote this "i just felt compeled to do so"

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Moronne you're off in your own little world now. What in the bible convinced you that God can't be one with the universe? He created us and we are a part of him as is our world, if you believe that kind of thing. That's no radical threory at all, that's just one interpretation of the bible.

Next just know that your articals don't prove or explain anything at all. Before they start making any sense you have to take a leap of faith and believe that God exists outside of reality. That is two leaps of faith actually, one to say that God exists, and another to say that he does not exist in the universe he created for us. If you don't believe in either one then your articles make little to no sense whatsoever. It's too easy for you to just accept something for fact but tough for you when somebody else doesn't feel the same way. The universe DOES exist outside of our own rules of laws and math. We have NO clue as to what is outside of our universe or if there is anything outside of our universe. We're trapped inside of it and so there is no way that our laws of physics could extend beyond the Universe and into the void of nothing, or other dimensions. That nullifies your "theory" that reaching infinite is impossible.

You are tripping over your own ideology. Just because you believe in God doesn't make you right, but you seem to think it does. That is the principle behind these articles. If you don't believe in God at all, these articles don't prove anything. If you have faith it will just make it stronger. Therefore, it is no argument for believing in God, only an act of justifying a faith that is already there.


Edit- And when I say that the human mind cannot comprehend infinite, I am *not* talking about your articles, I am talking about common sense. There is no way human beings could logically or even illogically comprehend something that follows another set of rules altogether from this Universe and has existed infinitely. The Universe itself, for example. You seem to think that by the Universe I mean inside of the universe, but I don't. Fill up a baloon with water and roll it along the ground. Inside of that baloon is the universe. What is outside of it? What rules are applied by the room that the baloon is rolling around in to the baloon itself? If the room exists outside of time, and time only exists inside of the Universe, then how could you suggest that it could not have existed infinitely long by our standards of time?