Obama

[sub]

He can and will be blamed for the economic situation. Hoover was not the cause of the great depression, but the people living at the time sure did blame him and hate him for it. He lost the reelection by a landslide.

@FP: I disagree with you. People are expecting Obama to magically fix all of their problems, which is retarded and impossible. Also, Rush wants Obama to fail.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ETnzur7oVA[/ame]

 

[Skiwan]

I was talking about people with brain cells. Idiots blame anyone.

Plus Rush is an idiot, we've had national healthcare for 50 years, and that hasn't led a rampage of government owned industries, and you know what? I really like knowing if I survive a gunshot wound or a horrific knife attack or a heart attack etc, I dont have to pay for a damn thing. If i get something i want treated, and i want the best service, I can always go private and pay for the best treatment.

 

[sub]

Oh, well then you're not talking about the American voting population.

It doesn't matter whose fault it was, if the economy is **** when you're president, you're blamed for it. If the economy is awesome when you're president, you're praised for it. The economy was awesome under Clinton (through nothing he did) and people loved him for it. That's just the way it works.

 

[Skiwan]

I dont see how anyone can think the cause of it can be down to Obama, since the problems occurred before he was even a nominee, all people can do is criticise him for not giving a good enough solution, but he cannot be blamed for the cause of it, nobody in their right mind can think that.

Here, its a bit different, since our current Prime Minister was Chancellor of the exchequer for the past 10 years, who is responsible for all of our economical and financial matters, who when elected claimed to have got rid of the times of boom and bust, and now we're going through the biggest bust we've ever had. See I can understand people blaming him for having a lack of foresight, but still it was a complete **** up by everyone, since we put too much faith in the banking system in the first place.

I seriously think politics should be taught at least once a week by law in schools because some people baffle me with reasons they give to vote for certain people, or what they expect them to do, it's quite frightening. Not elementary schools ofc, but at an age where people are old enough to understand and comprehend politics, it's just amazing that people vote without a clue of what they're voting for, you cannot call that real democracy since most of these children are just indoctrinated by their peers/family/friends political stance without the facts and information to help them make an informed decision. It's appalling how uninterested most youth are in politics, it's a real shame that they don't understand how incredibly influential it is on their lives.

 

[Chakra-X]

i cant count how many people who were interviewed after the inauguration clearly only supported him because of his skin color. We may as well had OJ simpson running in his place, thats all the majority of his "biggest supporters" cared about anyways.

"so why are you voting for obama"
-
"ITS ABOUT TIME WE HAD A BROTHER IN THE WHITE HOUSE"
-
"what about his policies?"
-
"WHO GIVES A ****, HES MAH *****"

a bit extreme? yes. But thats the general message most of these people sent out.

...Can you blame them? Black man representing progress on race relations in America gives a speech in Washington, D.C. with almost 2 million people watching? That's extremely reminiscent of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s speech. I was not expecting much people to say with tears in their eyes "oh his economic policy has a rational distribution of funds! The foreign policy is flawless!" I think it is pretty understandable to get caught up in such a moment and say a more raw feeling towards his inauguration.

And it's pretty much wrong that Presidents get blamed for both good and bad things they do. While W. actually did bad things, I don't really consider him the main reason that our economy is terrible (though didn't he say everything was alright in his State of the Union? Honestly correct me if I am wrong)

And as for Obama's foreign policy advisor...Well, he has a trend of appointing people who will butt horns. I hope that's the case if what you say is true fortnox.

 

[MF29]

I feel as if people are purposely over pressuring Obama. It would be impossible for everything in USA to revert back to peace and harmony in a matter of weeks. His race, nor personality will determine the outcome of our country. To anyone who feels this way, please kindly and gently, let go of his penis, close your mouth, and let him to his job. There's no given guarantee of him actually succeeding at what people want him to do, but, bombarding him with gratuitous insults will not cause him to accomplish his and our goals.

 

[DiebytheSword]

on the flip side, if and when he succeeds and keeps his promises, will he have gained a vote in 2012?

Probably not, don't forget that Obama is pretty much diametrically opposed to all my political beliefs. If he keeps his promises, he will have made his reach across the aisle promise null and void. He seems to think that by doing good, that I will accept thinly veiled socialism, or that nationalization of major banks and automakers, or releasing of terrorists into general population prisons so they can recruit more lowlifes, or that I'll fully enjoy loosing my very good health care plan that I work hard for to a **** one that the government runs. I also don't believe in regulating the market (it spooks investors, and right now they need to not be spooked further) and I don't believe that we should be kneecapping industry to clean up a mythological warming trend.

I hope he succeeds as President, I hope that he does right by our country. I just don't like what comes with it, and I'm not sure that 4 more years are something he should get.

He's still massively unproven, untested, and so far, he's gone back on many of his campaign promises. His cabinet is a who's who of Washington. Special interest and lobbyist infect his core group. His version of transparency is keeping the press in the dark. Taxes are going up, act surprised. There is a lot I don't like.

 

[Skiwan]

Probably not, don't forget that Obama is pretty much diametrically opposed to all my political beliefs. If he keeps his promises, he will have made his reach across the aisle promise null and void. He seems to think that by doing good, that I will accept thinly veiled socialism, or that nationalization of major banks and automakers, or releasing of terrorists into general population prisons so they can recruit more lowlifes, or that I'll fully enjoy loosing my very good health care plan that I work hard for to a **** one that the government runs. I also don't believe in regulating the market (it spooks investors, and right now they need to not be spooked further) and I don't believe that we should be kneecapping industry to clean up a mythological warming trend.

If national healthcare would become anything like over here you wouldn't lose your health care plan, we have them here too, you can choose to go NHS or private, NHS require waiting lists etc, people with health-care plans get seen and treated straight away in a much nicer place too usually. The only thing is you'd see a rise in taxes.

The possibility of nationalisation of the banks is due to the fact that they've all gone tits up and consolidation is a possible solution to the mess they've caused since they decided to gamble with everyone's money the past 10 years because nobody's been regulating them.

 

[DiebytheSword]

I disagree. Its regulation that's caused them to fail. They are forced to give loans to low income houses, why do you think so many financial insitutions failed after the housing market went tits up? Trust me, I qualified for a loan, and looked at the payments, and knew it would be insanity to even try to pay for that house. I'd be one of the people loosing their shirts right now. The best part? I qualified for that loan under Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's first time homeowner mortgages. The ones that were signed into law by our beloved Bill Clinton. Just because I had the wisdom not to close that deal, doesn't mean there aren't others that didn't try. That was the reason for the financial markets failure, not deregulation. Bad regulations are as bad as no regulations at all.

Further, I find absolutely no reason whatsoever to pay more taxes so someone I don't know gets health care! I give to charity all year long, and I am on quite a meager budget. I don't need all that money goverment mandated into some slacker's wallet. There are enough people doing that already with welfare and social security. I understand the old, but the young and healthy (and probably illegal) that take those checks are a burden I was never comfortable with. Now I get to cover their health care costs? There is also another problem with national health care, our Health Care system is overburdened as it is.

All of this nonsense and he signs an executive order allowing funds to go to abortion clinics overseas?! What the **** do I care that someone in Mexico can now have an abortion on my dime? I see plenty of other places that dime NEEDS to go. I am not pro-life, but I am pro-notwastingmygoddamnmoneyonothercountries. A good place to start would be our schools and hospitals . . . that kind of tax and spend I don't mind.

But no, he started with closing gitmo, and followed it up with foriegn abortion aid.

Because dead babies and the foreign mothers who can't have them were more important than our economy, two wars, controlling terrorism and a host of other issues he should have dealt with.

Not even a week in, and his chances for a conservative independent to swing blue are rapidly diminishing.

 

[Brosiris]

He can and will be blamed for the economic situation. Hoover was not the cause of the great depression, but the people living at the time sure did blame him and hate him for it. He lost the reelection by a landslide.

@FP: I disagree with you. People are expecting Obama to magically fix all of their problems, which is retarded and impossible. Also, Rush wants Obama to fail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ETnzur7oVA

If people seriously believe all that, they need to grow up. Anyone who thinks this one man, can magically fix every problem with the U.S is retarded. And that's not a joke.

Don't get me wrong, I expect him to fix some problems, hopefully all the ones he said he would, but I don't expect it over night, and I don't expect it over the course of a year or so. Hopefully by the time his reign is over, whether it be 4 or 8 years, he will have fixed most, or all of the U.S problems.

Also, about that video, i saw the fox news thing in the bottom corner of it, so I didn't watch it, because Fox news is terrible. But I'm going to assume that he said he want's Obama to fail, in which case, which gives me further reason not to watch it. Why WOULD you want Obama to fail? So you can continue to live in a ****ty country? I mean, is that what these Americans who want Obama to fail want? Do they want to continue to live in a terrible country in a recession, with no jobs, minimum wage, unfair treatment etc?

People need to stop talking about his skin color, and start talking about his actual attributes. His skin color is irrelevant to anything, if I honestly thought he was going to be a terrible president, I wouldn't have voted for him. I don't care if he's black, white, green, yellow or purple. If I hate his views, I'll hate him. There are plenty of black people I hate, and they damn well know it. They, and I, know it's not because of their race, but because they're just overall douchebags.

Now, I know there are people out there who hate Obama only because of his skin, but to want him to fail, just so they can laugh for 15 seconds, and continue on with their miserable lives, is asinine.

 

[DiebytheSword]

The actual thing Limbaugh said is that if success mean socialism, he hopes that Obama fails. I don't personally like Limbaugh, so I'm not definding him (especially when he's talking about conservatives that hope that Obama does well). I don't think anyone would want a US President to fail the country . . . even Rush Limbaugh.

 

[Skiwan]

I disagree. Its regulation that's caused them to fail. They are forced to give loans to low income houses, why do you think so many financial insitutions failed after the housing market went tits up? Trust me, I qualified for a loan, and looked at the payments, and knew it would be insanity to even try to pay for that house. I'd be one of the people loosing their shirts right now. The best part? I qualified for that loan under Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's first time homeowner mortgages. The ones that were signed into law by our beloved Bill Clinton. Just because I had the wisdom not to close that deal, doesn't mean there aren't others that didn't try. That was the reason for the financial markets failure, not deregulation. Bad regulations are as bad as no regulations at all.

The problem occured because mortgage companies were making huge gambles with consolidation packages, it was due to nobody regulating the market that it go so out of hand that it became such a huge risk to lend to anyone. http://www.mortgageguideuk.co.uk/blog/debt/credit-crunch-explained/ that explains it better than I can. There's been a number of documentaries here about how it all began, and its pretty clear to me, that it was a fault of a market that were taking huge risks with large debt bundles.

Am I wrong thinking nationalised healthcare would mean a free healthcare service? sorry if i got it wrong before, but that's what I thought you were talking about.

 

[sub]

It would mean a free healthcare system. Right now, if you want healthcare, you have to have a job that provides it. Cuc is worried that if the government provides free healthcare plans, they won't be as good as the plan currently provided by his company. His company might, in an attempt to save money, stop providing their employees with a health care plan and instead tell them to go on the free plan.

It's a real concern, but at the same time, I think this is for the best. You can't ignore the millions of Americans (what was it, 50 million?) who are without a healthcare plan.

 

[DiebytheSword]

Sub is partially correct. There was also talk of eliminating health care plans like mine (I currently have Blue Cross, Blue Shield, widely regarded as the best plan you can get in the US) and forcing everyone to take the federally mandated one. In a country that prides itself on liberty and freedom, that's a turn for the worst. The secondary concern would be that they would drop my health care plan and force me to take the garbage one by default.

As for the consolidations, toxic debt is still toxic because of bad regulation, regardless of who bought it in consolidation efforts. Remember in the US, first time homeowners are required to qualify for their loan, regardless of whether or not they can actually pay for it.

 

[jtabs]

Sub is partially correct. There was also talk of eliminating health care plans like mine (I currently have Blue Cross, Blue Shield, widely regarded as the best plan you can get in the US) and forcing everyone to take the federally mandated one. In a country that prides itself on liberty and freedom, that's a turn for the worst. The secondary concern would be that they would drop my health care plan and force me to take the garbage one by default.

As for the consolidations, toxic debt is still toxic because of bad regulation, regardless of who bought it in consolidation efforts. Remember in the US, first time homeowners are required to qualify for their loan, regardless of whether or not they can actually pay for it.

Not to mention that if there ever becomes a government sponsored health care system the government will then have a vested interest in your health. Whats to stop them from saying that you can't do things because its bad for your health.

 

[DiebytheSword]

A very good point. I have my company doing that now, in a good way. I get health care credits for passing certain health benchmarks; my company pays a little more into my share of the bill if I stay healthy enough. The government, which controlls the law, would simply have to legislate more of my personal freedom away to change that same scheme from voluntary to compulsary.

For those of you who don't know, I have several serious illnesses that will continue well into my old age. I'm hypertensive, I have diabetes, and suffer from sleep apnea. All are covered by my Blue Cross plan with marginal costs to me. I shudder to think what would happen to my situation under Medicare/Medicaid. I don't even want to think of what might happen if I'm forced to accept the governments aid.

After all, I don't trust them with my tax dollars on a good day, so I'm supposed to trust them with my health?

On the up side, I am quite happy with two things Obama is leaning towards. Net neutrality (screw you, greedy net providers! I will continue to abuse whatever bandwidth you say is mine!), and of course, fixing the US broadband infrastructure. FIOS in my town? Sweet. I also support stem cell research.

Looks like I'm not the only person mad at him already:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...h-Limbaugh-as-bipartisan-spirit-crumbles.html

 

[Jesus]

Cuc, you remember my knee problems right?

how much do you pay for your health insurance? how much would you have been likely to have to pay for a repairation on both an anterior and posterior crusciate ligament, along with knee cap repairation. baring in mind i opted for keyhole surgery, which only left two scars less than 5mm wide each.

cos my government fronted all of that. along with most of my dental costs. if i were to get into a fight, that i started, and ended up bleeding out, with broken bones, and a brain heamorage. i still wouldn't have to pay for it (except in jail time i guess).
when i go abroad, all i need to do is take an E1-11 form with me, and my government will cover all medical expenses in that country too.

a nationally funded health care plan is the way forward.

if they tried to do the reverse of what's happening there, here, and asked us to start paying for health insurance ("care"). there would be an outcry like you wouldn't believe, probably even civil unrest.

give this a read:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html

 

[jtabs]

Cuc, you remember my knee problems right?

how much do you pay for your health insurance? how much would you have been likely to have to pay for a repairation on both an anterior and posterior crusciate ligament, along with knee cap repairation. baring in mind i opted for keyhole surgery, which only left two scars less than 5mm wide each.

cos my government fronted all of that. along with most of my dental costs. if i were to get into a fight, that i started, and ended up bleeding out, with broken bones, and a brain heamorage. i still wouldn't have to pay for it (except in jail time i guess).

a nationally funded health care plan is the way forward.

I did that to myself when I fell asleep at the wheel. Well over a million dollars went into fixing me. I didn't pay for it. I could also shoot myself and my insurance will cover it. I don't understand your point.

 

[Jesus]

you still pay for your insurance though.

i have never paid a penny toward ANYTHING medical, except about £5 for a perscription of drugs.

glad you're ok, btw

 

[Brosiris]

you still pay for your insurance though.

i have never paid a penny toward ANYTHING medical, except about £5 for a perscription of drugs.

glad you're ok, btw

You don't pay taxes? SIGN ME UP!

I'm moving to where ever the hell you live.