Now you have an excuse!

[pumadace2000]

The manga is the absolute truth. If it's NOT IN THE MANGA™, it's a lie. GT can go such my ****, though.

Tell that to the Naruto fillers. Eeesh. I can take lies, if they entertain me. Beerus entertained me. The eentirety of GT did not. So to quote The Matrix: 'Ignorance is bliss.'

 

[Henry]

[video=youtube;CYexCzpjY8I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYexCzpjY8I[/video]

That, right there at the beginning is why I HATE Battle of Gods and don't consider that movie to be cannon even if the own authors say it is. They disgraced the Vegeta character's pride and that's something he DEFINITELY would NEVER do in his life. Vegeta was someone who wouldn't even want to do the fusion because of the silly steps, and he does this? Screw that movie...

 

[Critical_Error]

Supposedly Toriyama considers BOG and the upcoming movie to be part of the manga continuity, despite the fact that it doesn't work. Also I believe he went back to Freeza not because he couldn't think of something else, but because he liked Freeza as a villain and had... additional inspiration/motivation to go with him in particular.

Just adding to the points you made ~ Toriyama has said that Vegeta will been the central character of this film. We also know that Vegeta has always hated Goku for, among other things, being the one who avenged the Saiyan race by killing Frieza. I think one of the additional reasons of bringing Frieza back was to allow Vegeta to be the one to put down Frieza for good ~ thus avenging his father, his people, and his pride.

@pumadace2000, if ignorance is bliss, it is folly to be wise.

 

[pumadace2000]

Wow those are some strong feelings, but honestly for me, I loved ever scene with Vegeta, even the silly one. I guess they wanted to make him a lot more attached to earth and his friends, so much that he would go to any lengths to save them, even if it means hurting his precious pride. And say what you will but this clip also contains the scene where he briefly beats the shit out of Beerus. That shit honestly was something I wanted to see Vegeta do for years. I'll take it.

Ok so if the speculation is true, that Freeza only comes back for Vegeta to beat the snot out of him this time, the question would be how do you get Goku out of the way?

 

[hleV]

That, right there at the beginning is why I HATE Battle of Gods and don't consider that movie to be cannon even if the own authors say it is. They disgraced the Vegeta character's pride and that's something he DEFINITELY would NEVER do in his life. Vegeta was someone who wouldn't even want to do the fusion because of the silly steps, and he does this? Screw that movie...

Many people feel this way, many people don't. I'm somewhere in-between, and actually dislike BOG not because of supposedly out-of-character or so moments, but because of direct contradictions to the manga.

But back to your point. In the manga, we have seen that Vegeta is willing to put away his pride when it comes to protecting people he cares about, which is Bulma and Trunks, which is why he agreed to fuse with Goku, even if just for one time only. Now in BOG he did that silly Bingo dance and all, but keep in mind that there was a whole bunch of different people working on BOG and Toriyama didn't exactly have much to do with the animation itself, so it is very likely that the movie didn't portray the events and characters (and hopefully Vegeta's faces during Bingo dance) exactly how Toriyama imagined it. Vegeta wouldn't do this if the situation wasn't hopeless or if his family wasn't involved. He knew he had no chance against Beerus, meaning that either he does something or his family dies.
I only realized this after the 2nd or 3rd time I've seen BOG.

@Critical_Error,
There is no confirmation that Vegeta is going to be the star of 2015 movie. Toriyama only said in the past that "if another DB movie was to happen, I'd like Vegeta to take the primary role" or something, not that it will definitely happen.

 

[Critical_Error]

@Critical_Error,
There is no confirmation that Vegeta is going to be the star of 2015 movie. Toriyama only said in the past that "if another DB movie was to happen, I'd like Vegeta to take the primary role" or something, not that it will definitely happen.

I think him saying that he'd like for Vegeta to be the primary role if there was to be another movie, and the fact that there is now another movie is enough reason to assume that Vegeta is the primary role of this new movie - if this is what Toriyama wants, it's what is going to happen. The trend of Vegeta being more of a central role has been ever increasing since he first appeared, and now it's gotten to the stage that he is being shown standing right next to Goku in the movies promotional poster http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...n/latest/scale-to-width/280?cb=20141121010716 <--- case in point. Based on the comments that were made in regards to Vegeta's strength at the end of BoG, it's safe to assume that the era of Goku just winning all the time is coming to a close (at least for this film). Vegeta and Goku are now friends, they are of relatively equal strength, they both have something they desperately wish to protect ~ it's now a two man show.

 

[pumadace2000]

I think him saying that he'd like for Vegeta to be the primary role if there was to be another movie, and the fact that there is now another movie is enough reason to assume that Vegeta is the primary role of this new movie - if this is what Toriyama wants, it's what is going to happen. The trend of Vegeta being more of a central role has been ever increasing since he first appeared, and now it's gotten to the stage that he is being shown standing right next to Goku in the movies promotional poster http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...n/latest/scale-to-width/280?cb=20141121010716 <--- case in point. Based on the comments that were made in regards to Vegeta's strength at the end of BoG, it's safe to assume that the era of Goku just winning all the time is coming to a close (at least for this film). Vegeta and Goku are now friends, they are of relatively equal strength, they both have something they desperately wish to protect ~ it's now a two man show.

I don't know about their strengths being equal now. I mean goku's base form now has god powers. SSJ form is even more powerful. Vegeta was only as strong as SSJ 3 goku when his wife got smacked and that's before Goku became a SSJ God. So the problem still remains. How do you get Goku out of the way, for Vegeta to be the one to clean up?

I was also thinking of something regarding the end of BOG. Beerus mentioned that there are other dimensions with other gods like him. Theory: Could it be possible that this Freeza comes from another dimension where he became a god?

 

[hleV]

You have way too much faith in what Toriyama said that one time before the idea of a movie beyond BOG was even brought up to anyone. Not only is Toriyama's ideas are subject to change, but they're also subject to be influenced by Toei, who are known for favoring Goku.

 

[Critical_Error]

I don't know about their strengths being equal now. I mean goku's base form now has god powers. SSJ form is even more powerful. Vegeta was only as strong as SSJ 3 goku when his wife got smacked and that's before Goku became a SSJ God. So the problem still remains. How do you get Goku out of the way, for Vegeta to be the one to clean up?

I was also thinking of something regarding the end of BOG. Beerus mentioned that there are other dimensions with other gods like him. Theory: Could it be possible that this Freeza comes from another dimension where he became a god?

I don't know where you are getting your information from, but it's sounds so incredibly wrong. Vegeta's actual strength is never mentioned in BoG; the last or second last scene where Goku, Vegeta, and Piccolo ect are talking - Piccolo/Goku (can't remember) admits that Vegeta was as strong, if not stronger than Goku at that moment he fought Beerus. Removing Goku is never going to be an issue, you just have them work together to beat a bad guy because they aren't strong enough to do beat them by themselves.

 

[GodGoku]

looool xD look what i found online xD

 

[pumadace2000]

I don't know where you are getting your information from, but it's sounds so incredibly wrong. Vegeta's actual strength is never mentioned in BoG; the last or second last scene where Goku, Vegeta, and Piccolo ect are talking - Piccolo/Goku (can't remember) admits that Vegeta was as strong, if not stronger than Goku at that moment he fought Beerus. Removing Goku is never going to be an issue, you just have them work together to beat a bad guy because they aren't strong enough to do beat them by themselves.

I'm getting wrong information... there is no accurate information. Vegeta was stronger than Goku when he flipped out, but only when he flipped out. Then Goku became a SSJ God, keeping up with Beerus, then he absorbed that power in his base form, keeping up with Beerus longer and then he became a SSJ and kept up with him even longer.

If my basic logic didn't fail me then Flipped out Vegeta was stronger than SSJ 3 goku and kept up with Beerus for a short amount of time. But then Goku became even stronger than SSJ 3 and stayed stronger than SSJ 3 until the end of the movie keeping up the longest. Which means when he flipped out and only when he flipped out Vegeta was either as strong, or only slightly weaker than Goku as a SSJ after his SSJ god form wore off, but not stronger, otherwise Beerus would have had to put in more effort to knock him out.

And the working together thing would not entirely work for Vegeta that well, if Tory truly wants him to shine this movie. Because he and Goku have "worked together" before and Vegeta was always out-shined as a result.

 

[Critical_Error]

I'm getting wrong information... there is no accurate information. Vegeta was stronger than Goku when he flipped out, but only when he flipped out. Then Goku became a SSJ God, keeping up with Beerus, then he absorbed that power in his base form, keeping up with Beerus longer and then he became a SSJ and kept up with him even longer.

If my basic logic didn't fail me then Flipped out Vegeta was stronger than SSJ 3 goku and kept up with Beerus for a short amount of time. But then Goku became even stronger than SSJ 3 and stayed stronger than SSJ 3 until the end of the movie keeping up the longest. Which means when he flipped out and only when he flipped out Vegeta was either as strong, or only slightly weaker than Goku as a SSJ after his SSJ god form wore off, but not stronger, otherwise Beerus would have had to put in more effort to knock him out.

And the working together thing would not entirely work for Vegeta that well, if Tory truly wants him to shine this movie. Because he and Goku have "worked together" before and Vegeta was always out-shined as a result.

Vegeta is always angry, that's his thing. That whole Bulma thing isn't legit, she doesn't need to be slapped everytime for Vegeta to be strong - that scene was inserted for two reasons. 1: humour, 2: to show the fact that Vegeta is very strong now.

Goku wasn't keeping up with Beerus at all in SSJ 3 ~ he literally got shat on, and was no match for him. Vegeta actually got several hits in, and was hitting Beerus hard enough to inflict enough knock back to continue the barrage of punches. The past is the past, everything is always subject to change. If Tory wants Vegeta to be strong, he will be strong.

 

[pumadace2000]

Vegeta is always angry, that's his thing. That whole Bulma thing isn't legit, she doesn't need to be slapped everytime for Vegeta to be strong - that scene was inserted for two reasons. 1: humour, 2: to show the fact that Vegeta is very strong now.

Goku wasn't keeping up with Beerus at all in SSJ 3 ~ he literally got shat on, and was no match for him. Vegeta actually got several hits in, and was hitting Beerus hard enough to inflict enough knock back to continue the barrage of punches. The past is the past, everything is always subject to change. If Tory wants Vegeta to be strong, he will be strong.

Actually now that you mention it, it could be that despite the fact that Vegeta does draw power from his anger, it is often replaced with fear, especially the fear of dealing with situations that escape his comfort zone. I did do an analysis on his character and from what I could deduce, is that he has a fairly low comfort zone. So when faced an opponent things go the following ways: Either everything goes his way and he is dominating his opponent, or his opponent is somewhat powerful so he forces things to go his way, by using his anger, brutality, bluffs and any other more unconventional means he can come up with, or none of those work, his opponent is too strong and desperation and fear quickly overwhelm him.

Now to me the scene where Bulma get's slapped has a somewhat more... well let's call it 'developed' meaning than yours. Vegeta does care his new home, his new friends, his wife, his family. So in that moment when his wife got struck, someone who means way more to him than he often lets on at this point in the story, everything I just mentioned up there regarding comfort zone, fear, desperation, left out the window. At that point he was fighting for someone other than himself, someone he cared about, who got hurt, making him tap into a potential that went far beyond his known limits at that time, stronger than SSJ 3.

Also read what I just said. I never said SSJ 3 kept up with Beerus. I said Vegeta became stronger than Goku. I mentioned the SSJ 3 form because at that time, that was his most powerful form.

Yes pure rage will bring Vegeta on top, but as we Tory has established several times in his shows/movies is that rage will only make someone incredibly strong, if it has a purpose.

 

[hleV]

Stop trying to justify Vegeta's rage boost. That shit didn't make any ******* sense and the series heavily implied that only Gohan has this thing (Goten and Trunks weren't denied it, but nothing confirms they could pull that off too).

 

[pumadace2000]

Stop trying to justify Vegeta's rage boost. That shit didn't make any ******* sense and the series heavily implied that only Gohan has this thing (Goten and Trunks weren't denied it, but nothing confirms they could pull that off too).

Goku becoming SSJ for the first time... Cough.

 

[hleV]

What?

 

[pumadace2000]

What?

Frieza was beating up Goku, Krillin got killed. Goku lost his shit. Gained second wind and a major powerup. Goku beat Freeza with his new power. It's all happened before, Kirsten.

Nothing new in BOG's scene.

 

[hleV]

Re-read my post and come back when you have a clue.

 

[pumadace2000]

Re-read my post and come back when you have a clue.


implied that only Gohan has this thing

Pretty sure there are only so many ways you can say only one character can do something. Goku did the same thing. Kayo-what was the limit. Rage over the loss of a loved one-> Limit surpassed. Now SSJ is the limit. Gohan was naturally talented at boosting, being able to do it even at a tender age. But he was not the only one. Sayian/Human half breeds weren't either.

Also the series never implied Goku can 'rage boost'. True. No one talked about him rage boosting. He just did.

 

[hleV]

I told you to come back when you have a clue. The fact that you consider transformations and special techniques to be the same thing as rage boost which only Gohan was noted to be able to do due to him being a Saiyan and Human hybrid, and nobody else ever doing it even though they had all the opportunities in the world for that proves that you are not worth having a discussion with.