North Korea attacks South Korea

[Damaera]

If you see it that way, then I think the world would be better without US or Russia wich are the 2 top weapon sellers. Without them, most of 3th world countries, like Korea, Iran, India would not even have nuclear weapons.

Here's the thing though, America doesn't send threats out to other countries, unlike North Korea. That, and our governmental system is nothing like theirs.

 

[harSens]

Here's the thing though, America doesn't send threats out to other countries, unlike North Korea. That, and our governmental system is nothing like theirs.

They threaten to invade the Netherlands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Protection_Act. But at least the US flexing it's military muscles didn't involve bombing a Dutch island.

 

[DiebytheSword]

North Korea fired around 200 rounds, South Korea responded with 80, and scrambled F-16s. Is it an escalation of force by DPRK? Yes. Will anything more of this? Probably not. Does this call for the destruction of DPRK? Absolutely not. If that's a war you want to fight, feel free to enlist. I'm going to go ahead and say **** that, though. Worse comes to worst, North Korea wigs out and China takes care of it. It's their mutant baby; not ours. Our job is to make sure that baby stays in his crib.

Probably the best sum up I've seen on this situation in a while. *chuckles at mutant baby*

China will take care of this, as this had several huge effects that were not intended. Pissing off America, the South's ally, is only actually a minor part of their concern. China ultimately wants peace and stability in the region, and this not only threatens to put more American Soldiers in the region at the urging of the South Korean government, but it also threatens to remilitarize Japan who has repeatedly stated that this would be the garaunteed reaction of a toppled South Korea. It also focuses UN attention on the North, and sloppy, danlging details like who upgraded their nuclear weapon fuel facilities recently despite the embargo. All of this happens while China is trying to get people to calm down and come back to the negotiating table with North Korea over nukes. Effectively Fearless Leader fired cannons full of egg at Beijing and hit them square on the face.

 

[Snowm@n]

So kill all the Americans and let the North Koreans be? mmkay.

Who said anything about killing? I'm just saying the world would be better off without ignorant greedy people, did I lie?

Here's the thing though, America doesn't send threats out to other countries, unlike North Korea. That, and our governmental system is nothing like theirs.

Are you serious? Iraq? Besides Iraq, you think they don't threaten other countries because you problably are watching/reading the wrong media. US/Israel have been threatning Iran for the last 10 months. Ever since Hugo Chavez is the president of Venezuela, America has threatened to take him out, why do you think he made a personal video telling Bush "If you want some, come and get it mr.donkey"? And how about Korea? There was never an evidence that an american boat was shot by north korean soldiers, but that by it self, gave them the right to invade without any reasonable question. 2 weeks ago, a missile was launched from the coast of LA in direction to Asia, that was problably another threat. The US are threatening weak belic + high resources countries every day so they can make excuses to invade them. They have been doing so for decades, and now, they have personal bases in european countries, 6 of those bases are armed with nuclear weapons, wich are in Poland, Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Turkey, atm all those nukes are pointed to the middle east, is that not a threat?

North Korea is far from beeing an example but US are not any better.

 

[-Origin]

The world would be best off without any people at all.

 

[Zeonix]

There was never an evidence that an american boat was shot by north korean soldiers, but that by it self, gave them the right to invade without any reasonable question. 2 weeks ago, a missile was launched from the coast of LA in direction to Asia, that was problably another threat. The US are threatening weak belic + high resources countries every day so they can make excuses to invade them. They have been doing so for decades, and now, they have personal bases in european countries, 6 of those bases are armed with nuclear weapons, wich are in Poland, Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Turkey, atm all those nukes are pointed to the middle east, is that not a threat?

North Korea is far from beeing an example but US are not any better.

You understand North Korea struck first in the Korean War, right? And who did America invade? Our forces were sent to the South as a defensive measure against the North. Had there been no intervention, the South would have gotten rolled over because they were ridiculously unprepared for the juggernaut racing towards them.

Do you know why we initially had so many bases in Europe? Or why we were allowed to stage nuclear-mother****ing-weapons there? Do you remember the Cold War. Yeah. Good times. Who was "the enemy" at the time? Who do you think the nukes were "aimed at"? Why would we aim nukes at countries we could destroy with conventional weapons, especially when there are bigger fish in the world who we'd deem worthier of being on the receiving end of our first strike response?

Are our hands clean? Nah. Everyone knows that. But to say we're as bad as DPRK is insane. We don't have the highest quality of life in the world, but it sure as **** isn't North Korea status either. Our government is ****ty, but it isn't North Korea ****ty.

You say we'd be better off without the ignorant. If you're representative of a substantial percentage of the human population, it'd be easy for me to agree. But disappearing an entire segment of humanity probably isn't the answer to our problems. Education is key.

On topic, it occurred to me that this display of strength by DPRK was more of a ploy than an attack. Every time they do something ridiculous, people flip out, say they're going to retaliate.....and then nothing happens. Those actions (that being bombarding islands, or sinking ships) become the new norm. North Korea blows up an island. Nothing happens. Now when they do it again, we're not as shocked as the first time. It's easier for them to get away with doing it again. The further they push the line, the more desensitized we become to seemingly less crazy displays of violence, like launching ballistic missiles into the ocean. They launched missiles? Pfft. At least they're not detonating nukes! They're by no means dumb, so I'm wondering how far they want/need to push the line and for what purpose.

 

[Synth]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...n-missile-launch-Hawaii-Independence-Day.html

http://www.examiner.com/weather-in-los-angeles/missile-launch-over-southern-california-explained

 

[DiebytheSword]

On topic, it occurred to me that this display of strength by DPRK was more of a ploy than an attack. Every time they do something ridiculous, people flip out, say they're going to retaliate.....and then nothing happens. Those actions (that being bombarding islands, or sinking ships) become the new norm. North Korea blows up an island. Nothing happens. Now when they do it again, we're not as shocked as the first time. It's easier for them to get away with doing it again. The further they push the line, the more desensitized we become to seemingly less crazy displays of violence, like launching ballistic missiles into the ocean. They launched missiles? Pfft. At least they're not detonating nukes! They're by no means dumb, so I'm wondering how far they want/need to push the line and for what purpose.

That's actually quite easy to answer. To say that the DPRK's economy is dead and floundering is a vast understatment, and they routinely hold the world hostage for more money. They have done this to Bush, Clinton, Bush and are trying to do it to Obama. To his credit, his administration has refused to pay the ransom this presidency. Their answer was to sink a ROK cruiser. When China called us back to the table, we refused again, this time they shelled an island. They come to the table with rediculous demands and concessions, failing to get these, they then blame ROK and the USA of being stubborn, then go do a nuke test, or sell nuclear technology to Syria and Iran. Apparently hyperviolent and understable Myanmar (Burma) is even deserving of nuclear technology under Kim Jong Il. The reasoning is simple, Stalinist and Maoist socialism do not work, it always destroys the country it is set up in. They have nothing left but resources which they are obligated to sell to China, who in turn protects them from us in the UN and physically. I'm fairly certain that everytime Kim Jong Il finds out he can't buy his next game console because the country is out of money he literally blows something up to grab the worlds attention. Afterwards, they say they are willing to go back to "normalized" relations provided they are paid off or given a major concession (like being allowed to sell weapons to Myanmar in return for oil and food). There little ploy works well in most cases, but every once in a while they piss off China in the process. This will be one of those times.

 

[Rocky]

*chuckles at mutant baby*

Glad I wasn't the only one

 

[J-Dude]

I find the NK situation sad. These people never really get a choice. They're prisoners of the largest penitentiary on the planet. Insane, fraudulent propaganda is shoved down their throats on top of skewed facts and slander. And they're so determinedly cut-off from everything that they can never know whether their government is telling them the true or a lie.

I'd love to see a quick, shock and awe assault, in full view of the civilians. As soon as the immediate Korean forces present are subjugated, we back off. Maybe we air-drop pamphlets to boot. Sew the seeds of discord, let them know that North Korea lacks any sort of power to resist the power and technology of a fully-fledged first-world country. And of course, we make sure they understand that we intended to cease the attack before the battle started, so when their government tries to spin things so it looks like the foreigners retreated, it will be apparent, at least to some.

But of course, that's probably not very practical, more like a fantasy-strike.

 

[Deathshot]

I think these Forums show enough how people are. The situations on this forum shows enough how people can be. They don't agree on a lot of things. There are childish things that go on. The admin are the leaders, the mods are the Army, and members are just normal civilians where as I guess you can consider FP the Upper Class and Beta Testers are the Special Forces.


But truly we see how people are. What we need is something we can't have. "Peace". But what is peace?

 

[sub]

That's actually quite easy to answer. To say that the DPRK's economy is dead and floundering is a vast understatment, and they routinely hold the world hostage for more money. They have done this to Bush, Clinton, Bush and are trying to do it to Obama. To his credit, his administration has refused to pay the ransom this presidency. Their answer was to sink a ROK cruiser. When China called us back to the table, we refused again, this time they shelled an island. They come to the table with rediculous demands and concessions, failing to get these, they then blame ROK and the USA of being stubborn, then go do a nuke test, or sell nuclear technology to Syria and Iran. Apparently hyperviolent and understable Myanmar (Burma) is even deserving of nuclear technology under Kim Jong Il. The reasoning is simple, Stalinist and Maoist socialism do not work, it always destroys the country it is set up in. They have nothing left but resources which they are obligated to sell to China, who in turn protects them from us in the UN and physically. I'm fairly certain that everytime Kim Jong Il finds out he can't buy his next game console because the country is out of money he literally blows something up to grab the worlds attention. Afterwards, they say they are willing to go back to "normalized" relations provided they are paid off or given a major concession (like being allowed to sell weapons to Myanmar in return for oil and food). There little ploy works well in most cases, but every once in a while they piss off China in the process. This will be one of those times.

Thank you for typing what I intended to say. North Korea has pulled this stunt many times before. To name a few off the top of my head, they have assassinated South Korean Presidential Cabinet members, they have taken citizens of South Korea hostage, I believe they even shot a South Korean non military aircraft out of the sky, and then there was the recent attack on a South Korean ship.

China said they would help us defeat North Korea if **** went down. They're too much of a Wild card. Maybe the Korean God of Starcraft will die, and it can become a fun game again.

A) There are amazing Starcraft players from North America and Europe, players who are able to compete with Koreans. In fact, I'd argue that the average playstyle of the American / European player is superior to the average Korean playstyle. Koreans tend to favor one big all or nothing push where as Americans / Europeans tend to favor longer macro games that are much safer / not as risky. This is irrelevant to the average player, though.

B) You live in America. Thanks to Battlenet 2.0, you cannot play against Koreans unless you somehow acquire a Korean Starcraft II account. You would need to obtain a valid South Korean social security number in order to do so, so good luck with that.

C) Even if you were somehow able to play versus Koreans, this would be meaningless to you thanks to matchmaking. It's not like every player from Korea is some sort of god at Starcraft, you'd be matched up with people who are at your skill level. The matchmaking system is surprisingly good.

D) Starcraft is fun.

For the record, I'm talking about Starcraft 2, not 1.

 

[Zeonix]

Even if this were simply about obtaining funds, North Korea has slowly tested and pushed back our and South Korea's threshold against limits on conventional attacks time and again. We went from, "If you cross this line, we'll **** you up." to "If you blow up our ships, we'll **** you up" to "If you keep detonating nukes, we'll **** you up....maybe". And every single time, nothing was done to them. Yeah, yeah. Sanctions and trade embargoes en mass, but that hasn't done anything to stall North Korean aggression. What separates the times North Korea shot missiles into the sea and no man's land, which were purely for show, and now is a military installation was actually bombarded this time. And to happen only days after we reveal North Korea has multiple uranium enrichment facilities? That's pretty ballsy. These guys are chess players. They're not planning for a confrontation today or tomorrow. They're in this for the long haul, and their greatest asset is the belief that they're relatively harmless.

Like I said, nothing will come of this, but it's helping to reinforce North Korean beliefs. What belief? That South Korea is too scared to retaliate in a meaningful way. I don't know that that hypothesis isn't unwarranted, either, as SK has more to lose than NK, as all of their batteries are aimed right at Seoul and other population centers. At some point, a real line has to be drawn.

And that's why we need a robot army.

 

[DiebytheSword]

Even if this were simply about obtaining funds, North Korea has slowly tested and pushed back our and South Korea's threshold against limits on conventional attacks time and again. We went from, "If you cross this line, we'll **** you up." to "If you blow up our ships, we'll **** you up" to "If you keep detonating nukes, we'll **** you up....maybe". And every single time, nothing was done to them. Yeah, yeah. Sanctions and trade embargoes en mass, but that hasn't done anything to stall North Korean aggression. What separates the times North Korea shot missiles into the sea and no man's land, which were purely for show, and now is a military installation was actually bombarded this time. And to happen only days after we reveal North Korea has multiple uranium enrichment facilities? That's pretty ballsy. These guys are chess players. They're not planning for a confrontation today or tomorrow. They're in this for the long haul, and their greatest asset is the belief that they're relatively harmless.

Like I said, nothing will come of this, but it's helping to reinforce North Korean beliefs. What belief? That South Korea is too scared to retaliate in a meaningful way. I don't know that that hypothesis isn't unwarranted, either, as SK has more to lose than NK, as all of their batteries are aimed right at Seoul and other population centers. At some point, a real line has to be drawn.

And that's why we need a robot army.

It is about obtaining funds, its been done before. The last big nuke test? Free oil from us for the winter if they promised to stop work on their breeder reactor. As for your assertion, it is correct, there is more to this particular chess move than just a pay off, but both of us can actually be right here. By redrawing the line, they can achieve ever more heinous acts wich bring national attention back to them. If they rattle the same saber, the same way every time, it will stop grabbing our attention. Now they can claim that this is the new normal. Sinking South Korean vessels, shelling bases with population centers around them, etc. From what I understand, way many more civilians were injured than soldiers. They are hoping to bring Obama back to the table with this newly crossed line, and every time he ignores them they will try something worse.

I agree that the line needs to be drawn by allied forces next time. At some point, their atrocity level is not going to be palatable or acceptable.

 

[Snowm@n]

You understand North Korea struck first in the Korean War, right? And who did America invade? Our forces were sent to the South as a defensive measure against the North. Had there been no intervention, the South would have gotten rolled over because they were ridiculously unprepared for the juggernaut racing towards them.

Sure, and America came to rescue south korea without any personal gain right? I wonder why does UN even exist.

Do you know why we initially had so many bases in Europe? Or why we were allowed to stage nuclear-mother****ing-weapons there? Do you remember the Cold War. Yeah. Good times. Who was "the enemy" at the time? Who do you think the nukes were "aimed at"? Why would we aim nukes at countries we could destroy with conventional weapons, especially when there are bigger fish in the world who we'd deem worthier of being on the receiving end of our first strike response?

The cold war ended in 1991. In 2005, the US doubled the number of nuclear missiles in Europe to 480 units. In 2009 there were about 800 units. I heard the number enlarged some days before the last Nato meeting. Is that enough or do I have to go into more detail?
Why don't US just attack with nukes? Honestly Idk, problably because they are waiting for someone to shoot first maybe.

Are our hands clean? Nah. Everyone knows that. But to say we're as bad as DPRK is insane. We don't have the highest quality of life in the world, but it sure as **** isn't North Korea status either. Our government is ****ty, but it isn't North Korea ****ty.

You say we'd be better off without the ignorant. If you're representative of a substantial percentage of the human population, it'd be easy for me to agree. But disappearing an entire segment of humanity probably isn't the answer to our problems. Education is key.

I honestly don't know if that was an insult, but thanks for finding the key that I obviously was not even near finding. After all, what to do with uneducated people? I say KILLEM!

And yes, Korea is a s**ty country, but it's far from beeing the country that affects allmost the entire world by taking it's actions.

 

[Zeonix]

Sure, and America came to rescue south korea without any personal gain right? I wonder why does UN even exist.

What was gained either than an ally and a permanent presence in the region? Read up on the UNs role in the Korean War. You may be surprised to learn they backed the country you take issue with.

The cold war ended in 1991. In 2005, the US doubled the number of nuclear missiles in Europe to 480 units. In 2009 there were about 800 units. I heard the number enlarged some days before the last Nato meeting. Is that enough or do I have to go into more detail?
Why don't US just attack with nukes? Honestly Idk, problably because they are waiting for someone to shoot first maybe.

You're going to have to show some stats, because the most recent stats I've seen, as of 2009, indicate there are 200 tactical nukes in Europe. Also, there's no way we'd increase the number of nukes in Europe as a result of the last NATO meeting as the point of it all was to lessen the role of nukes, ban using nukes on non-nuclear wielding nations and nations that adhere to the rules on nuclear weaponry, and cease the production of nukes. That combined with our efforts to decrease the number of both our and Russia's nukes seems to say your data is either flawed, or old. If you have more information, feel free to go into more detail. I don't dislike learning new things.

Why haven't we used nukes? Because we're not retarded.

I honestly don't know if that was an insult, but thanks for finding the key that I obviously was not even near finding. After all, what to do with uneducated people? I say KILLEM!

I don't know what you're saying, but I demand an apology.

And yes, Korea is a s**ty country, but it's far from beeing the country that affects allmost the entire world by taking it's actions.

You may be underestimating the role of the proxy. Proxies have humbled two superpowers in the past. Its likely to happen again.

So you see, it all boils down to rolling up, rather than down. Equestrian riders shouldn't mount anything but their 4 legged beasts, because rockets are less approachable and forgiving. They also tend to have shorter lifespans. If, for some reason, an alligator were to attack the sky, what should we do? Not attack the sky, too? You tell me.

 

[Prozac]

I find the NK situation sad. These people never really get a choice. They're prisoners of the largest penitentiary on the planet. Insane, fraudulent propaganda is shoved down their throats on top of skewed facts and slander. And they're so determinedly cut-off from everything that they can never know whether their religion is telling them the true or a lie.

See what I did there?
The populace is brainwashed into being happy, and the actual emotion of happiness is real. They won't even doubt their own leader, who is more like a god then a human. So, even though they are living in horrible conditions, I don't feel that bad for them.. Because they are truely happy and ignorant to another standard of life. even if you would invade the country, drop a propaganda bomb on them, they probably wouldn't change.. Lack of knowledge helps a lot, lack of freedom of speech helps and their original brainwashing/propaganda does insanely much.
It actually resembles how religion tried/try to keep people dumb too, and they did such a good job that even today people follow them without much doubt.
I find it funny how a country is attacked because of it, but religious groups can go on through the same methods.

 

[Synth]

http://kotaku.com/5700983/south-korean-politician-on-korean-crisis-this-isnt-starcraft

I see.