Ninjutsu or Kung fu, that is the question

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It really, really bothers me when people bash Tae Kwon Do, especially because it's deserved in many cases. There are several different "masters" of tae kwon do that have essentially ruined a good martial art. Tae Kwon Do does tend to stick to the flashy, but there are still good masters out there that teach the proper style, and not the olympic sport. They are hard to find (impossible if you don't know what you're looking for) but I've had Tae Kwon Do as the core of my martial arts expericence for many years, and switched to many other styles after. I've never considered Tae Kwon Do second bannana to any of them.

Again, that may be because my Grand Master was an excellent teacher and showed many things that most belt mills won't show. He himself segregated his talented students from the ones he was just taking money from, and that gave me a unique perspective on the style and how its handled as a business and the serious art it should be.

All I'm trying to say is, never underestimate Tae Kwon Do. There are perhaps one or two good schools out of ten, but there are good schools.

All of that out of the way, the second martial art I picked up was Hun Gar. Tiger Claw White Crane is based on the five animals shaolin style I believe but has been carried forward in a different lineage or pedigree if you will. Tigerclaw did quite a bit to cover the holes in my hand techniques left by Tae Kwon Do. I followed that up with Hapkido, Tai Chi and greco roman wrestling. Then I moved on to taking techniques from many other styles, including bits of Isshinryu Karate, Muy Thai, Judo and Akido. Though I didn't specifically study in these schools, I cross trained with experts from those styles to pick up techniques that worked for me. I've also done some studying with the Navy SEAL's SCARS system.

The point is, you carry what you learn forward, you compliment it with what works with you as a fighter. My legs are relatively long for my height, my body is stocky and massive, so kicks transfer a lot of that mass into damage. TKD makes sense for me, so does Muy Thai. I'm fairly nimble, so Hapkido and Akido help in situations where I can't use my kicks. HG helps at a more medium range when I need to close in or move out further. They all complement my style. This is why I say one should never learn from an MMA School, one should study a style that suits them, and compliment it with other martial arts to form their own MMA. That's kind of what Bruce Lee did with JKD anyway ;)

A word on Ninjitsu. It's like TKD, you need to be careful about the schools you pick. Ask to sit in on classes before you commit, and see if you like what's being done. If he insists that you pay for the classes, by all means join in, but don't commit. You need to feel a school out before you stay. That really goes for any martial art. When it comes to some dicey styles like TKD and Ninjitsu, you need to be picky.

A final hint. Master Joe MacDonald might not be as good as Master Hiroshi Tanaka; I'm not saying to be dismissive of western masters, only to be more careful in selecting them. Many are the stories of a three year student dropping out and teaching martial arts as a master of his own style.
 
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Hmm, yes I see. The problem is I don't want to learn something too simplified, like Muhay Thai (no internal techniques or interesting philosophy of the mind and body like the Chinese Martial Arts)

Tell me fellas, how is the Chinese Martial arts for what I am looking for?

This is what im thinking of as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_chi_chuan
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xingyiquan

What do you guys think?

Still thanks :)
 
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Hmm, yes I see. The problem is I don't want to learn something too simplified, like Muhay Thai (no internal techniques or interesting philosophy of the mind and body like the Chinese Martial Arts)

Tell me fellas, how is the Chinese Martial arts for what I am looking for?

This is what im thinking of as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_chi_chuan
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xingyiquan

What do you guys think?

Still thanks :)
If you want to learn "interesting philosophy of the mind and body like the chinese martial arts", go to a library.

Knowing is half the battle!
 

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Hmm, yes I see. The problem is I don't want to learn something too simplified, like Muhay Thai (no internal techniques or interesting philosophy of the mind and body like the Chinese Martial Arts)

Tell me fellas, how is the Chinese Martial arts for what I am looking for?

This is what im thinking of as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_chi_chuan
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xingyiquan

What do you guys think?

Still thanks :)
Why do you want to learn an "Internal" Chinese Martial Art?
 
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Why do you want to learn an "Internal" Chinese Martial Art?
I'm pretty sure he just wants to set things on fire using chi.
 
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Or knock people out without touching them.
Or have their hearts explode when he actually does touch them.
 
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If you want to learn "interesting philosophy of the mind and body like the chinese martial arts", go to a library.

Knowing is half the battle!
If this is his goal, as well as cultivating his chi, he won't pull it off by reading books.

Though I must admit, you have a point in your sarcasm.

Deco, it sounds like you want a Chinese martial art. Any form of Kung Fu will give you foundation for what you are looking for. From those choices I would pick a style that complements the way you fight and the way you think. Picking the right martial art for you is more important that me telling you what martial art was right for me.
 
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Because I am already learning an offensive, exterior force based martial art. I want to learn something more internal, something in the style of a counter, smart usage of your energy, instead of learning another exterior force based martial art.
 

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The "Internal" Chinese Martial Arts are no different than the "External" Chinese Martial Arts. What you'll learn in an "Internal" Chinese Martial Art can be learned in an "External" Chinese Martial Art, albeit with a little more emphasis on body mechanics and sensitivity training.
 
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MC is correct, moreover, the combat applications of internal techniques will be taught in an external style, and the medicinal will be concentrated on in an internal one. You won't get what your looking for out of an internal style.
 
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after studying Aikido, the basics of karate, hapkido, and then being trained to REALLY fight ~(with mind AND body)~ by the royal marines.

military training > all.
 
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It really, really bothers me when people bash Tae Kwon Do, especially because it's deserved in many cases. There are several different "masters" of tae kwon do that have essentially ruined a good martial art. Tae Kwon Do does tend to stick to the flashy, but there are still good masters out there that teach the proper style, and not the olympic sport. They are hard to find (impossible if you don't know what you're looking for) but I've had Tae Kwon Do as the core of my martial arts expericence for many years, and switched to many other styles after. I've never considered Tae Kwon Do second bannana to any of them.

Again, that may be because my Grand Master was an excellent teacher and showed many things that most belt mills won't show. He himself segregated his talented students from the ones he was just taking money from, and that gave me a unique perspective on the style and how its handled as a business and the serious art it should be.

All I'm trying to say is, never underestimate Tae Kwon Do. There are perhaps one or two good schools out of ten, but there are good schools.

All of that out of the way, the second martial art I picked up was Hun Gar. Tiger Claw White Crane is based on the five animals shaolin style I believe but has been carried forward in a different lineage or pedigree if you will. Tigerclaw did quite a bit to cover the holes in my hand techniques left by Tae Kwon Do. I followed that up with Hapkido, Tai Chi and greco roman wrestling. Then I moved on to taking techniques from many other styles, including bits of Isshinryu Karate, Muy Thai, Judo and Akido. Though I didn't specifically study in these schools, I cross trained with experts from those styles to pick up techniques that worked for me. I've also done some studying with the Navy SEAL's SCARS system.

The point is, you carry what you learn forward, you compliment it with what works with you as a fighter. My legs are relatively long for my height, my body is stocky and massive, so kicks transfer a lot of that mass into damage. TKD makes sense for me, so does Muy Thai. I'm fairly nimble, so Hapkido and Akido help in situations where I can't use my kicks. HG helps at a more medium range when I need to close in or move out further. They all complement my style. This is why I say one should never learn from an MMA School, one should study a style that suits them, and compliment it with other martial arts to form their own MMA. That's kind of what Bruce Lee did with JKD anyway ;)

A word on Ninjitsu. It's like TKD, you need to be careful about the schools you pick. Ask to sit in on classes before you commit, and see if you like what's being done. If he insists that you pay for the classes, by all means join in, but don't commit. You need to feel a school out before you stay. That really goes for any martial art. When it comes to some dicey styles like TKD and Ninjitsu, you need to be picky.

A final hint. Master Joe MacDonald might not be as good as Master Hiroshi Tanaka; I'm not saying to be dismissive of western masters, only to be more careful in selecting them. Many are the stories of a three year student dropping out and teaching martial arts as a master of his own style.
That's interesting that you took up Hun Gar as a second form. I took TKD a while back and I figured if I was to get into Martial Arts that Hun Gar would be the other option I would take if I didn't get back into TKD. Now that I've filled out the last couple of years it sounds like my build is somewhat similar to yours though you're probably a little more stockier if I remember from the pictures. I also agree on taking different styles and making your own MMA as opposed to just going to an MMA school. You'll learn what your instructor took and what worked for him which can be drastically different than what works for you.

Don't knock the military hand to hand combat as well. From what I've seen it's very efficient. One of the main reasons why I'd never get into those though is that the main reason I'd take a martial art is for the art of it as well.

And as for you thinking about Tai Chi, it's interesting, but good luck finding a school in the US that doesn't focus on it as an exercise and put it in the same light as Yoga instead of focusing on the combative aspect of it.
 
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On the other hand if ill go to learn something like Muay Thai or Karate, im actually learning something similar to something I am already learning (TKD)

The Chinese martial arts have a different philosophy and concept, so that gives me a new aspect of my fighting.

Although im really connecting to the JKD philosophy and I think it is the best philosophy (for me at least) to learn and use.

I found a school which looks darn serious, the art is WuWei GungFu and it was created by Prof. Joseph Cowels, who studied JKD from Bruce Lee.

Joseph teached Eyal Coren WuWei and he teaches it in Israel (Eyal is Israeli)

WuWei is based on JKD and about the same(from what I read)

Any of you know this method?
 

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On the other hand if ill go to learn something like Muay Thai or Karate, im actually learning something similar to something I am already learning (TKD)
Taekwondo was largely based on Karate and Muay Thai is nothing like Taekwondo.

The Chinese martial arts have a different philosophy and concept, so that gives me a new aspect of my fighting.
Every Martial Art, regardless if it's Chinese, Japanese, etcetera will often have philosophies and concepts that differ from other Martial Arts.

Although im really connecting to the JKD philosophy and I think it is the best philosophy (for me at least) to learn and use.

I found a school which looks darn serious, the art is WuWei GungFu and it was created by Prof. Joseph Cowels, who studied JKD from Bruce Lee.

Joseph teached Eyal Coren WuWei and he teaches it in Israel (Eyal is Israeli)

WuWei is based on JKD and about the same(from what I read)

Any of you know this method?
Never heard of it.

If they do full-contact sparring, then go for it. If not, then find something else if you're still set on learning practical self-defense.
 
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Taekwondo was largely based on Karate and Muay Thai is nothing like Taekwondo.
Partially correct. Tae Kwon Do is indeed largely based on Karate, but Karate is also largely based in the older styles that comprised the original tae kwon do (pre-Japanese occupation). Esentially, they went to Japan after the japanese forbade learning of tae kwon do (which they co-opted into Karate), learned Karate, re-koreanized it, and got Tae Kwon Do back with heavy japanses influence. The two styles have many shared techniques because of this, not just because it's based on Karate.

Truth be told, they are so heavily intermixed its hard to say who originated what. Tae Kwon Do's kicking techniques are very different from Karates though, as are the ideas behind their use in combat.

I completely agree with your assertion about Muy Thai, they are completely different styles, and you can see this clearly in the only technique they share.

The roundhouse kick in TKD is much more articulated, having 4 chambers and a flollow through arc. The Muy Thai roundhouse has only 2, but is equally effective because of its angle of attack and similar follow through. The main difference between the two techniques is speed, recoil, angle of attack and ability to feint with it. Essentially most of the kick ;p
 
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The history of TKD is prettty long and convoluted. It's based off of a few ancient styles which may or may not be influenced in turn by chinese arts. It was then stolen by the Japanese, co-opted into Karate, and then the Koreans were forbidden from practicing it. They later went to Japan, learned Karate, and compared with survivng parts still kept in korea and basically reformed TKD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tae_Kwon_Do#History

As for chambers, they are quite literally the steps in a kick. Some people define it as a single position, but I don't personally like that definition.

This link talks about what I had said in detail. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundhouse_kick#Muay_Thai_method
 
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Hmm, is there a chance, that a school which is teaching JKD will teach MMA?

Like can it happen that 2 or more different JKD schools will teach different MMAs?

By the way, if I am already learning Taekwondo and it is similar to Karate, you think it will be pointless to go and learn Karate?
 
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