Ninjutsu or Kung fu, that is the question

[The Deco]

It's a long story and I don't know all the details. But, for the most part it had to do with politics. Both with the Chinese government and the Martial Artists themselves.

Would you believe me if I told you that Taijiquan (Tai Chi) used to be taught for the purpose of fighting rather than exercise?

Sure I will, it is purpose for fighting. Some arts were even used in wars. Of course it is made of fighting, it is based on harming (even though if you try to avoid conflict)

Why should not I?

 

[Barney]

And what is so damn special about Krav Maga?

Krav Maga in hebrew means in free translation Touching battle but I think if you will actually translate it so it makes sense id say something like Close-range battle.

I learned a very little bit of Krav Maga when I was in Israel and it was pretty effective. It's a pretty cool self defense system especially when you throw guns in the mix. I saw soldiers practice using physical strikes with m-16s. And being in Israel it shouldn't be too hard to learn either .

 

[MC]

Sambo is more of a sport than anything else.

There's various forms of Sambo, some of which are more focused on combat and self-defense than sport.

 

[Zeonix]

There's various forms of Sambo, some of which are more focused on combat and self-defense than sport.

None of which are nearly as effective in close combat as Krav Maga. Sambo is a combat-sport and self-defense system. Yeah, if you're fighting one on one against some random guy, you can armbar him or choke him out. That's fantastic. Krav Maga goes far beyond that.

Personally, I'd rather fight Fedor Emelianenko than an Israeli spec op.

 

[The Deco]

Well there is actually a series that 2 guys go to experience different martial arts.

They experienced Krav Maga once and 1 of them had a challenge in the end:

He is surrounded by elite trained Krav Maga Israeli forces and they come randomly, he doesn't know who, sometimes they went in couples. They had weapons, if he was hit 3 times he losses. He got hit twice, by elite Israeli agents/soldiers. And they came in RANDOMLY. And I thought we are good soldiers.

In another episode, with Judo, he had to win a guy by taking him down 3 times.

The one who takes the opponent down 3 times: wins.

He didn't take him down once and he lost because the opponent took him down 3 times.

1+1=2 makes Judo better than Krav Maga, no?

 

[Zeonix]

Well there is actually a series that 2 guys go to experience different martial arts.

They experienced Krav Maga once and 1 of them had a challenge in the end:

He is surrounded by elite trained Krav Maga Israeli forces and they come randomly, he doesn't know who, sometimes they went in couples. They had weapons, if he was hit 3 times he losses. He got hit twice, by elite Israeli agents/soldiers. And they came in RANDOMLY. And I thought we are good soldiers.

In another episode, with Judo, he had to win a guy by taking him down 3 times.

The one who takes the opponent down 3 times: wins.

He didn't take him down once and he lost because the opponent took him down 3 times.

1+1=2 makes Judo better than Krav Maga, no?

I want to say what I'm thinking right now, but I can't, so I'll just say that is silly logic.

 

[MC]

Sure I will, it is purpose for fighting. Some arts were even used in wars. Of course it is made of fighting, it is based on harming (even though if you try to avoid conflict)

Why should not I?

The Chinese Martial Arts were originally created and practiced for fighting. However, that was no longer the case in the mid-to-late 1900's. The Chinese Martial Arts were moved more towards exercise and competition rather than fighting.

Like I said, it's a long story.

And the Chinese Martial Arts that were used by the military during war were nothing like what you see being taught now.

None of which are nearly as effective in close combat as Krav Maga. Sambo is a combat-sport and self-defense system. Yeah, if you're fighting one on one against some random guy, you can armbar him or choke him out. That's fantastic. Krav Maga goes far beyond that.

How exactly does Krav Maga go "far beyond that"?

Also, Sambo was originally taught to the Russian military, then some time later it was also taught as a combative sport.

Well there is actually a series that 2 guys go to experience different martial arts.

They experienced Krav Maga once and 1 of them had a challenge in the end:

He is surrounded by elite trained Krav Maga Israeli forces and they come randomly, he doesn't know who, sometimes they went in couples. They had weapons, if he was hit 3 times he losses. He got hit twice, by elite Israeli agents/soldiers. And they came in RANDOMLY. And I thought we are good soldiers.

In another episode, with Judo, he had to win a guy by taking him down 3 times.

The one who takes the opponent down 3 times: wins.

He didn't take him down once and he lost because the opponent took him down 3 times.

1+1=2 makes Judo better than Krav Maga, no?

The show you're referring to is Human Weapon. And I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

 

[Zeonix]

How exactly does Krav Maga go "far beyond that"?

Also, Sambo was originally taught to the Russian military, then some time later it was also taught as a combative sport.

Sambo is glorified wrestling with some judo thrown in. Again, that's great if you're taking on some random guy, but I'm not about to wrestle someone when my life is at stake. If I get lucky and I'm able to choke them out, fantastic. I won't have to rely on luck with Krav Maga, simply because I'd be trained specifically to overcome and counter worst-case scenarios, be it against foes using blades, guns or whatever else someone can get their hands on. In Sambo, I'm not going to be able to take on 3, 4 or 5 guys at a time, because I only have so many limbs as a wrestler. Krav Maga doesn't force to me to hug the other guy and get on the ground with him. It's an option, for sure, which is great since you're bound to get taken down at some point, but being on the floor isn't a necessity. Sambo is all about the ground game. Krav Maga not so much.

 

[Deman]

Well there is actually a series that 2 guys go to experience different martial arts.

They experienced Krav Maga once and 1 of them had a challenge in the end:

He is surrounded by elite trained Krav Maga Israeli forces and they come randomly, he doesn't know who, sometimes they went in couples. They had weapons, if he was hit 3 times he losses. He got hit twice, by elite Israeli agents/soldiers. And they came in RANDOMLY. And I thought we are good soldiers.

In another episode, with Judo, he had to win a guy by taking him down 3 times.

The one who takes the opponent down 3 times: wins.

He didn't take him down once and he lost because the opponent took him down 3 times.

1+1=2 makes Judo better than Krav Maga, no?

Not that I know much about Krav Maga or even martial arts in general, but the goal of each is different. That's like putting someone who knows Judo up against someone who knows TKD and scoring based on who gets more kicks in.

 

[F-Man]

there are different types of sambo.

combat sambo is what the military uses, and it really doesnt have any rules. it isnt limited to just ground work, youre allowed to strike and all that. you can eve kick guys in the pills and do whatever else, but you cant use weapons. most guys wont go for cheapshots, but they are allowed. it is still based in the sambo roots where you go for throws to get points like in judo, and a submission will end the match. think of it as MMA with no actual rule set.

there there's sport sambo, which has all the rules and has no striking allowed. it's basically like the average grappling sport like bjj and judo. it's definitely much more like judo actually, except leglocks are allowed in sambo.

krav maga is definitely the most brutal style though. there really are no rules allowed in krav maga, it has no limits.



....i'd rather face off against an israeli special op than fedor though, heh. it'd probably be quicker and less painful with the israeli special op.

 

[Odin]

Wanna be a winner on the streets if someone comes at you and tries to kick your ass?


Carry a gun. Nobody can beat you in a fight if you always have your gun with you lol.



In all seriousness though. Whenever it comes to my personal fighting style, I use the jeet kune do philosophy. Since everybody you will encounter in a fight will fight differently, there is no ONE style dominates over all. It comes down to the situation of the fight. Personally though, if you want to be an overall well rounded fighter, and able to defend (because people who REALLY know how to fight, don't go around starting fights. That's usually for the people who just wanna prove to others that can fight, but in reality they cant.) yourself from anyone. Take some classes, or look into:

Aikido:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aikido
American Boxing:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing
Muay Thai:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muay_Thai
brazilian Jiu-jitsu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_Jiu-Jitsu'
(BJ Penn does brazilian jiu-jitsu)

Now, remember. This doesn't mean you have to master all these styles. But do some research in them. Learn how they work, and what they're affective the most against. Then combine it with the other styles, and from all of those combination's. Bring out your inner fighting style.

And if you want flashy moves..just do ****ing gymnastics lol

 

[The Deco]

I want to say what I'm thinking right now, but I can't, so I'll just say that is silly logic.

I was joking lol

 

[DaRkOwNs]

The Chinese Martial Arts were originally created and practiced for fighting. However, that was no longer the case in the mid-to-late 1900's. The Chinese Martial Arts were moved more towards exercise and competition rather than fighting.

Like I said, it's a long story.

And the Chinese Martial Arts that were used by the military during war were nothing like what you see being taught now.

most martial arts were used for the sole purpose of war and combat. since the invention of guns, theres no point in extensive teaching of martial arts in the army's.

if we're talking arts that were used to kill, hand to hand ninjitsu would probably be the most effective 1 on 1 art. ninjitsu isnt technically a martial art all on its own. it mostly consists of survival skills, but the hand to hand aspect of it generally relies on pressure points, bone weaknesses, and nerve strikes. those and the fabled "fist of death", which does actually exist. you really just pound a persons chest hard enough to stop their heart. doubt you'll be taught that, however.

if your talking deadly in general, krav maga is probably the way to go, as zeo said. 1 on 1 is a best case scenario that probably wont happen very often in the real world.

 

[The Deco]

I am starting to think ill go learn something hybrid.

I read the all wikipedia article about Jeet Kune Do.

Tell me please, what are the false aspects in JKD that I didn't find.

I really didn't find anything that is bad about JKD, not people's/professionals aspects about it in the internet nor anything I could find false. It looks really well balanced, fluid and more efficient than other arts.

So what you guys know about JKD, what is bad about it?(if there is anything bad) what is better? what is more efficient than other arts? What do you know generally about Jeet Kune Do?(stuff that maybe I didn't read in wikipedia)

I really wanna know if JKD will work for me. So any ideas?

 

[Skiwan]

Jeet kune do necessarily is about learning a few basics and developing your own style. I don't know much about martial arts mind you, but i have read 3 of Bruce Lee's books when I was younger, and basically his idea was to perfect simplicity and not confine yourself to any forms/kata's or routines and instead find a way that is right for you. There's plenty of techniques to learn for it, but the basic philosophy is not quite the same as other martial arts.

 

[The Deco]

Hmm, does it have any internal techniques and some moves taken from Tai Chi Quan or other internal chinese martial arts??

I notice that it has lots of the kickboxing, and I don't want to feel im learning muay thai...

 

[Odin]

JKD is not a style, its a philosophy

 

[DaRkOwNs]

well its basically as skiwan said. its a good modern day art if you want to learn, but its hard finding a good school for it. as with karate, JKD is used by alot of semi-trained *******s to easily gain money off of bruce lee's name. so you'll actually have to research extensively into the schools if you'd wanna learn that particular art.

other than that, JKD focuses alot on doing whatever it takes to defeat your opponent. alot of its styling is based off of fencing, since its simple and free-flowing.

edit: Jeet Kune Do is center around kung fu with bruce lee's philosophies, tactics, and strategies thrown in. so it should have both soft/hard and internal/external arts involved.

 

[Mastasurf]

Deco, are you looking for a "functional" martial art? Like a style that is actually useful for fighting?

Personally, I have a had some experience with Tae Kwon Do, Jujitsu, Krav Maga and martial arts tricking (the flashy stuff). Also, I boxed for a couple years during college and have been doing Muay Thai for the past year or so. Based on my experiences I can tell you that...

Krav Maga
Like everyone else has mentioned, this is brutal. The whole focus is dealing the most damage in the shortest amount of time. We're talking eye gouges and knees to the groin. Most of the techniques are taught from a neutral stance, meaning that you can be sitting there walking backwards with your hands raised like you don't want any trouble.


Boxing
IMO this is core. Boxing teaches you how to throw punches correctly, how to breathe, how to read the opponent, how to stay balanced and move. Also, the more you box the more you figure out that boxing isn't about your arms. It is about how you move you feet and hips.

Tae Kwon Do
Point sparring... There isn't too much more I can say.

Muay Thai
In practice Muay Thai is about as brutal as Krav Maga, minus the "dirty" techniques like eye gouging and groin kicks. Muay Thai turns your whole body into a weapon; legs, arms, elbows, and knees. Most of the focus is on balance, power, and attacking while defending/defending while attacking. For example, if you have good balance and know how to block a kick correctly your opponent will actually get hurt instead of you. The kicks are designed for maximum power and are delivered through the shin bones instead of the feet like most of the other styles. Unlike most traditional martial arts this style is good for both fighting in a ring and for whatever situation might present itself of the street. There are two downfalls to this style. 1. The Thais are ****ty boxers and 2. It doesn't cover any ground work.


If you're looking to take multiple style and are looking for martial arts that are focused on fighting I think that taking Muay Thai, Boxing, and Jujitsu will make you a well rounded fighter. If you're looking for straight up self defense then Krav Maga would be a safe bet. If you're looking for tricking then gymnastics mixed with any of the traditional martial arts should be fine.

 

[MC]

So what you guys know about JKD, what is bad about it?(if there is anything bad) what is better? what is more efficient than other arts? What do you know generally about Jeet Kune Do?

I haven't heard too many complaints about Jeet Kune Do. Though, finding a legitimate teacher is difficult. Either way, Jeet Kune Do itself is not a style or Martial Art, but a series of principles and concepts. However, as to what's taught depends on the teacher. In most cases, they teach a combination of Martial Arts rather than just one.

Hmm, does it have any internal techniques and some moves taken from Tai Chi Quan or other internal chinese martial arts??

Depends on the teacher.

And seeing as how you want to learn practical self defense, whatever style you decide to learn, make sure the school does full-contact sparring.

Also, if the school you want to join requires you to sign a contract, don't sign it without reading it thoroughly. I've heard all kinds of horror stories from those that didn't read the contract before signing. In most cases they were stuck having to attend a ****ty school for a few years before they could quit. And if they tried to quit before the end of their contract, the school would take legal action against them