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wel as long as te new meles easyer then readen te latest news post *gasp* so long *cough* then im good 
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DAYUM you think that new melee is too easy??
GOD pressing up down left and right at different speeds is HARD.
naw.. its alright, i might how complicated do you want it to be .. its fine the way it is, easy
GOD pressing up down left and right at different speeds is HARD.
naw.. its alright, i might how complicated do you want it to be .. its fine the way it is, easy
It shoul'nt be too easy though. It wouldnt be "fine the way it is, easy" becasue if you want to master a easy system, it will take you about what maybe a week. Then you will be able to beat somone who has played for lets say 2 months. Thats just unfair.
Like i said, big red words. We will make it harder / add more elements. Also I saw people who played esf beta 1.1 for 48 hours, but could beat people who played for 2 months. That's not really saying much
Going to the other thread to reply to your huge post, lol
Going to the other thread to reply to your huge post, lol
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Here's my two cents. I haven't posted here in a long while, but i've been watching the site, checking for updates on esf.
This melee system, in my opinion, is a refreshing and much needed breath of life for ESF. Sure, we haven't even played with it yet, but just the concept of the idea is impressive.
Now, to counter the "no skill" or "less skill" accusations that have been creeping in a bit.
Firstly, 1.1 melee, while requiring skill, was... well... very lackluster. It's not good when your said melee system actually eliminates good portions of the other modes of game play.
I remember months ago downloading people's 'duel' videos. The creams of the crop, the best of the best. What did I see? Can we say the same thing over and over?
ESF 1.1 is all about the teleporting, having a good ping, and flying around like crazy. It was a charge and dash, manic aiming game. It took skill to do, but in the end, that skill was very one sided. It had less to do with strategem as it did natural mouse wrist twitching prowess + ability to clearly see the images and your target on a computer screen. This doesn't mean that 1.1 was devoid of stradegy, but let's face it, half the people the pros play against simply don't possess the ungodly mouse twitching and reaction skills that they do.
That's like setting up a football game, and saying that the quarterback has to play the same kind of running game that those big, 300 pound linemen have to play. He can't just throw the ball to his small receivers... they all have to smash into each other. Of course, the 300 pounders are going to win, regardless of who is thinking what.
So I say that 1.2 will finally bring the challenge bar to a happier medium. It seems like the team is focusing on ensuring that while we have to go into automated combo modes, we will all be given several options and methods for blocking, countering, and trashing the enemy. This means more variety other than the classic "I smash you hard, and then demonstrate my awsome mouse twitching skills, hence utterly outclassing you physically... in terms of wrist power." And maybe, just maybe, we can finally have a game where fighting and beams are actually integrated, rather than seemingly seperate entities in 1.1. God forbid you try to use a beam in the middle of a good melee battle, you would get squashed.
Anyway, I think my post is long enough. I have faith 1.2 will finally improve the game that I learned to love over the summer. I haven't been playing lately, mainly because I'm just not much for getting destroyed in the mouse twitch department... not my style I guess. I look foward to this though. Cheers.
This melee system, in my opinion, is a refreshing and much needed breath of life for ESF. Sure, we haven't even played with it yet, but just the concept of the idea is impressive.
Now, to counter the "no skill" or "less skill" accusations that have been creeping in a bit.
Firstly, 1.1 melee, while requiring skill, was... well... very lackluster. It's not good when your said melee system actually eliminates good portions of the other modes of game play.
I remember months ago downloading people's 'duel' videos. The creams of the crop, the best of the best. What did I see? Can we say the same thing over and over?
ESF 1.1 is all about the teleporting, having a good ping, and flying around like crazy. It was a charge and dash, manic aiming game. It took skill to do, but in the end, that skill was very one sided. It had less to do with strategem as it did natural mouse wrist twitching prowess + ability to clearly see the images and your target on a computer screen. This doesn't mean that 1.1 was devoid of stradegy, but let's face it, half the people the pros play against simply don't possess the ungodly mouse twitching and reaction skills that they do.
That's like setting up a football game, and saying that the quarterback has to play the same kind of running game that those big, 300 pound linemen have to play. He can't just throw the ball to his small receivers... they all have to smash into each other. Of course, the 300 pounders are going to win, regardless of who is thinking what.
So I say that 1.2 will finally bring the challenge bar to a happier medium. It seems like the team is focusing on ensuring that while we have to go into automated combo modes, we will all be given several options and methods for blocking, countering, and trashing the enemy. This means more variety other than the classic "I smash you hard, and then demonstrate my awsome mouse twitching skills, hence utterly outclassing you physically... in terms of wrist power." And maybe, just maybe, we can finally have a game where fighting and beams are actually integrated, rather than seemingly seperate entities in 1.1. God forbid you try to use a beam in the middle of a good melee battle, you would get squashed.
Anyway, I think my post is long enough. I have faith 1.2 will finally improve the game that I learned to love over the summer. I haven't been playing lately, mainly because I'm just not much for getting destroyed in the mouse twitch department... not my style I guess. I look foward to this though. Cheers.
The only thing I wonder about is, after you autopunch the crap out of someone, what is there to forbid you from teleporting backwards, charging a beam, and blasting the hell out of your opponent? He'd be stunned anyway.
Other than that,it sounds good so far. (And it'll be pretty damn hard to make a script to autopush random directions, so no wonder some script kiddies will start complaining about the new system )
Other than that,it sounds good so far. (And it'll be pretty damn hard to make a script to autopush random directions, so no wonder some script kiddies will start complaining about the new system
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The truth is, we don't know if b1.2 melee is easy or not. Only those who work on the beta and test it know. All we can do right now is judge what we see and make suggestions.
from what we have seen we can judge that it is indeed easier than 1.1
there is little to no aiming involved, then the DDR steps take over.. hard stuff.
yes yes i know subject to change and all that good stuff....
there is little to no aiming involved, then the DDR steps take over.. hard stuff.
yes yes i know subject to change and all that good stuff....
BAM... hit the nail RIGHT on the head.Doctor Shaft said:
Why? because it isn't determined by mouse skill? oh...
None? hmm.. I think you must hit the person before you go into more detailed melee = aiming. There is NO difference between the aiming definition from 1.1 to 1.2, only the HITTING. and the difference there is HOLDING THE RIGHT MOUSE BUTTON. Oh the skill! I didn't like the charge swoop idea before, but now I'm beginning to think it's a good idea since it puts more Consequense on the swoop. You can't just fly around like a headless chicken anymore without reprecusions.
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Eh, can't make a real judgment, becuase I haven't tried it yet, but it looks great, I have faith in the team to tweak the system until it's perfect. I'm patiently awaiting for the rest of the "freshness" that the team will unleash with upcoming updates to the site.
Great job so far, looking good!
Great job so far, looking good!
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hmm, I think this new melee system is okey, well, i rather like beams, whatever...
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shadowsaiyan17 said:
nah, atleast not yet.
Yeah, if they did keep the evading part the way as its shown in the video, i think it will be too easy, but i dare say, judging by what pcjoe and others have said, it wont stay as easy. Besides, its wip.
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Aren't all fast paced death match games about mouse twitches? ESF has more strategy that people give it credit for and the current melee actually does have some depth to it. As of now the new melee isn't being added in its taking over. Yes, theres a cvar. As they have said there is a cvar for everything which I don't really agree with because you want some things to be universal between servers so that you don't have a different game for each server. I say this now so that I can voice my opinion not to put down the teams work because I very much apreciate what there doing with the developement of this mod.
Yes, that's very true. But I cannot escape the fact that there is something very unbalanced about the current melee system. I'm pretty good at FPS, but ESF lacks the level payingfield of most DM games. It's like I totally destroy n00bs or do NOTHING against good players. Its' sooooo lopsided.Scorcher2k said:
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If they are too easy to block, maybe you should just make them flash up faster? But you wouldn't want to do it so fast as to catch the player unawares, so maybe you should have some kind of signal that the 'DDR style blocking' is coming up, like, I dunno 'Are you ready?'.
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The new system looks good to me.
If you ask me, all those that cries how "too easy" it will be are just being whiny children because now they will have to start over with a new system and will have to work their way up again but this time with more challenges since more players will be able to do things easier but not to the extent where its a simple 2 key action thing.
I know a lot of players are used to the current system but this new 1 should add more blend to the current taste.
If you ask me, all those that cries how "too easy" it will be are just being whiny children because now they will have to start over with a new system and will have to work their way up again but this time with more challenges since more players will be able to do things easier but not to the extent where its a simple 2 key action thing.
I know a lot of players are used to the current system but this new 1 should add more blend to the current taste.
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The major flaw with 1.1 melee was exactly what Darksun mentioned... it was WAY too lopsided.
Stradegy and depth existed in the melee system? Yes. But again, I am of the opinion that the stradegy/depth credit given to 1.1 is a little too much. While I am impressed by some of the melee skills I always witness when playing the game, I must also mention that they never perform anything that I would consider 'unthinkable'. In fact, it's rare that any of my opponents really 'outhink' me in the battle, because at some point I end up fighting the exact same way they do. I'm just not as good at stopping on a dime, powering up, charging, teleporting, powering up, charging, rapidly all the time.
The learning curve isn't too steep... but the balance curve is. And unfortunately, a lot of the balance in the current melee system actually relies too much on natural, physical skills, as opposed to 'gaming' skills, or just stradegy. There's always a little bit of both in an fps, but ESF's current system is on where physical mouse ability is relied on way too much. I can either melee, or I die, simple as that.
This new system will allow the pros to keep their mouse twitching skills, but now they must play yet another kind of game in order to secure the win. Before, it was "I'm better at ramming myself into you" syndrome. This system, hopefully, will keep that element, but then allow the player that isn't so hot at 'ramming' to fight back. Heck, maybe now, with the 'combo' system, melee battles will be longer... yet shorter. YOu'll be able to inflict more damage per strike, rather than boring your inferior opponent to DEATH while you ram him around the map relentlessly... for a whopping 10 damage a shot. Or 15... didn't matter, it still took forever for an inferior opponent to even die, much less pick up on what was going on.
1.1 was fun for some people... and that's great. But if there was any point about the game that made many people leave it, or make servers that said 'no melee', it was the fact that once we entered the wide realm of meleeing, it became the 'headless chicken' assault game. A hard game to be sure... I don't compete nearly as well in it as some others, but unfortunately neither do a lot of the crowds.
And on a complete tangeant... it is Dragonball Z. I've been waiting and waiting for a mod where I actually watch my characters do fight sequences instead of just the typical "football tackle". You'd think a bunch of godlike martial artists would actually possess the skills to counter such aggressive attacks, other than meeting it with force against force. :laff: It may be automated, but hey, it's still a football tackle, only with eye candy and a little poker playing. Now that's enjoyable.
Stradegy and depth existed in the melee system? Yes. But again, I am of the opinion that the stradegy/depth credit given to 1.1 is a little too much. While I am impressed by some of the melee skills I always witness when playing the game, I must also mention that they never perform anything that I would consider 'unthinkable'. In fact, it's rare that any of my opponents really 'outhink' me in the battle, because at some point I end up fighting the exact same way they do. I'm just not as good at stopping on a dime, powering up, charging, teleporting, powering up, charging, rapidly all the time.
The learning curve isn't too steep... but the balance curve is. And unfortunately, a lot of the balance in the current melee system actually relies too much on natural, physical skills, as opposed to 'gaming' skills, or just stradegy. There's always a little bit of both in an fps, but ESF's current system is on where physical mouse ability is relied on way too much. I can either melee, or I die, simple as that.
This new system will allow the pros to keep their mouse twitching skills, but now they must play yet another kind of game in order to secure the win. Before, it was "I'm better at ramming myself into you" syndrome. This system, hopefully, will keep that element, but then allow the player that isn't so hot at 'ramming' to fight back. Heck, maybe now, with the 'combo' system, melee battles will be longer... yet shorter. YOu'll be able to inflict more damage per strike, rather than boring your inferior opponent to DEATH while you ram him around the map relentlessly... for a whopping 10 damage a shot. Or 15... didn't matter, it still took forever for an inferior opponent to even die, much less pick up on what was going on.
1.1 was fun for some people... and that's great. But if there was any point about the game that made many people leave it, or make servers that said 'no melee', it was the fact that once we entered the wide realm of meleeing, it became the 'headless chicken' assault game. A hard game to be sure... I don't compete nearly as well in it as some others, but unfortunately neither do a lot of the crowds.
And on a complete tangeant... it is Dragonball Z. I've been waiting and waiting for a mod where I actually watch my characters do fight sequences instead of just the typical "football tackle". You'd think a bunch of godlike martial artists would actually possess the skills to counter such aggressive attacks, other than meeting it with force against force. :laff: It may be automated, but hey, it's still a football tackle, only with eye candy and a little poker playing. Now that's enjoyable.
That sums up my problem with the current Melee system. In DMC, I have pretty good hand-eye coordination. But there are times when a friend who's mouse skills weren't so hot could beat me based on other skills. Althought there are some things in the new Melee that I (at the moment) would like to see change, I think i'ts going in the right direction. I think people are confusing ease with playability. I can pick up Street Fighter and learn to play correctly in a matter of hours, because the gameplay is nearly perfect. ESF is a freekin chore. Never before have I seen a game with this many complaints and explanations on how to play (Melee) correctly.Doctor Shaft said:
I think it's funny that people complain about a system being too easy when it changes for EVERYONE. I dunno.. It kinda proves that the game is lopsided the way it is. The people that happen to be gifted at it want to win without a challange. Now that everyone has a chance it's all the sudden "too easy".