korean history is over 10,000 years!?

[hellrider]

What is a civilization? Where does the line between a nation and a civilization diverge? When does a nation become a civilization? What is the difference between a nation and a civilization?

You could make a fairly strong argument for America being a civilization, as well as almost any other country on the earth.


As for Korea suggesting that their civilization is 10,000 years old, I'd like to believe that it's a ridiculous claim. Any civilization that existed there most likely did not consider themselves Korean.

United State of America is more like part of the modern "Western Civilization" and Western Civilization had been last 700 years after renaissance. America is part of the Western Civilization. (greek and Italian are considerly not part of Western Civilization. only France, Germany, Great Britian, Holand and Sweden are part of it.)

PS: russian and serbian, turkish are not part of it too

and yet Asian were never been civilized before. chinese claim they have 4000 years of history but they aint. they can only tell lies and make fake evidence.

 

[MC]

United State of America is more like part of the modern "Western Civilization" and Western Civilization had been last 700 years after renaissance. America is part of the Western Civilization.

Wester Civilization/Culture has existed long before the Renaissance.

(greek and Italian are considerly not part of Western Civilization. only France, Germany, Great Britian, Holand and Sweden are part of it.)

The Greeks and Italians are considered part of Western Culture/Civilization. The Greeks heavily influenced Western Culture/Civilization through having conceived philosophy, science, democracy, etcetera. The Italians for having European origins (and being part of Europe), not to mention Italy is where the Renaissance began.

PS: russian and serbian, turkish are not part of it too

Russia and Serbia are considered Eastern Civilizations/Cultures (if I remember correctly). And Turkey is a mix of the two.

and yet Asian were never been civilized before. chinese claim they have 4000 years of history but they aint. they can only tell lies and make fake evidence.

China is one of the world's oldest civilizations.

 

[Dzamija]

Vote Dan! - "Native Americans don't count!"

I was referring to the european immigrants that slaughtered the masses of those Native Americans. Actually I was just implying that no matter how wrong that article may be, Korea's civilization will still be older than USA's.

thanks to you, I was able to discontinue the ban. and also because you made me got banned by eon.(eon favors you doesnt mean I will give a damn too.)

and america isnt a civilization.....it is just a state and political group, the name of the region.

and as a country korea was form at 1948 after world war 2.


PS: I wonder have you ever pass the geography class before?

That's like saying that jews are a 50-year old civilization becuase Israel was founded after World War II. And I've learned more geography in class than your dad will ever teach you, hellrider.

I'm guessing you're homeschooled.

EDIT: Just to support my claims:

The history of Korea began with the legendary founding of Gojoseon in 2333 BCE by Dangun. Limited linguistic evidence suggests probable Altaic origins of these people, whose northern Mongolian steppe culture absorbed migration and trade with the peoples of Manchuria and China. The adoption of the Chinese writing system ("hanja" in Korean) in the 2nd century BC, and Buddhism in the 4th century AD, had profound effects on the Three Kingdoms of Korea. Koreans later passed on a modified version of these cultural advances to Japan.<sup class="reference" id="_ref-0">[1]</sup><sup class="reference" id="_ref-1">[2]</sup><sup class="reference" id="_ref-2">[3]</sup><sup class="reference" id="_ref-3">[4]</sup>

2333 BC, dude. That's 4341 years ago. Not far from Sumeria, ancient Mesopotamia's oldest country (you know, where those muslims of yours live), which was founded approximatelly 7300 years ago.
<sup id="_ref-3" class="reference"></sup>

 

[hellrider]

Wester Civilization/Culture has existed long before the Renaissance.


The Greeks and Italians are considered part of Western Culture/Civilization. The Greeks heavily influenced Western Culture/Civilization through having conceived philosophy, science, democracy, etcetera. The Italians for having European origins (and being part of Europe), not to mention Italy is where the Renaissance began.


Russia and Serbia are considered Eastern Civilizations/Cultures (if I remember correctly). And Turkey is a mix of the two.


China is one of the world's oldest civilizations.

uhm...greek and italian/ span were part of the latino civilization. western civilization was Germanic civilization. dont mess with that.

and china wasnt the one of the oldest civilization. the theory was created based on the asian nationalism that attemp to against the west idealogy. especially that theory was run by the government.

I was referring to the european immigrants that slaughtered the masses of those Native Americans. Actually I was just implying that no matter how wrong that article may be, Korea's civilization will still be older than USA's.

as I know the native had been extincted before the white immigrant arrived on america.

That's like saying that jews are a 50-year old civilization becuase Israel was founded after World War II. And I've learned more geography in class than your dad will ever teach you, hellrider.

I'm guessing you're homeschooled.

who is homeschooled? jews were part of the near east civilization. and to dissapoint you. we were talking about lifetime of country for god sake. yes jews only last 60 years.

EDIT: Just to support my claims:


2333 BC, dude. That's 4341 years ago. Not far from Sumeria, ancient Mesopotamia's oldest country (you know, where those muslims of yours live), which was founded approximatelly 7300 years ago.
<sup id="_ref-3" class="reference"></sup>

they are fake.

 

[sub]

Enlighten us. Why are they fake? You need to post evidence.

 

[MC]

uhm...greek and italian/ span were part of the latino civilization. western civilization was Germanic civilization. dont mess with that.

Greeks and Italians aren't spanish/latino. Both the Greeks and Italians are their own ethnic group, they aren't Spanish or Latino.

"Western Civilization/Culture" applies to countries/continents that are of European origin. And the Greeks greatly contributed to what is now known as "Western Civilization/Culture".

and china wasnt the one of the oldest civilization. the theory was created based on the asian nationalism that attemp to against the west idealogy. especially that theory was run by the government.

No, China is one of the world's oldest civilizations.

China is a cultural region, an ancient civilization, and a national or multinational entity in East Asia. The civilization is one of the world's oldest, consisting of states and cultures dating back more than six millennia.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China

as I know the native had been extincted before the white immigrant arrived on america.

Native Americans aren't extinct.

they are fake.

No they're not but I'll just pick Korea since this argument's about Korea.

The history of Korea stretches from Lower Paleolithic times to the present. The earliest known Korean pottery dates to around 8000 BCE, and the Neolithic period began before 6000 BCE, followed by the Bronze Age around 2500 BCE. The Gojoseon (Old Joseon) kingdom was founded in 2333 BCE, eventually stretching from the peninsula to much of Manchuria. By 3rd Century BCE, it disintegrated into many successor states.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Korea

 

[Hibiki]

The earliest Humans found so far, that just means that Africa is where the oldest human fossils have been found, no one looks for fossils underwater, and quite frankly we've only looked for human fossils where we suppose that humans settled, so really we don't know for sure, that's just the best we've come up with so far.

Uhh pretty much every ancestry can be traced back to Africa and no further. Which just so happens to coincide with around the same time we saw current species of human separate from the rest of the sapiens. People never lived under the ocean and the ocean floor was never above land. You can't have oceanic crust above the continental crusts. Earths do not work that way.

So yeah we pretty much do know.

 

[Dzamija]

uhm...greek and italian/ span were part of the latino civilization. western civilization was Germanic civilization. dont mess with that.

Greeks.......LATINO? Wow.....just.....wow......

and china wasnt the one of the oldest civilization. the theory was created based on the asian nationalism that attemp to against the west idealogy. especially that theory was run by the government.

China (traditional Chinese: 中國; simplified Chinese: 中国; Hanyu Pinyin: Zhōngguó <small>(help·info)</small>; Tongyong Pinyin: Jhongguó; Wade-Giles (Mandarin): Chung¹kuo²) is a cultural region, an ancient civilization, and a national or multinational entity in East Asia. The civilization is one of the world's oldest, consisting of states and cultures dating back more than six millennia.

Six millenia is 6000 years, just letting you know. And again, I believe Wikipedia more than I believe you, because all I'm hearing is someone, who's obviously not informed, claiming something that's absurd, with no evidence to back it up.

as I know the native had been extincted before the white immigrant arrived on america.

So who killed them?

they are fake.

Until you prove me wrong that Korea's civilization is 4340 years old, I'll take Wikipedia's word over yours.

 

[hellrider]

Greeks.......LATINO? Wow.....just.....wow......

Six millenia is 6000 years, just letting you know. And again, I believe Wikipedia more than I believe you, because all I'm hearing is someone, who's obviously not informed, claiming something that's absurd, with no evidence to back it up.

Until you prove me wrong that Korea's civilization is 4340 years old, I'll take Wikipedia's word over yours.

ok I dont give a damn about that stupid wikipedia. ok then I could change the information in that website and make false sinal for everyone who view the site. and I must mention it. wiki was originally run by asian corperation

fine let's make this serious. they were actually dig some of junk from the remain and claim that are the evident or proof that they having 6,000 yrs history as civilization. but I had a question. was there any neutral standard scientist or archeologist there? any western media were there? who knows what were behind it. if the evident were truth why were they afraid to hand it to the standard research department? they have to show the evident for what they've stated. plus these article are still in debate. why is it on wiki??why should we have to believe it? how can we believe that the evident found in the placeby their own people? if it is true thanwhy couldnt they hand over that evidence? why?

middle easter may be our enemy, but still they never tell lie. but asian...if you remeber what was happanned in world cups of 2002. asian are always been cheater. a home team that use the power of government by control the referee and cheat to win the game is no atittude at all.

Enlighten us. Why are they fake? You need to post evidence.

this is. but not completely true.
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/china/ancient_china/shang.html

according to the shang period, the earliest dated was around 3000 years ago(as a city). included the early cultural remain is about 1300~1200bc

we dont know that was a unified state or just a cultural region with amount of city state. but those ridiculous asian are claim that they have the history even eariler than western or middle east? (japanese had even claimed that they were the first civilization that build the pyramid...wow)

I wonder they are attemp to encourage their people by making fake history. but seems like they are doing it.


PS: and about that continent of mu, it is never be prove. science fiction(or you telling me that those asian were evolved from the people in that continent? then that means asian were alien after all)

So who killed them?

the native were extincted due the natural process

 

[MC]

ok I dont give a damn about that stupid wikipedia. ok then I could change the information in that website and make false sinal for everyone who view the site. and I must mention it. wiki was originally run by asian corperation

No. Wikipedia was created by Jimmy Wales and Larry Sanger. It's owned by the Wikimedia Foundation which is located in San Fransisco, California. It was never ran by an Asian corporation. And those who intentionally provide false information are banned from Wikipedia and the changes the said individual made are removed/reverted.

fine let's make this serious. they were actually dig some of junk from the remain and claim that are the evident or proof that they having 6,000 yrs history as civilization. but I had a question. was there any neutral standard scientist or archeologist there? any western media were there? who knows what were behind it. if the evident were truth why were they afraid to hand it to the standard research department? they have to show the evident for what they've stated. plus these article are still in debate. why is it on wiki??why should we have to believe it? how can we believe that the evident found in the placeby their own people? if it is true thanwhy couldnt they hand over that evidence? why?

Why should we believe you? You have yet to provide any reliable evidence to back up your ridiculous claims.

middle easter may be our enemy, but still they never tell lie. but asian...if you remeber what was happanned in world cups of 2002. asian are always been cheater. a home team that use the power of government by control the referee and cheat to win the game is no atittude at all.

No, they didn't cheat during the 2002 World Cup.

this is. but not completely true.
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/china/ancient_china/shang.html

according to the shang period, the earliest dated was around 3000 years ago(as a city). included the early cultural remain is about 1300~1200bc

The Xia Dynasty was China's first historically recorded dynasty. The Shang Dynasty was the second. The Xiah Dynasty was from 2100 BC - 1600 BC. The Shang Dynasty was from 1600 BC - 1046 BC.

PS: and about that continent of mu, it is never be prove. science fiction(or you telling me that those asian were evolved from the people in that continent? then that means asian were alien after all)

What does the lost continent of Mu have anything to do with this discussion?

the native were extincted due the natural process

No. Once again, Native American's aren't extinct.

 

[hellrider]

Why should we believe you? You have yet to provide any reliable evidence to back up your ridiculous claims.

ok. tell was there any western media or archeologist here? if not then the information wouldnt be consider correct unless they been prove by our research department.

The Xia Dynasty was China's first historically recorded dynasty. The Shang Dynasty was the second. The Xiah Dynasty was from 2100 BC - 1600 BC. The Shang Dynasty was from 1600 BC - 1046 BC.

xia was considerly a legendary dynasty in chinese history. and it was not prefer by the western historian and archeologist yet. also was it a dynasty or just a name of region is still debate. even shang is still a question mark yet.

and according to what you claim was officially from chinese historian. yes they claimed xia was around in between 2000BC~ 1600BC. but western archeologist couldnt find any evidence to prove it exist. not to mention that it is a region/state or a dynasty(a unified kingdom).
plus the western archeologist couldnt able to find anything older than 1400bc in china yet.

like I said before. if a evidence found by the local resident it wouldnt be objective.

PS: the first timeline historical record was in 807 bc when zhou kingdom rebel by its civilean.


I guess that's what you are believe

SOURCE:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Records_of_the_Grand_Historian

 

[MC]

ok. tell was there any western media or archeologist here? if not then the information wouldnt be consider correct unless they been prove by our research department.

Yes there was and probably still is.

xia was considerly a legendary dynasty in chinese history. and it was not prefer by the western historian and archeologist yet. also was it a dynasty or just a name of region is still debate. even shang is still a question mark yet.

There is criticism as to whether the Xia Dynasty actually existed, but there has been evidence to give credit to it's existence.

and according to what you claim was officially from chinese historian. yes they claimed xia was around in between 2000BC~ 1600BC. but western archeologist couldnt find any evidence to prove it exist. not to mention that it is a region/state or a dynasty(a unified kingdom).
plus the western archeologist couldnt able to find anything older than 1400bc in china yet.

See my previous statement.

 

[hellrider]

Yes there was and probably still is.


There is criticism as to whether the Xia Dynasty actually existed, but there has been evidence to give credit to it's existence.


See my previous statement.

I guess that's what you were believe

The Xia Dynasty was China's first historically recorded dynasty. The Shang Dynasty was the second. The Xiah Dynasty was from 2100 BC - 1600 BC. The Shang Dynasty was from 1600 BC - 1046 BC.

SOURCE:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Records_of_the_Grand_Historian

according to the source china aleast have 4600 years of history. but no one had ever admit that.

there is another evidence that prove this entire operation is ran by the government.

SOURCE:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xia_Shang_Zhou_Chronology_Project

 

[MC]

I don't see the point you're trying to make with that Wikipedia article. If anything, it further discredits your claims.

 

[hellrider]

I don't see the point you're trying to make with that Wikipedia article. If anything, it further discredits your claims.

well most of information that was not correct. but those inccorect information are holding with licence while it was still debate. and I must admit it is a bug in the wiki system. (also depands on the number of the donation.)

well anyone can edit information in wikipedia, it just the metter of fact you have licence that means either it is correct or not and wikipedia only regard that you have the licence or not. you take all if you got earlier than everyone.

 

[MC]

Yes, everyone can edit information on Wikipedia. But realize that Wikipedia has very strict guidelines that must be followed. And trust me, there's hundreds of debates a day on many different articles regarding neutrality and notability (just to name a couple). I spend quite a bit of time there going through articles and seeing if any of them needs modifications or tags added to the header. So, I'm more than well-aware of what Wikipedia is and how easy it can be edited.

 

[Chakra-X]

I just have a couple of questions for hellrider.

1) How old do you think China actually is?

2) Did you say that you believe the Jews have only existed for 60 years?

3) And do you believe that the Western Civilization stems from Germany?

Also, America is a civilization. The term "Western Civilization" is just a big umbrella term that encompasses life styles/values that are similar to America's.

Noun

* S: (n) civilization, civilisation (a society in an advanced state of social development (e.g., with complex legal and political and religious organizations)) "the people slowly progressed from barbarism to civilization"
* S: (n) civilization, civilisation (the social process whereby societies achieve an advanced stage of development and organization)
* S: (n) culture, civilization, civilisation (a particular society at a particular time and place) "early Mayan civilization"
* S: (n) refinement, civilization, civilisation (the quality of excellence in thought and manners and taste) "a man of intellectual refinement"; "he is remembered for his generosity and civilization"

And here is a sources from the good ol' US of A that states how far back China goes. Pure American source.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html

And this one is even better.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/18902.htm

China is the oldest continuous major world civilization, with records dating back about 3,500 years

 

[hellrider]

Yes, everyone can edit information on Wikipedia. But realize that Wikipedia has very strict guidelines that must be followed. And trust me, there's hundreds of debates a day on many different articles regarding neutrality and notability (just to name a couple). I spend quite a bit of time there going through articles and seeing if any of them needs modifications or tags added to the header. So, I'm more than well-aware of what Wikipedia is and how easy it can be edited.

well let's say they only regarding on the licence and copyright. and mostly happan in asian article. because the article like chinese history and korean history were extremely non common in the early year(wiki was very non common in the first few year.). gaven those asian nationalist opportunity to made such article. in this rate I admit they(asian) are smarter than I expecting. they did pretty well to fool many of people.

well there are alot of evidence in the library and prove those are just lie. traditional archeologist are still refuse that xia's existence yet.

I just have a couple of questions for hellrider.

1) How old do you think China actually is?

2) Did you say that you believe the Jews have only existed for 60 years?

3) And do you believe that the Western Civilization stems from Germany?

Also, America is a civilization. The term "Western Civilization" is just a big umbrella term that encompasses life styles/values that are similar to America's.




And here is a sources from the good ol' US of A that states how far back China goes. Pure American source.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html

And this one is even better.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/18902.htm

first as a country china may only last 50 years of lifetime
as a civilization it wouldnt supass over 2800 ~3000 years around.

and yet modern western civilization was devolop from germany during "Protestant Reformation" in 1500 ad. as a true christain that is where we all came from. Renaissance is just the aftermath.

China is the oldest continuous major world civilization, with records dating back about 3,500 years

it does not continuous. after the the mongol/manchurian invasion the original chinese culture had shred away. cultural revolution just made it worst. afte that the chinese civilization completely replace by manchurian style and russian culture as we seem today.

if that possible you said then those egyptian would claim the same ridiculous theory as those asian stated. but still no metter how hard they pretending to be they wont be the same. (those muslim egyptian were pretty much the same as those asian. pretending something they aint is kinda...weird! but they still pretending to be the acceint egyptian. how funny it is.)

PS: chinese history only around 2800 years as historical record.

 

[MC]

This is a little off-topic, but how did this discussion go from Korea to China?

And what difference does it make as to how old China or Korea are?

 

[hellrider]

This is a little off-topic, but how did this discussion go from Korea to China?

And what difference does it make as to how old China or Korea are?

actually they all look same to me. they are all asian.