"I Believe" - Florida's Christian License Plate

[Chakra-X]

The whole push for intelligent design in schools was heavily backed by people who had a religious agenda, be it blatant or hidden.

And I consider intelligent design more of a philosophy than a science. How do you test whether there is a superior being or not? If anything, it's a gap/place holder. Evolution does not explain why life occurs, but how. Is it plausible that a higher being created all the laws of physics, matter, etc? Sure. But that's just throwing ideas around.

For instance, I could start an idea called "The Great Transition". I believe that an alien race has been monitoring us, watching our civilizations grow, and when the Sun is about to explode, the alien race will transfer us to another planet to continue living. Is it plausible? Yep. But it's just a place holder for what humans may have to go through when the sun explodes/Earth ends. I can not test or analyze this at all. The same is basically the same for intelligent design.

 

[Brim]

Ignoring the argument that is going no where



I agree with J-Dude that PC oversteps its bounds at times, and something like saying if you have a license plate that says I heart Jesus, every other major religion (ps who decides which religion is major enough to pass for their own plates? Probably dependent upon how many people of said religion ask for one) needs to have one of their own just because someone else wants them is ludicrous.

This is the way it works, might not be how it's supposed to work, but it is. The more people who want it, the more people who get it. That IS representative democracy, because when an idea represents a larger majority, it is what is gone with.

If more people vote for their delegates to vote for Obama, he wins the election

If more people want Jesus plates, the plates get made


It is the simple economic theory of supply and demand

 

[J-Dude]

The whole push for intelligent design in schools was heavily backed by people who had a religious agenda, be it blatant or hidden.

And I consider intelligent design more of a philosophy than a science. How do you test whether there is a superior being or not? If anything, it's a gap/place holder. Evolution does not explain why life occurs, but how. Is it plausible that a higher being created all the laws of physics, matter, etc? Sure. But that's just throwing ideas around.

For instance, I could start an idea called "The Great Transition". I believe that an alien race has been monitoring us, watching our civilizations grow, and when the Sun is about to explode, the alien race will transfer us to another planet to continue living. Is it plausible? Yep. But it's just a place holder for what humans may have to go through when the sun explodes/Earth ends. I can not test or analyze this at all. The same is basically the same for intelligent design.

Well sure, a lot of religious people would favor this idea in the hopes of bridging science and religion instead of keeping them seperate. There are a great number of scientists however, who favor the theory mainly because they scientifically believe it to be a more likely solution than evolution, so let's not discredit their opinions as a religious cling if this is not the case. And even so, scientists trying to barr the religious from taking part in another branch of scientific research merely based on what they believe IS suppression of freedom.

As to testing I.D., it might be possible to find common genetic "fingerprints" which would suggest this. This crosses over with UFOlogy, but ancient evidence of extraplanetary involvement with our species would also be valid. Now, I'll admit, this sort of stuff is the underdog, the long-shot, "tossing ideas around" as you said, but really, isn't that how science works? Throwing ideas around? Hypothesizing? There are those, whole committees apparently, who would disagree, and call it "pseudoscience". Well, I define science as the search for truth, and I think a search for truth is definitely present in these categories. After all, majority doesn't make anyone right or wrong. Hehe, I mean, I still disagree that Pluto isn't a planet.

 

[Zeonix]

You should watch "Expelled" by Ben Stein. Really eye-opening.

That tells you everything you need to know. Anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about or referring to should look up some of the criticisms (and there are thousands, I'm sure) of this...uh..."documentary".

 

[MC]

That tells you everything you need to know. Anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about or referring to should look up some of the criticisms (and there are thousands, I'm sure) of this...uh..."documentary".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expelled:_No_Intelligence_Allowed

 

[SailorAlea]

I'm sorry, but the dismissal of Intelligent Design as pseudoscience is generally because the scientific community doesn't want any competing theories against the widely accepted, and flawed, theory of evolution.

Again, you see flaws where basically the entire scientific community sees enormous proof. Again, science is about constantly changing and adapting a theory in the face of evidence.

Since "Intelligent Design" makes no testable hypotheses and offers no proof, it's not science. Simple as that.

Intelligent Design doesn't have to refer to a deity, it may simply mean that life on our world was planted by a higher interstellar race, which is NOT nonsensical if you are truly open to ideas.

Yes, and life could've been pooed out of the sky. But where's your PROOF? Science is about EMPIRICAL OBSERVATION.

You I see are one of the many who would do little else but go about your business if certain ways of thinking were legally prohibited.

And you listen to blind dogma because it's in line with your faith. Unlike you (apparently), my mind is open--proof and observable fact ARE able to change MY mind, whereas you're not even taking it into account. The global scientific community as well as the federal courts have agreed "Intelligent Design" is religious dogma, and not science.

On topic, it seems rediculous that we have to include every religion or no religion at all on something as miniscule as a license plate. I for one think political correctness has made freedom of speech and expression a mockery of what it was intended to be.

This is a religious subject--naturally religion is going to be involved. The point is that the state choosing to embrace only one religion makes that the de facto State religion, and this country was founded on separating religion FROM government.

 

[J-Dude]

That tells you everything you need to know. Anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about or referring to should look up some of the criticisms (and there are thousands, I'm sure) of this...uh..."documentary".

Yeah? Well Michael Crichton's "State of Fear" was met with similar levels of counter-argument, and who ended up being right after all? ^_^


@SAlea: Proof proof, bla bla bla. Again we hit that same wall that folks here never seem able to pass. In my mind, you're the biased one. This forum is proof of single-dimensional beings if you ask me. I've said my bit, and I'm dropping this conversation before it turns nasty. God bless :love:

 

[SailorAlea]

@SAlea: Proof proof, bla bla bla. Again we hit that same wall that folks here never seem able to pass. In my mind, you're the biased one. This forum is proof of single-dimensional beings if you ask me. I've said my bit, and I'm dropping this conversation before it turns nasty. God bless :love:

I really don't see how I'm the biased one when you're always the one to "rush to the aid of" anything that promotes Christianity, regardless of whether it's a good or bad idea.

I can't actually believe anyone with a rational mind could not see "intelligent design" for anything but what it is--creationism. In "my mind," you're a one-dimensional mindless promoter of Christianity. You've essentially just admitted that your beliefs have nothing to do with observable proof, which is an admission completely contrary to the scientific mindset--and I truly pity that.

 

[ZeroNightmare]

Ben Stein is a prick. And whats the flaw in the theory of evolution? Also do you believe in aliens?

 

[J-Dude]

I really don't see how I'm the biased one when you're always the one to "rush to the aid of" anything that promotes Christianity, regardless of whether it's a good or bad idea.

I can't actually believe anyone with a rational mind could not see "intelligent design" for anything but what it is--creationism. In "my mind," you're a one-dimensional mindless promoter of Christianity. You've essentially just admitted that your beliefs have nothing to do with observable proof, which is an admission completely contrary to the scientific mindset--and I truly pity that.

Likewise, I pity your inability to comprehend the true wonderful nature of faith. You and I value very different things, but that of course goes without saying. It's strange that you speak of me as though I sought to trick and tempt people, talking of my promotion of my faith. But my friend, this can't be farther from the truth! My actions are both in the defense of my kin worldwide who have had their eyes opened, and in the hopes of rescuing our prodigal brothers and sisters, who have been so long shut away in the darkness be it from their own actions or circumstances which led them unknowingly toward the bitterness of oblivion! This is no selfish march for power or control, this is my own attempt to serve my father who art in Heaven, and bring the lost and starving sheep back to their shepherd. I do as I do out of love for my fellow man.

 

[Deman]

I'm making a new thread for the discussion on Expelled going on here. It's pretty off topic from vanity plates.

 

[ZeroNightmare]

Thats what they said about the crusades. and every other holy war.

 

[Zeonix]

Likewise, I pity your inability to comprehend the true wonderful nature of faith. You and I value very different things, but that of course goes without saying. It's strange that you speak of me as though I sought to trick and tempt people, talking of my promotion of my faith. But my friend, this can't be farther from the truth! My actions are both in the defense of my kin worldwide who have had their eyes opened, and in the hopes of rescuing our prodigal brothers and sisters, who have been so long shut away in the darkness be it from their own actions or circumstances which led them unknowingly toward the bitterness of oblivion! This is no selfish march for power or control, this is my own attempt to serve my father who art in Heaven, and bring the lost and starving sheep back to their shepherd. I do as I do out of love for my fellow man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're all sinful deviants and unless we're brought to the light by a bunch of self-proclaimed sheep, the big bad invisible man is going to punish us. We get it. Now stop preaching. It's annoying, it's offensive and it has no place on this forum.

May The Nix have mercy on your soul.

 

[J-Dude]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're all sinful deviants and unless we're brought to the light by a bunch of self-proclaimed sheep, the big bad invisible man is going to punish us. We get it. Now stop preaching. It's annoying, it's offensive and it has no place on this forum.

May The Nix have mercy on your soul.

Why do you look upon my helpful desire as a thing of evil? I will never understand you, I think.

 

[ZeroNightmare]

we have rules against political discussions. and religion.

 

[SailorAlea]

we have rules against political discussions. and religion.

And rogue moderation. Generally, those two weren't allowed, but we're more lax on them now. Provided people can refrain from outright slander.

 

[sub]

Getting this thread more on track

Ignoring the argument that is going no where



I agree with J-Dude that PC oversteps its bounds at times, and something like saying if you have a license plate that says I heart Jesus, every other major religion (ps who decides which religion is major enough to pass for their own plates? Probably dependent upon how many people of said religion ask for one) needs to have one of their own just because someone else wants them is ludicrous.

This is the way it works, might not be how it's supposed to work, but it is. The more people who want it, the more people who get it. That IS representative democracy, because when an idea represents a larger majority, it is what is gone with.

If more people vote for their delegates to vote for Obama, he wins the election

If more people want Jesus plates, the plates get made


It is the simple economic theory of supply and demand

I don't see the big deal or the harm in giving everyone the opportunity to purchase a plate advocating whatever their religion. I agree with you that Political Correctness goes far to far at times, but this isn't a case of political correctness going to far. This is a case of being fair to all Americans. Again, we should not **** the minority just because their the minority.

 

[Brim]

But we do, that's the way our country works, if you don't believe it you are lying to yourself.

The minority is a minority for a reason, the majority puts them there.


I'm not saying we shouldn't make plates for other religions outright, if there are Buddhists who want rub my belly plates, go ahead and make them. I'm just saying there shouldn't be a "if this religion gets this, all others need it regardless" mentality. People need to ask for things to get them, that's all I'm saying.

 

[Zeonix]

But we do, that's the way our country works, if you don't believe it you are lying to yourself.

The minority is a minority for a reason, the majority puts them there.

Eh...as a minority, I'm going have to disagree.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/minority

Minorities are generally treated like second-class citizens precisely because they are heavily outnumbered. When their numbers rise, they tend to get more rights, either because activists or the group itself begins to demand those rights or because they're recognized to be something one can no longer ignore. So basically, if you want rights, flood the country with your people.

While I don't have a problem with people having religious license plates, I don't see why the state should be the one to manufacture them.

 

[Hitokiri]

Separation of church and state. It's almost a joke in this country because of how religiously loaded so many "issues" are, but I support that separation VERY much. If someone wants a vanity license plate it should not be state sanctified. Ultimately though, I don't believe that the allowance or disallowance of this stupid license-plate thing is anything more than a trivial issue that will have no effect on anyone in America except for the nitpickers.

J-Dude, I can explain why people are often offended by your statements and by the similar statements of Christians in general on these forums. It is because you begin your arguments by placing yourself in a position above your audience: as being enlightened and correct. You then do this further, by condescending them and saying things like you "pity them," calling them "starving sheep," things like that. Of course, it is rather difficult for you NOT to place yourself somewhere in that position, when you earnestly believe that you are part of a chosen group of the "Ultimate Creator's," and that your peers here are lost souls damned to the black cauldron of Hades.

You believe that these people are very ignorant for believing what they do. Perhaps the many obnoxious debates that have raged across these forums have not enlightened you: these people also believe YOU are ignorant for YOUR beliefs, often with equal if not greater conviction, for a long gamut of reasons, and are insulted by your condescension. They know that in your mind, you believe you are trying to help, but they do not believe you are in an actual way trying to help, because believing your message would be as foolish to them as denying your faith would seem foolish to you. The many people who have likely argued with you about the validity of your religion, believe it or not J-Dude, were likely in their minds trying to help you. The truth is valued over delusion, and delusion is the equivalent of religious faith to a non-religious skeptic. They may see you as delusional, perhaps even mad. However, you of course do not view these people as helpers either, do you? To you they are the ignorant persecutors and sinners. It is unfortunate that sometimes they take to inflammatory speech but that is true of both sides, and an expected part of our beloved intorwebz.

Both sides believe that the other are ignorant sheep. Both sides, for their own reasons, are entrenched in their positions... and that is why we dislike religious debates here and have had policies against them for many years.