Hypermode / Hyperspeed

[Disguise]

Well he may be on to something with this.

Correct me if i'm wrong but, duels are designed to be uninterupted by outside interference right? What about adding something like this to those in a duel, when the 2 dueling are somewhat close to eachother you see "hypermode" effects and when one melees the other back it goes away and you see that happen, then when he recovers and they are generally close again, you see the effects go on randomly around their location? It would only be vissible to those outside the duel(doesn't effect the 2 in duel visually)

I think that way would have the best feel to it and keep everything the same.

That's an incredibly good idea. I don't know how this would work on a person-to-person basis, but with a duel mode, it sounds like it could be done.

This would prevent other players from interfering with duels, which you could expect to happen often enough on high pop servers.

Even though the original idea seems far fetched, I'm glad you could make good use of it instead of simply saying it wouldn't work. And who knows, just implementing the idea would open avenues to implementing it in other ways as well.

I would be inclined to add this as server-optional, if possible, in case mature players are there and they want to see the fight in action.

 

[Eacos]

Good idea, although I'm skeptical as to the amount of work involved. With all the progress being made behind the scenes I can imagine the Devs aren't really up for further modifications to melee.

 

[mutsu]

By reading the thread "Electric Sparks only with Turbo On or Charging" i saw that youtube-video:

(thanks TwisteR)
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At 1:29 to 1:31 you can see really good what I meant. They aren't "jump" across the map. They still "go" one direction by hiting each other.

I thougt about that and still have some new variants of that suggestion.

a)
If you take the crosshair at your enemy (remember in that moment you can see the model at your scouter) then you are able to press a key which allows you to go in hypermode. (Maybe there's a text at the right side under the scouter like "Activate hypermode against 'Player123'? 1 - activate | 2 - abort" (just an example).
If you press "1" for activate you only allowed to swoop (continuously) plus you can only do simple melee against these player (he can be selected) or simething like that. Although you just can move in a certain range. Why? Because hypermode should not use to escape, just for attack. If you go to far away it's like your at the and of a map (you fly against an invisible wall).
So you can use hypermode still if you are in that range. If you are standing outside that "invisible radius about Player123" then you can't do hypermode.
So hypermode can also used to start a counter-attack. If you being hit with and with simple melee (if it exists in 1.3) or you pushed away after adv. melee you can go hypermode by pushing away. In that case it's easier to kind of get away for an attack against you. Newbs have a better opportunity to (kind of) escape.


b)
The second way is like the first just with the difference that your opponent also must confirm that he goes hypermode too. But that destruct the option "counter-attack" like I've explaned in a).
And I thouhgt it would be kind of annoying if you always have to press "1" or "2" (or some other keys). In that case I prefer the first variaton.


c)
Last but not least there's an way by pressing just one button OR choose hypermode like an kamehameha. And then you go for it. Here it is very easy to escape, EXCEPT you have to select an enemy before you doing hypermode. By doing that there is also that possibility for that radius I describe in a).
In ESF are characters who have 2 attacks at on key. It can be nearly the same with hypermode. If you press "1" again, you got hypermode. In fight it's easier to select and also faster.
But what can you do if your opponent goes hypermode? What can you do by your one? To make it faster, there displayed a text or a warning and you just have to press "1" (or another key) and you go hypermode too. Or you simple choose hypermode by your one and then you go for it. I guess the last way is the best so both players have to do more on there own. And you have to look if your opponent just do teleport or if he goes hypermode.


Informations:
- by going hypermode you become an aura (just like you mostly do) but it's not necessary
- your speed is MAYBE increased by 2 till 4 % (values can be changed, but not to fast)
- you becoming invisible for other players, except for your enemy (if he goes hypemode too)
- there CAN be a period of time by using hypermode, also a delay
OR after a certain numbers of hits it ends automatically
- others just see, like in the youtube-video above, kind of "bubbles"
- players just can move in a certain radius of the enemy (if you like that idea with the radius)
- if you have to charge you up, hypermode aborts

effects:
- you see the whole world in a "red-tone" (not a must)
- your view is like that:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/earths-special-forces/images/nice-effect#imagebox (thanks Sicron) (just one way)

I personally prefer the last variation (c). Sounds the best for me.

Hope you guys like it and I also hope that I haven't forget something.

 

[Disguise]

Some of the ideas you mentioned are a little similar to mechanics being planned. I'm just wondering what you think about them and how you'd tailor them to your idea.

Charged Turbo will most likely be like a hypermode, where you can charge your power level higher and increase your swooping speeds.

You can challenge other players to duels where other players cant interfere. It's also been suggested very briefly in another thread that this could look like invisible flashes of light to other players.

What do you think regarding those two ideas? Anything you'd add or modify?

 

[mutsu]

Some of the ideas you mentioned are a little similar to mechanics being planned. I'm just wondering what you think about them and how you'd tailor them to your idea.

I don't know that there are similar mechanics, because I know nearly nothing about the gameplay in 1.3:Final. Infuriating.
I just relate to the version 1.2. Like i told you, I connect 1.3.Final (at the moment) just with beauty, with nothing else. I have no imagine what that guys do relating to gameplay / game mechanics.

Charged Turbo will most likely be like a hypermode, where you can charge your power level higher and increase your swooping speeds.

The difference is that you can't do counter-attacks (like I've explained above) and that's the most impressive thing i like on hypermode. It's an totally unforeseeable fighting. (Sorry for repetition) But if you hit someone and then he just can use teleport, go hypermode or start swooping against you, shoot at you and all these possibilities.
If he uses teleport then you have to look around (I personally play without scouter, because I'm to proud of using it. Goku never uses one *hehe*) and then you have to teleport too, swoop against / away him.
If he go in hypermode you have to react fast, because in less seconds you can be hit from everywhere. So you have to decide to go also in hypermode OR you try to escape with teleport / swoop or you do a swoopdrop and while you do, charge an kamehameha and wait till his time of using it is over (if its done in that way).
If he uses something different, then you have to do other things. You see, it makes the game more faster and it brains the game up.
I think that charged turbo could be a beginning of hypermode. You increase your powerlevel and your speed and then you swoop into each other and then happens what I've write above. BUT, there can be an option, while you swooping at him, you can go hypermode. If your opponent flys into you with adv. melee or just these 12 hits(?) then he kicks your ass of or you fast enough to avoid his attack. I mean your opponent can't see you, but your still there and if you don't change your direction, you'll loose and he got you.
That's also a difference between hypermode and charged turbo. Because at charged turbo you're the whole time visible but by using hypermode you becoming invisible (even for your opponent), except he goes hypermode too or he gets you with an attack (kamehameha, swoop into you with adv. melee, ..).
Also it's not a must to have a higher powerlevel.
The fact that your speed is increased it's also not neaded. It just makes it harder. But still an possibility. I would it just increase by lower then 10%. Otherwise it's to fast and nobody can handle that. Imagine you going ssj3 and then also a speedup is really hard.

You can challenge other players to duels where other players cant interfere. It's also been suggested very briefly in another thread that this could look like invisible flashes of light to other players.

This is a great idea, but it have nothing to do with fighting itselves. It's just a way that nobody can interrupt a fight between 2 people. I really love this idea of Duel, but in that case nobody can really see what they doing. What if the shoot against each other? I can't imagine that would be a good solution.
Hypermode COULD be just for an certain period of time then the players are forced to fight normal till the delay is over (if the team says that it will implement AND if it has an timelimit and cooldown). So others can watch the fight and just for an moment (when they using hypermode) they can't see them.
I hope that I've understand you correct. Otherwise sorry.

conclusion:
duels top, the last a flop
(it should rhyme nothing more^^)

What do you think regarding those two ideas? Anything you'd add or modify?

Generally there is nothing against it. Now you knew what I'm thinking about and just to summarize that: your idea is good but (for me) you can't really combine these 2 ideas and somehow there a little things can't work. I'm sure that there still errors in hypermode which I couldn't find at the moment) and maybe I understand you not correct. Anyway I thougt that it's makes much more fun to play with hypermode like I discribe it 2 posts above as without. Sure it can be changed but the mainfacts (invisible for everyone, except for your opponent if he uses hypermode too AND if you getting hit with an attack except hypermode then hypermode is abort) should be the same. Otherwise it's a completly different idea and it has nothing to do with that what I'm thinking.

I would do everything to help the team but I'm not a coder or a mapper. So this is the only way I can help making this the best ESF-version (dbz game) ever.

 

[Disguise]

I'll fill you in then the best I can. First off, when considering ideas, the less amount of changes that are needed to make it work, the better. Even if your idea had incredible potential behind it, only ones that adhere to what's currently planned will be even remotely considered.

Charged Turbo is a new feature where charging it increases your power and speed. Unlike what you've said though, I don't think it has any consequences like making you take more damage. If anything, this could be done if stamina was worked correctly.

There's a stamina system which I believe is still being figured out. It's most likely being used as a limiter. What it limits, I can't put a finger on, but I'm guessing things like Teleport and Transformations, possibly Turbo. These factors may consume it. If it gets too low, you have a more difficult time escaping, as swooping, teleport, and turbo are disabled.

You suggest turning invisible if speeds are different. Since there's nothing like that in the game currently, a whole code would need to be made for it. Instead, I'd consider the illusion of teleporting being like that of turning invisible. If they can't see you on their screen or on the scouter, you're invisible. Thus maybe make teleports silent and remove the icon from the scouting radar.


If you can base your ideas around Charged Turbo, Stamina, and other current game mechanics, then you might strike gold. Otherwise we might as well talk about making another DBZ Mod. Hell even when I talk about using current game mechanics and ideas like I've mentioned, even I am criticized for being too obscure.

 

[mutsu]

Tanks for the great summary. Like you! ^_^

You suggest turning invisible if speeds are different.

Am I? I thought I suggest turning invisible by using hypermode. It's not neaded to change the speed, just an idea, but I guess I've written that.

If you can base your ideas around Charged Turbo, Stamina, and other current game mechanics, then you might strike gold.

Ok, let's try.
New Attack on the same button like melee ("1"), called hypermode.
If you actived it, you getting invisible for everyone. Others, who are using hypermode too, are able to see you.

Progress:

You activate and then you going in a kind of unlimited swoop (like on charged turbo, if you interrupt these swoop, hypermode ends.

If you hit someone there comes a kind of bubble as you can see at the youtube video some posts above at 1:29 till 1:31.

That's all.

I guess it's not that much they have to code. If I understand it correctly than stamina can regulate it that you can't use it all the time. And for the fact that you swoop, you also pay KI (like charged turbo costs KI). If you haven't KI you'll stop hypermode or can't even do it. It's that simple.

Sure there can be effects added like an kind of kaioken-effect (with a trail) or something different, but it musn't , because it goes in the rubric of beauty and you don't need it, because that's everything which makes the gameplay more attractive and exciting.

edit://
Everything I wrote above were mostly examples what you can do if you being hit and so on. I just want to give you an useful imagination.

 

[Disguise]

Sounds like some good modifications there.

Unfortunately I didn't mention this but they've already bound all the mouse buttons with melee options. MB 1 = simple melee, MB 2 = combo melee, MB 3 = throw/ grab & smash (alternate to throw based on charged turbo).

So in light of not altering mouse buttons, what would you do differently?

 

[Grega]

Sounds like some good modifications there.

Unfortunately I didn't mention this but they've already bound all the mouse buttons with melee options. MB 1 = simple melee, MB 2 = combo melee, MB 3 = throw/ grab & smash (alternate to throw based on charged turbo).

So in light of not altering mouse buttons, what would you do differently?

Actually throw is M1 + M2 M3 has nothing to do with it as some mice dont have that button. Yea i know its rare but we are keeping that in mind.

 

[mutsu]

Disguise, I guess that I can't follow you, so I hope it's the right answer:

Don't forget if you press the key "1" for melee a second time then you can choose hypermode. If you press it again you have melee acitivated, again - hypermode and so on. So it's an own attack. If you begin to swoop you start the attack or by pressing a mousebutton.
You just need one mousbutton for simple melee, because you can't do other things in hypermode.

So (for that attack which every character has) the team just has to delete the other mousebutton-variations like throw and simple can copy the code.

If you do something different you're out of hypermode.

 

[Grega]

Disguise, I guess that I can't follow you, so I hope it's the right answer:

Don't forget if you press the key "1" for melee a second time then you can choose hypermode. If you press it again you have melee acitivated, again - hypermode and so on. So it's an own attack. If you begin to swoop you start the attack or by pressing a mousebutton.
You just need one mousbutton for simple melee, because you can't do other things in hypermode.

So (for that attack which every character has) the team just has to delete the other mousebutton-variations like throw and simple can copy the code.

If you do something different you're out of hypermode.

But that would ruin the entire concept of the SAM system XD

Whats the point of special attacks if you cant use them XD

 

[mutsu]

But that would ruin the entire concept of the SAM system XD

Whats the point of special attacks if you cant use them XD

How do you mean that? What's the concept of the SAM-system. Never heard about it.

It's no special attack it's just an attack every player can use.

 

[Grega]

How do you mean that? What's the concept of the SAM-system. Never heard about it.

It's no special attack it's just an attack every player can use.

The SAM system are the special attacks. And if you cant use them in hypermode that kinda defeats the pourpouse :s

 

[Disguise]

SAM is most likely a result of combo melee, and if you remove that from hypermode, you're taking that aspect out, which it seems has heavy emphasis placed on it. Its role, as apparent to me, seems to add variation to the Combo Melee style.

 

[Grega]

Actually we made all 3 melee types integratable. So when chaining hits (like in 1.2 simple melee) you can actually switch betwean what melee you use. As each has a different effect on the oponent and yourself.

 

[Disguise]

Maybe this hypermode could be a temporary state where Throws and Combo melee can't be used by the player or used against them, reducing a fight only to simple melee.

Teleports would become Short Teleports. This would go well with suggestions I've made about creating that close combat scenario I've talked about so much. It would be best used and sustained against a player with low stamina.

I know what you're going to say. Just throwing in my opinions.

 

[mutsu]

You can suprise your opponent otherwise it's easy to follow and if you wan't then implement the SAM system. I don't know if the special attacks just kind of combos or melee attacks or if they also ki-attacks. But like I said, I thought that's kind of simple melee only (like in version 1.1?) otherwise i can imagine that hypermode becomes to powerful and you have think at your ki. If you're the whole time in hypermode you haven't unlimited ki. And other attacks bring you out. I also don't understand why it ruins the special attacks. If you're using kamehameha or genkidama and other one too the're also no special attacks (I guess). Same here. Maybe you should read all the posts above where I explain the whole process more.

And why you will uses special attacks in there? You still can use it by not using hypermode.

 

[Grega]

You can suprise your opponent otherwise it's easy to follow and if you wan't then implement the SAM system. I don't know if the special attacks just kind of combos or melee attacks or if they also ki-attacks. But like I said, I thought that's kind of simple melee only (like in version 1.1?) otherwise i can imagine that hypermode becomes to powerful and you have think at your ki. If you're the whole time in hypermode you haven't unlimited ki. And other attacks bring you out. I also don't understand why it ruins the special attacks. If you're using kamehameha or genkidama and other one too the're also no special attacks (I guess). Same here. Maybe you should read all the posts above where I explain the whole process more.

And why you will uses special attacks in there? You still can use it by not using hypermode.

Special attacks are not only KI attack related ones. There is allso melee related.

As said each melee type has a different effect on both you and the guy you hit. And they are all made to interact with each other. So you can do a simple melee hit, folowed by a combo melee and finally do a throw, followed by a beam while hes down. The choice of attacks is up to you.

 

[mutsu]

Yeah sure and why can't somebody (after he was hitting and throwing / press away) go in hypermode or before? If I has read your post I thought that the opponent haven't a real chance or his hp is near 0.

I mean it's just an added option for players who love to fight like in 1.1 and it's also for the eye of spectators of that fight. If they see just these bubbles and say "whoah that's a fight man!" (or something like that ). I mean you musn't change that much. You simply add one thing which (I believe) isn't THAT much work instead of creating a totally different fighting system.

edit://
If I could I would help you guys coding that staff but I can't and so I try do help you with ideas to make this the best mod ever and it's the last version of esf. If not know when else do I try to get this thing in? In every version I missed something like that.

 

[Grega]

But the melee itself is allready made after 1.1s melee.

Not as hard to do chains but stil similar and harder than in 1.2.3