You can easily think of the RPS system as stances if you want. With Fast beating strong, strong overpowering technique and technique overpowering fast. Essentially the trhow allows you to controll the direction and distance of the knockback for easier follow ups but doesnt do damage by itself (distance is between the 1.2 and 1.1 knockbacks determined by the charge of the throw with the max charge of round 2 seconds), simple melee functions as it does now with a full knock back distance and good damage and combo melee allows you to choose direction of the knockback while dealing low to moderate damage (depending on the charge prior to the hit with an animation time between 3 to 5 seconds), but the distance of the actual knock back is still full.
As for the character archtypes having more speed and less health and stuff like that. Thats all still planned. But not as part of the melee system, but as part of the character balancing.
You keep askig for details about melee but here is the cold hard trouth. All 3 melee types are the same in their design. You hold a button and fly in to someone then he gets sent flying. The only difference is the damage, distance he is knocked back and animation. It really is THAT simple. Yet you keep searching for deeper meanings and systems that just aren't there.
Why it has to be a rock papper scissors system, because a small element of luck has to be involved to give new players the feeling like they aren't just punching bags for the veterans. It keeps them playing, just like lucky headshots keeps people playing FPS games. Like it or not but having HOWing was an actual benefit to 1.1 because it kept new players from rage quitting the game. And while the new system is no where near as generous as HOWing was, it provides a chance for new players to actually land a hit, while the vetarans still have anglehits and other techniques they can use to get round that system.
Meaning veterans will start using the different systems suited to what they need. Want to do damage and have a big knock back, use combo, want the most damage, use simple, want to set up the other person for an easy continued combo, use throw.
But if you start overly relying on one of them you give your opponenet the chance to counter it. People will fall in to habits of using one over the other, and that will create an aditional depth since you will have to look for their use of one system in certain situations over another giving you a better chance to counter it if you get in to a headon. But if you own anglehits, then you can easily stick to one system forever. The only difference is that instead of a headon. You will give up a hit if the opponent is using the system that overpowers the one you use.
I can easily pretend 1.3 just got released and Raven suffered a massive aneurysm. That doesn't make it, you know, true. RPS isn't a stance system, nor am I stating a stance system is even what the game needs, but RPS sounds pretty terrible based solely on your description, and it's a system that was created with zero input from the community. I still have no idea what this system actually entails, other than "Hey, you can throw people! Also something something 2 other systems....don't worry about it. Combos!" Whenever someone attempts to describe this system, I feel like it's 1.2 all over again, and someone is trying to convince me advanced melee is the shit. Hell, it's advanced! It's in the title! There's literally no rational reason outside of the system not working at all that a gameplay video can't be made to show us what the hell you're talking about.
I wasn't addressing character stats, but the ability to choose your playstyle, and have the game reward you for your playstyle using whatever character you want. Unless you're going to start altering ki expenditure figures in order to address innate advantages over using one character or the other, it's all fluff. When it comes down to competitions, everyone is going to end up using the same character, because we want to see who is legitimately the better player. You guys seem to forget who will be paying for servers and keeping the game alive, and for what purpose. The system I just threw out there allows for everyone choosing the same character, while still allowing for your stats to be tailored to your playstyle. Yours doesn't. Good thing there was zero dialogue on this front when it mattered.
Searching for deeper meaning? I'm trying to understand a system I've never seen in action. How is asking questions and asking for elaboration searching too deeply? Show us the goddamn game and there wouldn't be any questions. I could just look at the video and determine what's what from there.
Grega said:
Why it has to be a rock papper scissors system, because a small element of luck has to be involved to give new players the feeling like they aren't just punching bags for the veterans. It keeps them playing, just like lucky headshots keeps people playing FPS games. Like it or not but having HOWing was an actual benefit to 1.1 because it kept new players from rage quitting the game. And while the new system is no where near as generous as HOWing was, it provides a chance for new players to actually land a hit, while the vetarans still have anglehits and other techniques they can use to get round that system.
And finally, we arrive at the ugly truth. Grega, I like you. I do. But this is a level of bullshit I think most people aren't prepared to swallow. In a game based on skill and technique, why the **** would there be any degree of luck involved? To protect the children? Are we seriously using "think of the children!!" to hobble the player base? There is no universe where someone getting a hit on me, not because of something I did or didn't do, but because the system is literally working against me to benefit some idiot, is perfectly acceptable. Because here's what's going to happen. Your new players? They're going to get roflstomped no matter what. That's just how it is. The good players will always be the good players, and if some new guy decides he likes the challenge and sticks around, he'll join their ranks one day. But you guys ****ed up, because now in high level competitions, there's going to be this little feeling in the back of your mind. Am I getting hit more than I should have because this system is stupid as shit? Was that last kill not really mine, because Lord Random was involved? And really? You're seriously going to suggest HOWing is what kept 1.1 alive? You're literally blowing my mind with the mental gymnastics you guys are pulling to justify a random mechanic in a game of skill. HOWing wasn't random. You knew exactly who was going to win, because it was always the person who swooped last. That was something you could control. It wasn't a feature. It was a broken mechanism, and not something to be ******* emulated 2 releases later. Jesus.
Veterans will find the simplest and easiest route to destroying everyone. If I don't have to throw, guess how often I'm going to throw? Never. Just like now, where advanced melee is a part of the game, but may as well not be because I'm not using it. Of course, since only a handful of people who are competent at ESF have actually tested the system, we really don't know how well it'll hold up once its released into the wild. Because, again, there are a lot of aspects of 1.2 that were broken, and weren't found until later on, resulting in the cheap fighting you see in Europe.
And then you conclude with, "Hey, but in reality this one system broken into 3 subgroups don't matter because you could realistically stick to one system, and so long as you don't get caught in a head on collision, it won't make a bit of difference." Which, of course, negates everything you just said about protecting new players, because they aren't going to stand a ******* chance. No one who's worth a damn is going to engage in a head on and risk taking additional damage on the hope they've gotten this RPS bs right. I prefer not to gamble. I like making the safe, informed decision, and if I think I'm better off attacking from other angles, that's what I'm going to do, and that's what everyone else is going to do.
Show us a ******* video.
