getting more LEGAL users in the esf community

[Mkilbride]

He's a paranoid idiot, there is no convincing him. Bet he has a tinfoil hat, too.

 

[harSens]

The validation link asks me for my steam credentials. Every dork can check out if I have half life by visiting my profile. I know that the verification page has like a certificate telling me it's a valve site and it displays www.steamcommunity.com as the host, but knowing me internets tells me that this info can easily be faked.

Point is my steam credentials will not be put into any random site. They're used in steam and that's it.

Agreed. I don't think we need to do valve's legality checking for them. As far as I'm concerned, the validation system is only to hook up awards etc to your forum account if you're interested in that.

 

[Sting]

pfft I won't ever verify. My steam details belong to the steam client, and nothing else. No 1.3 for me then I guess?

Steam validation is created on this forum because many pirates still got support.
Now its much easier to check out if someone has it.

Then again no one here ever said you have to do this.
There is only 1 thing then you wont get support from here what seems very fair.

And you cant come up with an excuse that we have to go to your profile to see if you have an legal copy.
Its what you said in a other post

but knowing me internets tells me that this info can easily be faked

it was easly to fake stuff on the internet right??
Well I guess steam is using internet too.
Who tells us that you really have an legal copy of half-life on your steam account??

Sounds redicilous right??
In kinda way you just say the same thing.

 

[Skyrider]

pfft I won't ever verify. My steam details belong to the steam client, and nothing else. No 1.3 for me then I guess?

I'm pretty sure you've logged in the steam community site as well, am I wrong? Besides. A valve team member even backs-up this feature and he thinks it's awesome to have. If you can't trust a valve/steam member, then who can you trust .

 

[Reptile]

He is right in one thing, its the internet and it shouldnt be trusted. If he doesnt want to use the validation tool its his good right, if i would have purchased that many games through steam i'd be more carefull wether to hand out credentials or not.
Even if the ESF team only want to support the legal copy's of half life it is their good right. Wether or not people purchased a copy is not something they should be concerned about or should be checking (imho).
The next step would be validating if someone purchased their legit copy of Windows.

 

[Skyrider]

The next step would be validating if someone purchased their legit copy of Windows.

Isn't that already in? , Windows Key Activation?

In any case. Everyone is free to refuse validation, it's totally up to them if they wish to validate or not.

the validation system is only to hook up awards etc to your forum account if you're interested in that.

But in the end at the release of the mod, those who have not validated are on their own.. Plus, you'll be missing out the goodies.

 

[Reptile]

I understand why such a system could be in place, i've got nothing to hide as all my games are bought legally. I do however find it odd that i have to prove my legality and in such are being put off by these systems.

 

[Skyrider]

Systems like this are being used on more sites lately, as OpenID gets quite popular to use. Same with Garry's Mod download website.. You are forced to validate if you even want to download files from the site. While I do understand this system can cause a frustration to some; but in general it's needed to stop supporting users who either fake having steam, or admits it in public. It makes it a lot easier for everyone.

 

[harSens]

Garry's Mod is being sold. Sure they have some incentive for extra security. We on the other hand don't gain anything by protecting our downloads. There are valid reasons not to hook up your steam account to your ESF account (privacy, not trusting our shady looking steam login, laziness). I don't think we should lock the support section for users that don't want to sign up for those reasons (including myself). If that's gonna cost us some extra time with those trying to run ESF in illegal ways then so be it. Those of us who are anal with legality can still choose not to help those who are not verified now.

 

[Skyrider]

Garry's Mod is being sold. Sure they have some incentive for extra security. We on the other hand don't gain anything by protecting our downloads

I wasn't talking about the downloads, but the protection of OpenID in general.

privacy, not trusting our shady looking steam login, laziness

Let's not forget any new layout is highly welcome as Skizer mentioned . Bit unfair to talk about laziness when you can help out as well . Besides, over 230 people validated so far.

If that's gonna cost us some extra time with those trying to run ESF in illegal ways then so be it

I prefer not to waste any time on something they are having troubles with to begin with because they are using non-steam. I do have better things to do, and I'm sure you do as well.

 

[Sting]

Why should we help piracy even more since its forbidden?
I think in this way we help a bit to fight against it.

 

[tonjohn]

pfft I won't ever verify. My steam details belong to the steam client, and nothing else. No 1.3 for me then I guess?

This site is using our web api which is completely safe. When you login, you do so on the Steam Community website. ESF does not have access to your password or any super secret material.

-BurtonJ
Valve

 

[Sicron]

Garry's Mod is being sold. Sure they have some incentive for extra security. We on the other hand don't gain anything by protecting our downloads. There are valid reasons not to hook up your steam account to your ESF account (privacy, not trusting our shady looking steam login, laziness). I don't think we should lock the support section for users that don't want to sign up for those reasons (including myself). If that's gonna cost us some extra time with those trying to run ESF in illegal ways then so be it. Those of us who are anal with legality can still choose not to help those who are not verified now.

I disagree with you there. We may not really gain something for promoting legality, but at least ESF can't be shut down for helping tons of people with illegal copy's of the game. That said, it takes a lot of time to help people with illegal copies as well. When they come here, having some problem, it takes us 3 days of constant posting to help them, only to find out that they are using an illegal copy, and shouldn't even bother to play this game as it won't work. That's not really an efficient way of helping, is it? It wouldn't matter if it was only one person though, the thing is, there isn't just one person. There will be hundreds of people using illegal copies. Helping all of them would start to annoy the **** out of us people who try to help everybody as quickly as possible. There is a lot more to this validation system, than to just annoy the couple of you who are to anal to login once, think about that for once.

People shouldn't be so anal. You are logging in on the official steam site, and only steam will get your login data, and it will only send a message back to ESF to check if you are in possession of a legal copy or not. That's all that happens. Are you scared that they might hack the site and get all your stuff? Well it wouldn't matter regardless of that, if they managed to hack the site they would have your login credentials either way. The validating system is using the exact same database as your profile system on Steam.

No offence, but people who don't want to validate for the reason of being anal, are just an idiot; if Steam is hacked, you lose your login data either way.

 

[tonjohn]

The validation link asks me for my steam credentials. Every dork can check out if I have half life by visiting my profile. I know that the verification page has like a certificate telling me it's a valve site and it displays www.steamcommunity.com as the host, but knowing me internets tells me that this info can easily be faked.

Point is my steam credentials will not be put into any random site. They're used in steam and that's it.

While is it possible to spoof the Steam Community website, the URL itself cannot be spoofed.

Instead of logging in when prompted, you can manually login to the Steam Community before doing the ESF verification thing and it should work w/o asking you to log back in (assuming you use the same browser).

 

[Grega]

While is it possible to spoof the Steam Community website, the URL itself cannot be spoofed.

Instead of logging in when prompted, you can manually login to the Steam Community before doing the ESF verification thing and it should work w/o asking you to log back in (assuming you use the same browser).

Really?

Never tried that.

Also *GASP* the guy who kicked my ass badly all those years ago is from valve >.<

 

[harSens]

I wasn't talking about the downloads, but the protection of OpenID in general.


Let's not forget any new layout is highly welcome as Skizer mentioned . Bit unfair to talk about laziness when you can help out as well . Besides, over 230 people validated so far.


I prefer not to waste any time on something they are having troubles with to begin with because they are using non-steam. I do have better things to do, and I'm sure you do as well.

Over 400 forum users did not. In addition, a 1 million silent majority downloaded ESF and never signed up to the forum. I don't think we should take away the support they can get by reading the support FAQ and the support forum. Sure our current fanbase trusts us and will sign up through that shady looking login screen. New users might not be so trusting though. Furthermore, I'm principally against requiring you to give us access to your steam stats to get support. I'm not saying we should embrace piracy though, if it becomes a problem we can always take away thread creating rights in the support forum to those who didn't validate. Also, since we now have the nice validation icon, we can give priority to supporting those who did validate, and we don't have to harass them with the 'is your steam legal' question anymore. Some users can even choose not to support those who didn't validate if they want.

 

[Sicron]

How is the Steam site a shady looking login system?

 

[Reptile]

It can appear to be one in the eyes off many i can assure you. Maybe not for you (or me) but for others they are asked for their login details, this action alone can scare people off.
I fully agree with Harsens on this, as i've said in the help section before

 

[Dokutayuu]

Perhaps removing posting permission from the Help sections instead of making it completely invisible could work. Those with legitimate copies of HL and Steam could still find the stickies and see solutions to similar problems by registered users even as guests. It also prevents non-Steamers from filling it up with their questions and they won't find anything helpful from the board at all.

Admittedly, the verification thing could seem a little scary. With it only being required for posting, the silent masses could still find Steam-relevant help with ESF. Tonjohn's method seems good too, I'm guessing people would be happier to log-in through the offical Steam site first.

 

[Skyrider]

Over 400 forum users did not. In addition, a 1 million silent majority downloaded ESF and never signed up to the forum. I don't think we should take away the support they can get by reading the support FAQ and the support forum. Sure our current fanbase trusts us and will sign up through that shady looking login screen. New users might not be so trusting though. Furthermore, I'm principally against requiring you to give us access to your steam stats to get support. I'm not saying we should embrace piracy though, if it becomes a problem we can always take away thread creating rights in the support forum to those who didn't validate. Also, since we now have the nice validation icon, we can give priority to supporting those who did validate, and we don't have to harass them with the 'is your steam legal' question anymore. Some users can even choose not to support those who didn't validate if they want.

If we'd open the support forums again (with the ability for them to create threads) then I'm sure there will be a lot of people creating threads who haven't validated at all.. Which in the end will lead to "Please validate" over and over again. How ever, I can make it so that the section will be open, but non-validated users cannot post in it.

BTW, everyone has access to the F.A.Q:
http://forum.esforces.com/faq.php

EDIT:
It's done .. What's done? The above "underline".