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Mephit74

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Of course, videogame DnD is a far cry from the real thing. I prefer tabletop as I think most do.
Not all tabletop RPG's use the DND rule set and are still fun *cough* Eternal Rage but there are ones out there that suck just like their videogame counterparts.

And Cucumba when you say find a crappy DM. . .are you volunteering? :laff:
Next time don't be so grumpy. . .
 

Alkaline2

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:no: The Game DnD on Xbox sucks ass it crap compared to the original borad game version,thats the best!
 
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The only D&D computer game that I ever really enjoyed was Baldurs Gate because once Gorian dies you are pretty much free to explore anywhere on the existing map without restriction. Where as Baldurs Gate 2 you were limited to exploring areas as they opened up to you.

As it stands right now I like 3rd edition D&D but I feel like it was made too generic by the d20 system. It was good in the beginning but it just seems so much easier than 2nd edition D&D ever was.
 
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That helps it along though, it's modular approach makes it the most easily moddable game next to GURPS. I personally find d20 to be the best RPG system along in a very long time.

And officially sanctioned critical rules rock :p
 

Mephit74

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I like third edition best. Mostly because I don't have to keep figuring out THACO and first edition was such a pain in the butt (from what I have been told), I would have lost interest with it quickly.

Cuc and I used to be in the middle of combat and I would have to stop and make him refigure my THACO. That when the "That's why I killed her your honor" face would appear. I like anything that let's me bypass that face. :]
 
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Dungeons and Dragons is one of those games you can't cleanly explain to someone; they have to play it a couple of times to understand what it is. Cucumba hit quite a few nails in the head, as he should have, being a DM for as many years as he has been.

Most people are used to having "role-playing" experience as described in "role-playing games" restricted to dialogue trees and wandering through linear forests with pre-generated AI controlled enemies and being forced to adhere to a strict ruleset which allows you to either hit something, cast something, or use a skill as described in the game's manual. Real table-top role-playing, the original role-playing experience, is a much, much more complex and rich experience than this. Dungeons and dragons is that experience.

Say you come up to a pool of water in a dungeon somewhere. If you're me you walk the hell around it because you've had a DM that has scared you crapless by water in all forms. If you aren't, and you have to go through it to get across, you'll probably end up going in at some point. In a computer game your options are generally restricted to walking through anything they place on the ground. If it's a linear RPG that requires you to do something with the water than it wont even let you just walk into the water if you want to, it will stop you and make some kind of comment about how the water is special leaving you to attempt some action there (Final Fantasy style linear). In the computer game perhaps you walk in and 5 skeletons pop out of the ground for you to fight. You fight, you move on to the next puddle where you expect more skeletons. Table top RPGs are not like this.

In a table top RPG the best the DM will do without you asking anything is tell you that there is water in front of you in the cave. Maybe he'll tell you it looks or smells as stagnant as the air. Maybe he'll describe it in vivid detail to you. It's up to you what you want to do from there. If you're in a hurry you could just tell you "I wade through it quicklky and get to the other side" and perhaps you get part way in and something with razor sharp nails grabs your leg and pulls you down while a mace flies out of the water towards your forhead. If you're more cautious perhaps you take a closer look into the water and the DM tells you that you can see a glint of light off of something metal at the bottom. Perhaps on longer inspection he would tell you that you can see a bony fist clutching an iron dagger whose arm leads directly into the ground, or maybe you can see the glowing holes of two hollowed out eye sockets partially buried into the dirt.

Let's assume you didn't look closely enough and you didn't see the glowing eyes or the arm going directly into the ground. At this point you have options. Maybe you fire an arrow into the water and attempt to stir up anything that might be laying in wait for you underneath. Maybe you lean over carefully, take a mace, and gently swash around the water with it to see whether or something in there is waiting to grab you. Maybe after a couple of seconds of swashing around the water a big boney hand comes up and grabs your mace, pulling it into the water. If you fail a dexterity check maybe you can pulled in too and lose your mace. If you win maybe you pull back and break off a skeleton's arm, fist still firmly wrapped around the handle of your mace. Perhaps you struggle and begin to drowned, but your violent splashing alerts your team mates to come to your aid, but all they can see is limps flailing around violently. They have to try and pull you out because, unlike computer generated RPGs, the people trying to save you have to act as their role, which means they have no knowledge of what is attacking you, or how to hit it. It doesn't just light up with a red enemy circle when you look at it either.

And don't think those are your only options either. Maybe you want to try a running leap over the water, or you don't want to take any chances so you'd rather just send a lightning bolt into the water and fry anything that might be waiting for you. Or maybe you even want to put your head *into* the water to look for treasure or take the weapon from that skeletal hand, you masochistic, twisted ******* you. Or maybe, you've had a bad experience and expect a troll to lay in wait, so you pour the oil out of one of your lamps into the water and light it on fire with a flint. The skeleton jumps up and writhes in the fire for a while, then you smash it. You're feeling pretty good about yourself until the DM reminds you that you're in a cave and the oxygen is leaving almost as fast as the smoke is coming. Good job, ace.

In D&D you have real options, not just options that the game was written to understand, like walking and hitting things, or casting fireballs onto a random spot on the ground with a set area of affect and damage rate predetermined by the rule-set without fail. D&D is about the experience of putting yourself in the role and the setting of an individual of your creation in a magical world where you can ask questions and participate in a meaningful way. That scenario I just listed above might have taken you ten seconds in a computer RPG or a Final Fantasy game. Enemies spawn, you go into combat mode, and all that matters is that you kill them and collect experience. Well the experience in D&D is the event itself, and you could easiliy blow 10 or 15 minutes searching through the water or struggling with an enemy that caught you off gaurd in something as encumbering as water. When you gain a level, you should feel like you've actually had an experience and learned something more than about how many hit points a skeleton has.


In other words: DON'T CONFUSE D&D WITH FINAL FANTASY. DON'T CONFUSE D&D WITH BULDER'S GATE, and for God's sake, don't confuse it with everquest.
 
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A little off topic but what character class/classes do you guys like playing the most? I prefer rogues and priests. I love rogues because they are a hotbed for roleplaying opportunities.
 
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Rogues are where it's at, but even a fighter can be a 'hotbed' for role playing opportunities if you don't play him as a straight smash and bash character. I am a fan of monks, because I prefer to use my body and my mind to get me out of sticky situations. That, and you can't really be disarmed unless they cleave both off.
 
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Basiclly summarizing Sonic's post......

In the table tob, you can do anything, at any time.

With rpgs like final fantasy, baldur's gate, etc etc. You are set on a particular road that you can not veer off. The game doesn't move unless you do the same things over and over again, that beat the game the first time.

Table Tob = Freedom

Video Game = Predistined and controlled repetitiveness.
 
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Cucumba said:
If you want to let licensors tell you what is and what is not official, knock yourself out.

----LATER----

I personally find d20 to be the best RPG system along in a very long time.
And officially sanctioned critical rules rock :p
Can we say contradictory?
 
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SailorAlea said:
Can we say contradictory?
No, because you don't know what I'm talking about . . .

Critical rules that are part of the system's infrastructure, as apposed to being sloppily added in. You are comparing a new feature in the structure to a feature that the company tells you is there and isn't. Find a new angle, because you are wrong.

I saw the original edit, and you are far from owning me little girl.
 
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omfg!


will u both knock it off

just play nice or not at all quit arguing for no reason
 
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In other words, you're selective about the Company which tells you how the rules are. Square Enix, no! Wizards Coast and HASBRO--YES!

Sloppily is just your opinion. However, you said:
"If you want to let licensors tell you what is and what is not official, knock yourself out."

It appears you fall under that category, just as the fanboys of the Square RPGs do. Sorry.
 
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OK I have seen enough someone please just put a bullet in this thread and lay it to rest for me please.
 
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It appears this thread has gone from "Online DnD MMORPG" to "let's try and attack eachother!"

Am I crossing any boundaries by putting a bullet in this thread as Majin Krillin asked?

*edit*
Rather putting a second bullet in the thread since Hibiki got to it before me....
 
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Let me explain slowly so you understand.

What I was talking about, was the fact that the D&D games mentioned by 1m4 were nothing more than side scrolling beat em ups with a rudementary leveling system . . . almost nothing from the actual game mechanics of D&D Basic were in that game. Yet the licensors added the D&D name to sell a game that was little more than magic sword in a an isometric view.

The original D&D, AD&D and AD&D 2nd edition didn't have a critcal hit system that was merged with the game mechanics. Player's Option added one on that was terribly complex and combersome, covering some 15 pages of text. This one was official and I hated it.

The one that came with d20, was the first one to be included in the mechanics from the ground up. Since I can only assume that what you know about D&D comes from Balder's Gate and other such video games, I can assure you that the game ran much smoother, and combat was much more interesting afterward. That was the meaning of official in this case.

Not that you care of course, you're talking out of your ass.

Cuc Gains 90 EXP! only 53430 til next level! -Magus (got the idea from hib in meh setinfo! \o/
 
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1.) You cannot compare a computer game to role playing with real people that are real friends in real life, in person.

D&D requires an imagination and a massive alotment of free time so it isn't for everyone. In video games you only have to imagine that you're not seeing everything. You have to pretend that even though there are invisible walls and really small cities that they are just condensed version of much bigger cities with thousands of people living in them. The difference is TV as opposed to reading a book. If you can't read, you can't play D&D, but you could hack your way through a lot of video game RPGs. People can stumble through imported role playing games by just feeling around and seeing what button attacks the enemy and what casts a spell.

2.) Everyone will have a different personal experience, but just because yours was bad doesn't mean the game is.

D&D is a different game every time you choose a new person to DM it or sit down with a new group of friends. Just because your friends suck doesn't mean the game does. D&D is great because it does have that flexibility, it doesn't have to be great every time you play it, nothing ever is, but if you are with friends that want to have fun you will probably have fun. A computer game isn't designed to be played a million different ways. Games like Neverwinter Nights are definitely flexible, but not a millionth as much as people sitting in a room talking about the rules when they have questions, or making dice rolls. Some people prefer the rules in a video or computer game because they are primarilly consistent, and some people prefer table top RPGs because the rules can conform to the playing style of the players.

Tabletop role-playing is one of the most immersive and inherantly flexible styles of gameplay in existence, but it requires you to have time, imagination, and a couple of friends that don't suck. Don't bash it until you've tried it (with friends who are serious but want to have a good time), and don't plunk it into the same category as a video game. Don't prejudge it, don't make fun of it, don't say it's stupid just because your friends do or because someone told you it was once. Play it and come up with your own conclusion, and then share it with your friends, just don't do it on the forums if you're going to start a fight.
 

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