Changes

[Carnage the 1]

I'm sure 1.2.2 is getting along nicely but already people are complaining about 1.2.1 being 'boring' and have stopped playing (myself included but that was 6 months ago )

So my idea is, besides bug fixes, why not make a few changes to keep things interesting?

If you know anything that you would like to be changed in the upcomming release, you can post your suggestions here.

 

[Smeg]

All the new interesting changes will be in 1.3, new maps, characters, transformations etc. 1.2.2 is only being released to fix the crashing. If you stop playing it 6 months ago you can aford to wait a while longer for 1.3
I myself haven't heard anyone say that esf 1.2.1 is boring, if you dont like the game dont play.

 

[imported_XXX]

All the new interesting changes will be in 1.3, new maps, characters, transformations etc. 1.2.2 is only being released to fix the crashing. If you stop playing it 6 months ago you can aford to wait a while longer for 1.3

Then ill be the first to say it to you........if you're as skilled as some of us...esf can get extremly boring....
So yea...I'm waiting for new gameplay features..something that will make the game more challenging to play. (It will probably never come...but yea, hope = good)

 

[Carnage the 1]

I have already moved on to diffrent games/mods but ESF is the one mod that always kept my attention, it's very unique in it's kind which is why I like it.

To my information 1.2.1 was also for bugfixing and that came out a long time ago. I'm just saying that a few minor changes in the gameplay might be a good idea, and I'd like to hear those from you guys.

 

[Rocky]

If they're gonna add new features its gonna push back the release date. 1.2.2 is an EMERGENCY bug fix for that horrible crash bug, postponing the release is out of the question. If you really like ESF you'll wait patiently like the rest of us.

 

[Carnage the 1]

Did I mention "ADD" anywhere in my previous posts? No, I said "changes".

(here we go again ;D)
I still hope that they remove that cursed tele delay and revert back simple melee to what it was back in 1.1. In my eyes, that would speed up the game bigtime. Hell, I'd probably play it again.

Now I'm wondering if any of you think the same or have other suggestions. I understand you would like the crashbug to be fixed asap, but 1.2 has been around for almost a year now and 1.3 isn't anywhere near done. Like I said in my first post: maybe the team can alter some stuff to keep things interesting, to let us discover new things that weren't possible before due to... <[whatever you don't like]> and maybe even change them.

I know that alot of people have stopped playing, that includes me. I do not enjoy other games the way I used to enjoy ESF and I still hope that one day I will be able to do so, just like in the good ol days.

I'm not trying to start a 1.1 vs 1.2 war here but I really think that 1.2 has had it's time... A simple crashbug fix isn't going to save it, maybe 1.3 will but as I mentioned before it's far from done. Since the beginning complaints have been around about 1.2 being too slow and whatever and there will always be complaints but I really think that by simply removing the tele delay and reverting the simple melee system you can do much more than you can now.

Think of it, 1.1 and 1.2 combined, only this time, both parties are happy. People have had problems with 1.2 because it was so different all of a sudden. Simple melee was changed, there was a tele-delay, the overal speed was decreased and ki consumption increased. I can live with most, but the first two just killed it.

In my opinion, I think that some changes are not inapropriate, I've stated my ideas above, and now it's your turn.

 

[Styx]

Let's just put it this way, no tele delay, same "simple melee" on mouse button 2 as 1.1 (meaning same pushbacks etc), and your prrrrrecious 1.2 adv melee. That would make 20% more people play this game (Including me).

Like it or not, but thats a fact.

 

[Rocky]

So instead of preparing ESF for 1.3 you want to go back to 1.1?

I somehow doubt the team will back track, nor do I think they're gonna be waiting on the edge of their seats to see all kinds of funky ideas that will come into this thread.

They know what they're doing. Leave it to them.

 

[Styx]

I just said that combining 1.2 plus the best parts of 1.1 will be for the best, that includes all the 1.3 transformations and whatnot.

And with best parts i mean the things i stated in my pervious post.

 

[Carnage the 1]

Back to 1.1? no, change 1.2 for it to be more similar to 1.1? yes.

Basically, what styx said. Simple melee rocked, so why change it in the first place? And if you change it, make it better, not worse.
And if the team knows what they are doing, then why am I and so many others not satisfied with this version?

And even though 1.1 was simple, it had speed.... Speed was the core of 1.0 and 1.1, if you were fast enough, the only thing you needed to do was attack. Now in 1.2, so many things are slow. Almost everything is limited to the game system, before it was limited to your ability and imagination.

If you ask me, 1.2 was a mistake, a big mistake. I'm just trying to propose some options that would more or less correct them.

 

[KarrdeKNR]

Keep in mind simple melee only rocked for those who practiced it for eternity. The game was esentially inaccesable for new players who would just get smacked down and think they game sucked. I personally think it's good that even if you're a good player, the best even, a total n00b can walk into the game and still get hits on you and there's little you can do about it. Makes it more balanced and accesible to other players.

 

[Carnage the 1]

Then what is the point of playing? Of course, you want to have fun, but don't you want to get better? What is the point of practicing when any n00b can hit you and you can't do shiat about it. If the n00bs wanted you dead that bad, they were going to have to work for it, thus meaning that they'd play more ESF.

But now, if you screw up one arrow and they happen to know the combo, you're screwed. If you get hit by them with simple melee, they only need to press teleport or swoop and get another free hit.

In 1.1 if you got hit, the enemy still had to pull of some moves to get a second hit, whether you fell on the ground or not. If your opponent was really good, he could pull off several hits in one combo.
You had to be on guard all the time, there were no 'breaks' where you could rest and focus on arrows but in 1.2, once you're in advanced melee, the game stops.

Take Unreal Tournament, there are no hardly any restrictions there, yet I don't see n00bs complaining about it being too hard. Even in 1.2 there is a difference in skill, there always will be, but why is UT2004 such a succes? Because it provides fun for EVERYONE, whether you rock or you just got the game. It's user-friendly, not n00b-friendly and that's where ESF messes up.

The team thought it would be a good idea if they restricted the combos and put a tele delay in so everyone could keep up. Bad idea, they only managed to slow the game down. Scripters weren't a problem, if you had to script you usually sucked at everything else anyway. If you were good scripting, you'd had to have skill in the first place and even then a mousewheel could do the exact same.

You don't have to practice for eternity, I only played for half a year to become good at it and I know alot of people who also liked 1.1 even though they weren't that good. The idea was to BECOME good, to play and play, because practice makes perfect and what is cooler than anihalating everyone in the server? It's a DBZ mod, so of course you want to beat your opponent, it's called competition.

Back in 1.1. if your opponent was as good as you were, you could have some pretty cool fights with sick combos and swoop-tactics but now all you do are the same combo over and over and a few kiblasts, what fun is that?
Just look at a fight, does it come anywhere close to DBZ? No, simple as that. Now remember 1.1, if you saw two people (especially the really good ones) fight eachother, you'd have one hell of a show.

The 1.1 system was simple, but it had many ways of using it, so everyone developed their own style of playing which made things interesting. Yet in 1.2, you can't because you are restricted by that very gameplay. By speeding things up and reverting back to the old melee system, you'd have that + advanced melee! Think of the possibilties that brings. Even better would be if you could link simple melee to advanced melee (simple melee-> advanced melee->'hidden' combo->kill).
Now that'd be cool.

 

[Shao]

I don't want that blasted targeting system that was associated with 1.1 basic melee. Hopefully you weren't implying that either.

 

[Carnage the 1]

No, not at all, I agree that the double tapping systems works better, giving you more freedom which is good

 

[Zeonix]

When i first started playing esf in 1.1, i got rocked quite often. Thats what i loved about the game. Being hit without being able to see where you were hit from was awesome. It also made me want to be good. I actually played esf many a school night because it was so much fun and i wanted to be good at the game.

Melee + super speed + no tele-delay= coojo.

 

[Styx]

When i first started playing esf in 1.1, i got rocked quite often. Thats what i loved about the game. Being hit without being able to see where you were hit from was awesome. It also made me want to be good. I actually played esf many a school night because it was so much fun and i wanted to be good at the game.

Melee + super speed + no tele-delay= coojo.

Amen.

The double tap thingy is a good idea, makes you "free" to move around as much as possible.

 

[DJ-Ready]

I'd say, we need more room to expand your skills BUT I don't want to go back to 1.1 simple melee
perhaps edit the current simple melee a bit (there are already suggetions by the team and bt's about that floating around for quite a while). the 1.1 melee would just not work with the double tab swoop. and we cant put back in targeting since you wold have a big disadvantage against someone whos not using targeting (if targeting is optional - no way to make targeting a must again)

 

[Carnage the 1]

I don't see why you couldn't use 1.1 simple melee with double tap swooping. Sure you'd probably have to learn it first and get used to it, but it's very possible.

Personally I cannot think of a better version of simple melee than what 1.1 had. Even in my new melee system I used the very same concept.

 

[Chrono5788]

I've seen many people disregard this game as crap just because they've been beaten down by pros. The thing is, not a lot of people want to spend the time to download a mod, then read the manual, then go in the game, then slowly figure out what the manual said, then get owned by a pro using simple melee and/or advanced melee combos because they haven't been playing the game for months and/or didn't read the manual thoroughly enough.

In a way, this is sort of nice, since it breaks down the community into what I think is a more fun and interesting set of people (that're willing to spend time to learn the intricacies of a new game).

However, this is also bad, because what ends up happening is you get a lack of different personalities to interact with, and potentially different styles to fight against. However, those previous two problems are 3% of what makes up the negatives of a smaller community, the other 97% would have to be the fact that there are no freakin' servers.

And yes, I know there are servers running, but you need to factor out the listen servers, as they, uh... Go down..., the servers that crash constantly and never leave the 2nd map in the cycle when more than 5 people are playing, and the servers that ban people that're good or have otherwise abusive admins.

The only servers I find myself left with here on the East coast is the Ape clan server and occasionally Mr. Satan's server, but I haven't seen that one for a while and the lack of diamonds is sort of frustrating.

Anyway, yeah, keep advanced melee in - If you let yourself get hit by an advanced user, well, that's your fault, and you get the bonus of being able to dodge even though you already missed your chance during free flight. Advanced melee is more noob friendly, while at the same time makes bashing noobs much easier, and adds some variety to play.

As for simple, well, the only thing I can think of is to either A) Abolish the teleport delay, B) Lower it a lot, C) Disable scripting (which would suck, I like my turbo charge script o: ). In addition to that, give Trunks his simple melee sword effect back and increase knockback speed to the point where untransed Trunks/Gohan needs to teleport in order to get the 2nd hit.

Oh, and something I've always sort of wondered about - When you're walking and release the direction keys, your character quickly decelerates into a stop. When you're flying, you stop instantly, but when you move again, you can sort of feel it curve a little. Is this intended?

 

[TheMasta]

When i first started playing esf in 1.1, i got rocked quite often. Thats what i loved about the game. Being hit without being able to see where you were hit from was awesome. It also made me want to be good. I actually played esf many a school night because it was so much fun and i wanted to be good at the game.

Wow their are still people in these forums that know what they are talking about...

the 1.1 melee would just not work with the double tab swoop.

Ur wrong, the 1.1 melee wouldn't work with teleport delay. But since the team has already decided that it won't be removed they dug their own grave. In 1.0 and 1.1 u needed skill to play the game, that's why it would never die. U might have som "cool" things like new transformations and **** but after a week or so u've seen the whole game, no challenges, no nothing. If i want something good looking i'll play som halflife 2 mods instead.

-Urs sincerely, TheMasta