Anyone thinks differently?

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BAAAAAAAAAAAAAD idea esforums + politics = DEATH TO HUMANITY
 

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I'm just going to wait and see. If you're right, I won't do it again. If you're wrong, I won't do it again but I'll be glad I did! :p
 
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tl;dw

what about a quick recap of it all?
 
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[Edit] Sorry for my randomness but which kinda political are you talking about?

Let me explain, if those other opinions are outside of your country, the man said he loves israel and he wants to be a politician. That means, he wants to protect that country and work for it. So he didn't came here to offend everybody, but he is here to tell the truth. If you think he is lying than prove that he was.
 
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So far, five minutes in, I agree with what he's said. Sadly I don't have time to watch all of it. It is a reality that this is not a war of occupation and oppression or sovereignity vs. the will of the international community. This is a holy war, with religious zealotry fueling both sides. This is a clash of cultures that are not compatible at fundamental levels. If we don't confront those ideas, there will be bloodshed for hundreds of years more no matter which slick lawyer gets elected to which government.

Bottom line, five minutes in, I wish there were more guys like him governing in the Middle East.
 
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i thought it was fairly interesting .... but the writing and script he was reading was extremely carefully written from what i can see. basically he just wants the blood n violence to end, he doesnt really care or rather they never mention what the conflict is about. ideologically (religiously) there is a feud amongst them but also, Zionists did take that land from the Palestinians the entire thing was theirs, n then they got shoved out n dont really like the idea. but **** ... **** happens, lands get conquered all the time n u gotta find some place new (should just b happy they didn't get wiped out). but it's a religious place so ppl fight for it. the right thing to do would be to just let it go n always just follow the path of peace.

the whole religious war aspect of it is a bit more complex. basically religiously muslims dont trust jews because of the crap that they did in the biblical texts. when first brought religion they were the ones to go against it soon after .... and also the treatment of Jesus Christ, so that's why they are generally looked at as untrustworthy n esp that they dont believe in heaven or hell, thought causes more conflicts. basically in religious texts about the Judgement Day (Doomsday) when the world will basically end n the Apocalypse happens, it is written that it will happen because of the zionist state of israel. basically some guy is going to rise up in our political ranks (the anti-christ) born with only a left eye or something. n he is going to promise a world of peace or heaven or whatever. n it says this will happen with the combined forces of the West and Israel. He will be under their protection.

or some **** like that. so basically thats about it. i probably didnt get it exactly right .... all i know is israel plays a big part in it. but thing about fate is .... those Palestinians arent exactly doing any good .... trying to delay the inevitable is kidna stupid if everything is supposed to happen anyway. u cant really delay it or anything. but there's corrupt ppl everywhere .... having some war to wage against someone causes a lot of cash flow to be moved around .... guns arent exactly free u know. ppl get greedy like power n impose their will on ppl.

and the whole statement he makes on Jesus Christ isnt him saying he's christian .... Jesus Christ is a prophet in Islam as well and his principle he taught n his legacy he left behind was .... Love thy enemy .... which is why he says ... he loves Israel.. it was all a bit tricky n very calculated.

all in all it sux palestinians lost their land .... n coexistence n sharing seems quite impossible because of the distaste for one another. tbh that land is religious to Jews, Muslims, & Christians .... NO ONE SHOULD CONTROL IT!!!! Palestinians gotta go someplace else .... or else just waste away even more into that psychotic chaos .... warped minds n brains. breeding of killers n zombies is never a good thing.
 

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So far, five minutes in, I agree with what he's said. Sadly I don't have time to watch all of it. It is a reality that this is not a war of occupation and oppression or sovereignity vs. the will of the international community. This is a holy war, with religious zealotry fueling both sides. This is a clash of cultures that are not compatible at fundamental levels. If we don't confront those ideas, there will be bloodshed for hundreds of years more no matter which slick lawyer gets elected to which government.

Bottom line, five minutes in, I wish there were more guys like him governing in the Middle East.
I didn't watch five minutes in but I very much agree with your bottom line.

And Vector, I agree the writing was carefully written, but can you argue with the integrity and logic it contains?
 

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Fortnox, I think you are selectively choosing to take the war on Iraq to be the symbol of all wars.
It's not all about profits - that's a convenient way of looking at things but it's much deeper than that here.

I know I may be the wrong person to bring this up however; it is almost painfully clear to me that the purest hatred is being taught to very young kids very early in their lives who are timid and innocent. They are taught to be violent and demonize Israel and its inhabitants. If it weren't for that education this conflict would have been long over. I am not afraid of missiles or machinery, I am afraid of poisoned minds and distraught thoughts.

How else could you find sense in the deal Israel had with Hamas last month? (Gilad Shalit = One Israeli Captive ~~~ in exchange for ~~~ One Thousand Arabs -> some of them accused for BRUTAL MURDER OF ISRAELIS -> ALL OF THEM PRISONERS)

The murderers were welcomed warmly and were announced as heroes.
I'm not the biggest fan of Israel but we would never ever make a champion out of a murderer even if he only murdered enemies.
There's no glory in slaughtering, only in rescuing.
 
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I'm not the biggest fan of Israel but we would never ever make a champion out of a murderer even if he only murdered enemies.
What you just wrote here is a lie. Either you have been fed propaganda, or no one ever told you how your country was founded...
 
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Lol what's funny is that if you change his first name's last letter b to its mirror image 'd', you get 'mosad'. An israeli killing machine, heck he even mention's he was a top secret agent selling his own people.
This person is I'm sorry to say is speaking a 100% BS and israel has most likely learnt from the US on how to brainwash.

You don't have to be a researcher to find out how twisted(stupid even) this speech was, if israel is recognised as a jewish state then why does this man talk about Jesus Christ who they infact label as a false messiah.

PUT THE PIECES OF THE PUZZLE TOGETHER.

America = Israel
Israel = America
 

sg2

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What you just wrote here is a lie. Either you have been fed propaganda, or no one ever told you how your country was founded...
I'm not saying I'm happy with Israel's location especially for it being founded on grounds that didn't really belong to it.
But you have to remember it was founded because the world didn't really welcome the Jewish, and they suffered the holocaust.

... By the way, who is the murderer Israel made a champion of? In the era we're living in, if an Israeli goes out there and bombs himself in order to get rid of as many Arabs as possible, he is not a hero. He is a terrorist.

Anyway, I don't know what your full opinion is. You seem very confident in your position yet you emit a lot of one-sided affection towards one side over the other without thoroughly explaining yourself. I may not be very good at explaining myself either, but I have experienced the mentalities and I know which is more violent and cold blooded and which is more warm and forgiving. I can even distinguish between the ones who want warmth from the ones who want pride-based revenge.
 
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I'm not saying I'm happy with Israel's location especially for it being founded on grounds that didn't really belong to it.
But you have to remember it was founded because the world didn't really welcome the Jewish, and they suffered the holocaust.
I wasn't talking about just where it was founded, but how. And don't give me that crap about the Holocaust - Israel was a project that had been ongoing for decades before that became even a vague possibility. Israel had trained an army so powerful that none of its neighbouring countries could even touch it by the time they actually "got" the land. Terrorism, illegalities, corruption, and xenophobia are the founding pillars of the nation you live in. It's true that this could be said of more than one nation, but that doesn't excuse it, nor does it excuse that you think Israel doesn't hail its murderers as champions.

Terrorists and assassins were given important positions following Britain's cave-in and Israel's birth. An example given here could be Menachem Begin, a man who is famous for leading several Irgun attacks (and Irgun itself). Irgun, as you might know, was not a very nice organization, nor was its splinter Lehi any nicer. You can bet that a whole host of their "champions" were given a warm welcome in Israel.

At Norwegian universities there are lectures on this subject, though controversial (seeing as Israel has no problem branding my entire country antisemitic for disagreeing with their white-washing of history and militaristic attitudes).

I'm not saying I don't understand the xenophobia, but that doesn't make me appreciate the hypocrisy.
 
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im telling you guys .... it's just a massive religious war. the biggest problem they have is where the land of Jerusalem lays on the borders. sure zionists are FOR two states .... but whenever they draw a suggestion for the border lines, jerusalem is on Israel side no matter what .... and that's why Palestinians always refuse amongst the other reasons that they just took their land without permission
 

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For all I know Israel was founded because the world wasn't taking kindly to Jewish people and so Ertzel decided to make a "Home for the Jewish" where they can all accumulate when they are no longer accepted elsewhere.

I don't honestly know what went on at 1947 other than what I was taught in school for I don't believe in History to be "truth only" because it could very well be truth mixed with some subjective opinions.
There was more than one organization however, and some of them were terrorists indeed. "Irgun" by the way is directly translated to "Organization" as it's the Hebrew word for it. There was Irgun ETZEL and Irgun LEHI which you've mentioned. But the word "IRGUN" itself isn't a name and there wasn't such organization (but I can see why you got it confused - because in that wikipedia they say "Irgun" and not "ETZEL" - but if you go down in the page you'll see they state "Irgun Etzel" - click Ctrl+F and type Etzel).
I'm not going to argue whether or not murderers were seen as champions 60 years ago since I wasn't around that time, I can only share what I have seen so far in the past 20 years and I know that today such descriptions of Israel hailing its murderers as champions are false and that the war that is going on now is more about religion, nature and mentality of the people and education for hatred from young age rather than the invasions and conquering of the past.
 
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Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon come to mind when mentioning Israel hailing its murderers as champions. Also, I view Israel as a little Rome. Rome had the tendency to cry foul and attack everyone around them because "they were threats to the security of the nation state". Of course, it turned out this defensively aggressive mentality was formed to gain massive tracts of land, increasing the size of their nation, ultimately culminating in the Roman Empire. After some time, they stopped pretending to be the little guy trying not to be bullied by those surrounding it, and went full-on imperialistic. This is pretty much the case with Israel. I'm sure they believe the land is already theirs and they're just reclaiming it as the chosen people, but its all bull****.

I'd go into the USS Liberty and how they basically used terrorism to goad the Arabs into attacking them initially to create moral support from the West, but what's the point? Israel is one giant propaganda machine and if you don't completely agree with their narrative, you're anti-semitic (while, of course, ignoring the fact that Arabs are also semitic).
 

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Just to be sure, I hope you do realize I'm seeing "murder" as killing another human being not for self-defense.

Israel is not gaining massive tracts of land it's only negotiating whether to share land that is already owned by itself.
You will not see or hear Israel claiming "Jordan is ours!" and then go about and reclaim it.
The whole point is that "Two Lands for Two Nations" where the current Israel exists and what the Arabs already have also exist (which is a lot more if you examine the map - by far more).

"they were threats to the security of the nation state" <- Unlike in Rome, today we have cameras, radios and all the communication that's required to prove when it's a real threat and when it isn't.
Gaza is a good example where for the past 8 years you could literally film the missiles flying aimlessly into Israeli borders in Shderot and Ashkelon (very weak missiles that wouldn't cause you harm other than sound blasts unless they strike within range of 10 meters but it's still frightening as hell to be living under such daily threat ~~~ you of all people should know?).

I noticed that everyone that's involved in this debate always brings up that "anti-semitic" tag. No one is calling you ANTI-SEMITIC! Get it out of your heads and leave it for the Neo Nazis.
 
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Just to be sure, I hope you do realize I'm seeing "murder" as killing another human being not for self-defense.

Israel is not gaining massive tracts of land it's only negotiating whether to share land that is already owned by itself.
You will not see or hear Israel claiming "Jordan is ours!" and then go about and reclaim it.
The whole point is that "Two Lands for Two Nations" where the current Israel exists and what the Arabs already have also exist (which is a lot more if you examine the map - by far more).

"they were threats to the security of the nation state" <- Unlike in Rome, today we have cameras, radios and all the communication that's required to prove when it's a real threat and when it isn't.
Gaza is a good example where for the past 8 years you could literally film the missiles flying aimlessly into Israeli borders in Shderot and Ashkelon (very weak missiles that wouldn't cause you harm other than sound blasts unless they strike within range of 10 meters but it's still frightening as hell to be living under such daily threat ~~~ you of all people should know?).

I noticed that everyone that's involved in this debate always brings up that "anti-semitic" tag. No one is calling you ANTI-SEMITIC! Get it out of your heads and leave it for the Neo Nazis.
Which is precisely what those men, among many others, are guilty of.

Israel has already gained large amounts of land that they really had no right to, which is pretty much the dilemma in a nutshell. Israel claims the land is theirs and has always been theirs, despite Israel not existing in the time frame the arabs owned the land. The Arabs claim they've been there longer, and so its theirs. Neither side is willing to budge. If you're going to argue Israel hasn't gained any land, you're out of your mind. Here's a picture that's been floating around forever and a day:

Israel-Palestine_maps1.jpg

As for threats to Israeli security, yeah the **** right. Oh no. Someone is firing dummy rockets where maybe 1 out of 100 actually hit something. Let's respond to those rockets by killing everyone in sight. That isn't overreacting at all. And you're right. I do know. I expect to be mortared because I traveled a gazillion miles across the planet to go this country and blow **** up. It's to be expected. What did you think was going to happen when Israel decided to start kicking out families that have lived in the region for generations. Rockets full of flowers? Hell, even today, they're being displaced, their homes being leveled so that Israeli expansion can continue. A few Americans have been killed by Israelis while protesting these actions, and no one batted an eye. Every action has a consequence. That's Israel's go to concept when they decide to use white phosphorous on civilian population centers eg. Lebanon. It shouldn't be a foreign idea to anyone who defends Israel's actions. What's that? A flotilla full of protesters? Better fast rope in and use live rounds. What do you mean these bullet wounds and burns to their skin are consistent with execution-style killings after the boat had already been assaulted? That's weird. Must be some kind of misunderstanding.

Israel gets no sympathy from me. It's bad enough that our nation has to basically pay em off every year to be friendly. But then they want to steal our **** and sell it to our enemies? They want to kill our civilians and military personnel on top of it? Mission accomplishment by any means, right? Right.

As for the anti-semitic remark, it isn't something I pulled out of a hat. It gets thrown out enough by Israeli-apologists that even Jews are being labeled as such for not agreeing with Israel's domestic and foreign policy.
 
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