1.3's Swoop

[VideoJinx]

To be honest, it sounds overcomplicated and counter-intuitive.

By forcing the player into a "mode" you take away freedom of movement, while at the same time adding an additional stamina system, which just seems totally pointless.

Keeping the "feature" that only allows the player to stop when they tap powerup/block just is just confining, especially with the system you've devised.

This is worse than 1.3's current movement system.

Esf needs freedom of movement, it doesnt need to feel like a confusing knock off of Sparking Neo.

From your comment im not sure if you even understood the concept.. ill try to simplify it...(also this adds freedom and doesn't take it away, also.. sparking neo? ive never played dunno what your talkin about....Also the "stamina system" its not an actuall stamina system, it just slows you down after you swoop past the limit, where you'de normally be forced to stop in 1.2.... plz try to understand this concept.. IT adds onto what 1.2 doesn't have without taking away 1.2's unique Touch)

Ok here it is.. Take 1.2's swoop and slap it on 1.3..

Now we have the base of our new swoop. Now, instead of the swoop stopping after I swoop for so long, it slows down to my character minimum swoop speed, and it still burns ki. Now, if i decide to stop without powering up or blocking, then swoop again, my swoop will still be slow until I powerup or block, which exits the swoop mode. To swoop again after exiting the swoop-mode, ide just double tap and hold (just like in 1.2), but 7seconds after i enter the mode the speed of my swoop will slow down.

7 seconds, because thats about how long it takes for 1.2's swoop to automaticly stop when swooping. Also, after entering the swoop mode with a double tap(the first swoop).. any addition swoops are done with "single taps and hold". (Holding down the direction to keep swooping, and if you release you stop)

Once you've doubletapped and entered the swoop mode, you can continue swooping in different directions with just a single tap and hold, and if you stop without powering up the charater's floating animation will look as if he's ready to fight.

This is a ADD-ON to 1.2's swoop, not a "TAKE-AWAY" or "CHANGE in 1.2's Main Structure" I honestly believe this will speed up the gameplay by far with out the need for speeding up a character. Also this way of swooping will mold newer players into the Pro style of playing.. Learning ki control right off the bat... because with this swoop concept you'll want to powerup right after stopping so you can keep your speed up, but to use it effectively, you'll have to master double-tapping(like in 1.2). it also adds a new "gameplay" to the field of strategy, the ability to swoop as long as you want as long as you have enough ki......but when should you use it because of the speed decrease after swooping for too long?

 

[M4ksiu]

Little senteces from me to that idea. I think it's good, but what about adding block and firing ki attacks (only beams) to swoops too? That block should also work only on beams too, becouse to stand agains powerful waves like kamehame or final flash you can't just block it.

This block should work like reflection to not worry about stop swooping becouse of those beams.

Imho those 2 will improve gameplay.

Next idea is to make characters transformable while swooping (just in perf trans modes). It will add more dragonball feeling to game.

 

[VideoJinx]

I think if ki blasts were usable while swooping, they should have a MUCH SLOWER firing rate.. and the damage should be the same..

I also think if you hit by a ki blast that was shot when swooping.. then it should knock you back and out of fly mode so that you fall..(no recovery needed, its not like being hit with basic melee)

 

[M4ksiu]

Mayby less, but Imho firing rate should be increased in normal state. Just imagine that situation when Vegeta was firing beams on Cell on his tournament. It was very fast. In ESF it isn't looking in this way. You can just fire (if you reload) 4 beams at once.

We can see on TB2 too to see some nice ideas which can be impleted to 1.3. I hope too that devs after finishing 1.3 will release sources so nice modifications can come.

 

[Mountain Dewd]

I understood the Idea perfectly.

I just didnt like it.

Being stuck in swoop (and a slow one after second seconds) until you disengage by using block or powerup, is stupid.

It doesnt bring stratergy to thet table, it brings frustration.

 

[Zeonix]

I don't see the point in augmenting the 1.2 swoop system in such a way that you can swoop until you run out of ki, albeit slowly. Being able to swoop for only so long adds strategy to the way one manuevers. How so? Knowing that a swoop lasts for around 4 seconds, one would hold the movement ki until the last possible moment, at which point one would chain swoop. Sometimes coming up short (swooping and suddenly stopping right in front of your enemy) can be frustrating, but it isn't a problem with the system. It's a minor (or not so minor) miscalculation on the part of the player. Learning the proper timing for certain manuevers is a big part of the game. To remove that would only serve to make ESF friendlier to people who believe going head first into everything is a viable strategy.

The "fire ki blasts while swooping" idea has been suggested numerous times. Personally, I'd welcome it but only because I know I'd be able to do quite a bit of damage. I realize, however, that this feature would be extremely annoying, especially to people who view gen beams and ki blasts as attacks that should never be used.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

The "fire ki blasts while swooping" idea has been suggested numerous times. Personally, I'd welcome it but only because I know I'd be able to do quite a bit of damage. I realize, however, that this feature would be extremely annoying, especially to people who view gen beams and ki blasts as attacks that should never be used.

People think like that because ki blasts and gen beams do wayy too much damage in esf and is overpowered. If the hp damage was reduced by alot then it would become fair. It would also open the door to firing ki attacks while swooping, but doing this would make your shots less accurate.

 

[Zeonix]

I agree that both ki blast and gen beams should be nerfed, but that doesn't change the fact that being able to fire ki blasts may very well be the deciding factor in fights. It is very easy to chip away at your opponents hp with ki blasts and gen beams, and it is easy to force your opponent to fight aggressively as a result of your projectile onslaught. One leads to the other, allowing you to set up a pretty lengthy combo, potentially killing your opponent in 3-4 moves.

In my opinion, we would be better off using 1.2's swoop system as is, rather than implement Jinx's idea.

 

[VideoJinx]

I understood the Idea perfectly.

I just didnt like it.

Being stuck in swoop (and a slow one after second seconds) until you disengage by using block or powerup, is stupid.

It doesnt bring stratergy to thet table, it brings frustration.

.... Ide like to know how you consider yourself being stuck in swoop?...

in 1.2 people tend to powerup after stopping.. if you they dont they usually are "newer players and dunno how to control ki"

imagine 1.2's , but instead of the swoop stopping after so long.. it slows down until you stop and powerup...

 

[Mountain Dewd]

The hold and release method feels alot more natural.

What you're suggesting is more like 1.3's current system, and I dont even need to explain why that's a horrible control scheme.

 

[VideoJinx]

------------------> I understood the Idea perfectly. <----------------

I just didnt like it.

Being stuck in swoop (and a slow one after second seconds) until you disengage by using block or powerup, is stupid.

It doesnt bring stratergy to thet table, it brings frustration.

wow.... IT IS HOLD AND RELEASE ....what the heck are you talking about.......jeebus....( read more carefully before commenting, Grasp the entire idea before rejecting it..-_-+)

Maybe i should rename the "swoop mode" to "combat mode" or "ready mode" so it's easier to understand, and you may get less confused.

To enter "Ready Mode"( which is NOT A SWOOP) you double tap which makes your character start swooping. If you want to continue swooping you'de have to HOLD down the button JUST like in 1.2. In 1.2 you double tap and hold to begin swooping, It's the exact same thing..... But now by double tapping, you've ENTERED the "Ready Mode" where swoops are done with a "single tap and hold." Also in the "Ready Mode" there is no timelimit to how long you can fly like in 1.2. In 1.2 your swoop STOPS after 4 to 5 seconds of swooping. In this idea, the swoop SLOWS DOWN after 4 to 5 seconds of swooping, BUT keep in mind that in this mode you are able to SWOOP WITH a "SINGLE tap and HOLD" while in this "Ready mode"

IF if you POWERUP or BLOCK it exits the "Ready Mode",... Now if i single tap in a direction when OUT of "Ready Mode" my character wont swoop he'll just fly slowly LIKE in 1.2.......

And once again... TO ENTER the "ready mode" you double tap, AND HOLD if you wish to continue swooping.

Now hopefully you understand how this works... and maybe you can Now see that this would make players WANT to use powerup right after stoping, even tho it exits the swoop mode, and forces them to "double tap" and hold to enter it again( Forces them to doubletap to swoop, LIKE IN 1.2). The Benifit doing that, is for the first 4 to 5 seconds of swooping, your speed is at it's maximum... powering up after stoping then swooping again allows you to maintain that swoop speed, but also is the option to use a single tap to swoop @ a slower speed,

 

[Mountain Dewd]

It may shock you to hear this, but I dont come here to shoot down your Ideas, its just that so far, they've been horrible.

Apart from where you've contradicted yourself (especially in regards to this "ready mode")I understand the concept, its just that while I understand you're trying to bring new elements of stratergy to the game, these wouldn't mesh with actual gameplay, Esf doesnt need two modes of swoop, what it needs is a fun and flexible movement system like 1.2.

I will praise you this time for actually thinking your Idea through, its always a good Idea to put yourself in the mindset of the player when trying to figure this stuff out, but my opinion, this Idea is needlessly complex and when it comes down to it, it wouldnt actually be an enjoyable feature to have in the game, and use on a regular basis.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

i agree with him, but i want to say that you should organize your ideas a little better so that they are a little easier to understand and not so boring that you skim through the entire thing

example, put sections and titles on it. label the different ideas or what parts of the idea is which.

 

[DJKiwi]

i personally hate the swooping and dashing system of 1.3 and like his idea..
the 1.3 system feels really unusual and weird.. much more difficult to control and make fast and unpredictable moves.. though this could also be because of being used to the 1.2.3 system..
that was much faster.. i like speed in this game, when i play 1.2.3 i get irritated because its soooo slow.. thats why i liked evm in the beginning.. but evm sucks becuz of it beigh unbalanced.. but the speed was so much more for the expert players.. its much more difficult with the speed

 

[Crescent]

CON's and PRO's

i dont know if this is still up for a debate but i'll share my thoughts.

ok i read all this and this is based of what i remember... >.<

ki blast's being able to be fired while swooping, yes nice idea,
gen beam's..... get lost... think of the people that swoop around the whole map blasting gen beam's and stop once to recharge then dejavu..... the ki blast one is great.. but gen , a big no.

jinx from what i made out from your idea's which i really dont think any of them got, or maybe they did but didnt see it in the same way.
well from what i made out...... this is how it is.

you can move freely like you can in esf 1.2/1.3 (not talking bout swoop here, i'm talking about moving in any direction freely)

when you double tap forward left right or back, you enter swoop mode, and when the swoop mode is enable, you can fly as far as you like as long as you like, but over time your swoop will get slower like a car going 100 mph, and letting go off the accelerator, you would slow down over time until you barely moved, or run out of stamina in this case. ( i said below that swoop should drain ki, and every time you pass 6-8 w/e second's it drain's stamina off you ( or swoop stamina in jinx's idea) )but you will fly like a plane, till you run out of fuel, or the pilot tire's >.<) OO analogy's and bad spellings..maybe..

once in swoop mode, you can chain swoop it with one tap like existing esf 1.3
jinx's idea doesn't change how you control the swoop, it just changes the swoop ok people... >.<

your ki ( or swoop stamina, i think it should just drain your ki ) is linked to the speed of the swoop, the more ki you have the longer you can swoop, you will only stop swooping when a collision with something else is envolved or if you let go of forward/back/left/right, same control's as esf 1.2, and in esf 1.3 when you swoop, double tap forward, you keep swooping even if you let go. (dont argue about 1.3 swoop and 1.2, it will be done like 1.2, press and hold).

with the swoop system jinx made it's esf 1.2 swoop + swoop for ages as long as you have ki, and the speed of your swoop depend's on stamina, but this mean's you only have to press forward once to swoop round the map a couple of times. which make's life easier in some ways.

To swoop fast again, i must exit the "swoop mode"

this mean's that after 6-7 odd second's you can let go of forward and stop swooping. and start again at the fast speed however you can carry on at a slower speed.. the swoop continue's until you have no ki or you stop it.

even with this idea. the big counter to it, in a fight, will be using free fall after 8 second's of swooping, because free fall is faster than swoop, then enable the swoop again to get the big speed up back. this will be the fastest way to move around the map.. with this sytem.

how ever that would be countered if you can teleport, right in the middle of your swoop.

brief idea of what i think jinx explained. endless swooping(till your ki runs out) that slow's down over time(drains swoop stamina), but is controlled in the same way 1.3 is, but you have to hold the button down.

i think you ment this too >.<

i said that swoop still takes ki, and the swoop speed slow's down only draining swoop stamina. ( or possibly just a little bit of stamina at a time keeping things connected to one system that's already in the game).

well i gtg so i'll prob post more of my thoughts later...