1.3 = Not what you expected?

[dan_esf_fanatic]

I just want to point out no one really gives a crap about Tien being ingame. "A whole friggin ESF community" is actually like 3 people who love Tien for some reason.

Kudos to Pcjoe for being honest.

I give a crap. What I don't give a crap about is Ginyu. Probably won't ever even use him. What I don't understand is why the team didn't just make tien instead of Ginyu. He's the strongest human alive and plays a major role in DBZ, and is seen through the whole friggin series. Ginyu appears in 10 episodes and that's it.

EDIT: Oh and here's an idea, team. Why don't you complete all the animations first, then we'll be able to use your awesome models in 1.2. I know you think they'll be incompatible, but don't worry, I've tested them, and they work the same way as in 1.3. Which isn't the case when transfered 1.2 models into 1.1, which caused the models to act like they were retarded ^_^

 

[Devion]

I for one am glad that advanced melee is being redone for the 1000th time.
First of all I can imagine it's pretty hard to come up with a melee system that doesnt get boring, but also doesnt have a too steep learning curve.

Second of all, this means that ESF team already have explored many options of advanced melee, which can only mean that the final advanced melee system will be uber. =]

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Pcjoe]

I give a crap. What I don't give a crap about is Ginyu. Probably won't ever even use him. What I don't understand is why the team didn't just make tien instead of Ginyu. He's the strongest human alive and plays a major role in DBZ, and is seen through the whole friggin series. Ginyu appears in 10 episodes and that's it.

That's nice... You apparently have a lot of love for the character. Go and finish him up for us then. If he's done, we'll add him.

EDIT: Oh and here's an idea, team. Why don't you complete all the animations first, then we'll be able to use your awesome models in 1.2. I know you think they'll be incompatible, but don't worry, I've tested them, and they work the same way as in 1.3. Which isn't the case when transfered 1.2 models into 1.1, which caused the models to act like they were retarded ^_^

I don't think you should assume that we don't know how to make models compatible with our own game ^_^ Slight problem though - the same melee animations aren't going to be used in 1.3. We would prefer if DT didn't spend countless hours creating animations just so you could use them in 1.2. No one is stopping you from doing it though. Feel free to decompile those models and import them into 1.2.

 

[Kama]

One thing that just kills it for me is the new swooping. If you guys just changed it back to the way it was, then it would be fine.

Joe already said it, but I thought i'd just expand on it a bit just so it's easier to understand. Swoop is still in the game, however it's now used for travel not battle. (The Swoop i'm talking about is the holding charge and a direction.) If you feel it needs to be faster, whether charge time or speed, then post your suggestion of it. But right now it's strictly to travel across levels.

The traditional swoop has been changed to Dash, because our melee system is going to be real time and close battles. The Dash isn't meant to travel or to "glide" but to merely close short distances between you and other players. Once the Melee system is in place you'll see how dash was meant to work. Remember, this is an open beta so there are alot of features that are missing their linked feature so they may feel clunky and useless, but they have a point. Read our design documents to get a better feel for it.

I give a crap. What I don't give a crap about is Ginyu.

Pretty much because he's different. Why add another character who can transform like everyone else and be really just a model change with new attacks when we can add an entirely new class with new options and abilities? Buddy System? Body Swap? Purple man in speedo? I personally love Ginyu.

Oh and here's an idea, team. Why don't you complete all the animations first,

Animations are probably the fastest moving part of ESF right now, and considering only DT is really doing them, yeah.

 

[Basslover722]

well in my oppinion...i actually like the swooping. Its kinda fun. But is there supposed to be a new character slelection screen cause all i see is the old one just with the new characters. My only disapointment was the models...like when transforming i didn't get a kid buu and why does frieza go straight to full powered frieza in just one trans? But other than this i actually like 1.3 earlier today i was ona cool server and konkong was there and so was webber. we all had fun beating the crap aout eacother.

 

[elNarr]

meh, 1.3 sucks more than i expected.

-swooping is exaggerated and noob friendly.
-ginyu's buddy is useless
-i got in 1.2.3 100fps, but in 1.3 i get 50 fps -.- so i could call esf fps eater
-too much details for my taste
-too much concentrated to beams, thus more beam spammers..

so it seems simplicity pwns, too bad nobody likes 1.1 anymore
sure, there are lots of good things about 1.3, and i pretty much like it, but too many useless things :|

 

[Grega]

well in my oppinion...i actually like the swooping. Its kinda fun. But is there supposed to be a new character slelection screen cause all i see is the old one just with the new characters. My only disapointment was the models...like when transforming i didn't get a kid buu and why does frieza go straight to full powered frieza in just one trans? But other than this i actually like 1.3 earlier today i was ona cool server and konkong was there and so was webber. we all had fun beating the crap aout eacother.

Buu Kidbuu probably isnt playable yet so superBuu is a temporary swich.

Frieza transformation 3 aint done yet so stage 4 changes stage 2 for testing the form 4 model.

 

[SA_Gohan]

meh, 1.3 sucks more than i expected.

-swooping is exaggerated and noob friendly.
It's not perfect, (definitely not if you try to use it like 1.2) and the team is welcoming suggestions to handle better. Try to realize though that it was meant to be used in conjunction with the adv. melee system which hasn't been implemented yet.

-i got in 1.2.3 100fps, but in 1.3 i get 50 fps -.- so i could call esf fps eater
Once again, it's not perfect, and not finished. And 50fps, actually isn't that bad. Now if you were getting 15fps and you were running a fairly good machine, that's something else entirely . . .

-too much details for my taste
Melee and the fx system were the primary features setting this release apart, and as the PcJoe has said they've gone through 20 versions before they arrived at the one they're using (which has yet to be implemented). Since these two features aren't finished and were cut from the beta so that they can be, whereas loads of other easier ones were, it gives the appearance of unnecessary details.

-too much concentrated to beams, thus more beam spammers..
True. Beams do seem a lot more powerful in this version. Maybe they're use should be tied to the stamina bar to limit the beam/charge/repeat problem.

Its still in beta, and unpolished . . .

 

[DarktoothDKD]

EDIT: Oh and here's an idea, team. Why don't you complete all the animations first, then we'll be able to use your awesome models in 1.2. I know you think they'll be incompatible, but don't worry, I've tested them, and they work the same way as in 1.3. Which isn't the case when transfered 1.2 models into 1.1, which caused the models to act like they were retarded ^_^

yeah umm... ok.. about 13 models.. about 200 animations each.. thats about what.. 2000 animations... ONE animator...

I give you the power to add your own animations so you can make them compatible for the version you wanna play. HAVE FUN! ^_^

For a heads up.. we just added about 4 features a few days before we released ESF. We also have a log saying that not all animations are complete. sooo!! Im going to go now, bye

 

[SA_Gohan]

Out of curiousity, why are you the only animator anyway? Certainly there's decent talent out there that could at least help shoulder the workload?

 

[DarktoothDKD]

I have a buddy helping me out, but he animates off and on. And the people applying to animate arent up to par for the quality we're going for. Yes Im picky >.<

 

[Kama]

I have a buddy helping me out, but he animates off and on. And the people applying to animate arent up to par for the quality we're going for. Yes Im picky >.<

That and DT is an attention whore.

 

[harSens]

Pretty much because he's different. Why add another character who can transform like everyone else and be really just a model change with new attacks when we can add an entirely new class with new options and abilities? Buddy System? Body Swap? Purple man in speedo? I personally love Ginyu.

I love you Kama.

-swooping is exaggerated and noob friendly.
-too much concentrated to beams, thus more beam spammers..

noob friendly is bad?
And yes, we do focus a bit more on beams. The stamina system+reduced beam max radius+removal of ps multipliers are all introduced to decrease spamming. Unless, with spamming you mean shooting beams at all? I'd say the new bs and an actually working ps system are nice and add variety to gameplay. But if you prefer circle-swooping in 1.1 there is noone stopping you.

 

[Zeonix]

Yeah, noob-friendly is bad.

*Points to 1.2.3*

 

[.Guzzie.]

You being sarcastic there right?? 1.2.3 --> 1.3
I know that most of the good players are staying with 1.2.3, 1.3 is ****ting me, I keep crashing so I'm unable to get a full game without crashing grrr.

Anyways, the reason 1.3 took really long is because it takes LOTS of coding. I meen, the team only has 2 coders... >_>, and to make a game like ESF...well it's all based on coding..swooping, hitting, Ki....hp etc etc. But meh, I think i'll stay with 1.2.3 >_<

-GuZzie

 

[Mountain Dewd]

Personally I'm not happy with the gameplay direction that has been chosen, in an effort to make it more "dbz-ish" you've basically taken away everything good about the game, while possibly making it even less like dbz

It is now, impossible to get across the entire level on a full tank of ki, dashing while fast, burns up FAR too much ki, can you imagine a heated battle in 1.3? half of it would just be re-charging, how is that anything like dbz?.

Dashing, which you are not able to cancel, feels extremely clumsy, because you dash a specific distance each time, which makes precise moves and angling, either much much harder, or impossible.

A system like this has really taken away alot of the freedom of movement 1.23 gave us

The charged turbo swoop feels rather useless, especially considering its slower than a dash, which makes no sense.

Its not all compleltely bad, I do like the new Power struggle system (more dynamic, not as numbers based) the buddy system, and the ability to disintegrate people at close range with a high powered beam.

I understand this is an unfinished build, but to me, it seems like you dont know what made Esf great, because so far, you've just taken away everything I loved about the game.

If 1.3 turns out to be fantastic, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong, but so far, I dont see that happening, atleast not with the direction you've taken

 

[Gon]

I personally don't think it's all that bad. The new swoop system is a little hard to get used to at first, but if used right.. it's just like 1.2. Only thing you can't really do anymore is drift and swoop jumps.

It pretty much feels the same to me. It's 1.2, with a different swoop system.

 

[Mountain Dewd]

We all expected some change with the new version, my point is the dashing system is clumsy, being unable to cancel properly during a fight makes things alot less accurate, and alot less fun

*edit* If this is the exact version the team was testing internally, how come some maps are missing, the ones that were in the uh, other version?

 

[Pcjoe]

*sigh* I'm kind of tired of this...
First...
Cvar List

charge_turbo_hold_time - Default Value: 0.45
Time that you have to hold onto the turbo button for charged turbo to "kick" on.

charge_turbo_time - Default Value: 5.0
Time it takes to charge charged turbo to 100%

charge_turbo_use_time - Default Value: 16.0
Time it takes charged turbo to 'burn down' once PL starts decreasing.

charge_turbo_multi_top - Default Value: 1.75
Amount 100% charged turbo multiplies your powerlevel by. As reference, regular turbo multiplies your pl by 1.25.

charge_turbo_cap_time - Default Value: 3.5
Once let go of turbo and stop charging up the charged turbo, your pl will stay capped out for this time before it starts draining.

charge_turbo_hold_dir_time - Default Value: 1.1
Time before swoop auto launches when you hold onto a directional button while in charged turbo.

max_swoop_time - Default Value: 2.85
Maximum amount of time swoop takes

swoop_chain_delay - Default Value: 0.25
Delay between chain swoops

init_swoop_ki - Default Value: 25
How much KI it takes to start a swoop

chain_swoop_ki - Default Value: 10
How much KI it takes to do a chain swoop. Note, this amount is multiplied by the total amount of chain swoops you've done in that 'swooping session'. For example, when you first swoop, you'll only use 25 ki (above). When you chain swoop that, you'll be fined (25 + 10*1). On the second chain swoop, you'll be fined (25 + 10*2), and it increases that way each time.

max_dash_time - Default Value: 1.0
Dash equivalent of max_swoop_time

dash_chain_delay - Default Value: 0.25
Dash equivalent of swoop_chain_delay

init_dash_ki - Default Value: 15
Dash equivalent of init_swoop_ki

chain_dash_ki - Default Value: 45
Dash equivalent of chain_swoop_ki

ki_cost_pause - Default Value: 20
Taken each time you 'pause' mid-swoop/mid-dash.

swoop_speed_start - Default Value: 800.0
The speed at which swoop starts moving at

swoop_speed_end - Default Value: 1100.0
The speed at which swoop caps off at (when you swoop for the full distance, you'll be going this speed at the end of the swoop).

dash_speed_start - Default Value: 1300.0
Same thing as swoop_speed_start, but for dash.

dash_speed_end - Default Value: 800.0
Same thing as swoop_speed_end, but for dash.

__________________________________________
KI Cost below. Keep note, the KI pool totals out at 1,000. For the 5 values below, this amount is taken every 0.2 seconds. So if the value is 10, 50 ki is drained per second. As reference, turbo takes 2 KI per update, and powerup increases 70 KI per update.

ki_cost_charged_turbo - Default Value: 10
KI cost to charge turbo

ki_cost_charged_turbo_hold - Default Value: 3
When you reach 100% charged turbo and continue to charge (pl stops increasing), this reduced amount is taken.

ki_cost_charged_turbo_dec - Default Value: 1
If you have an inflated PL from charged turbo, this amount will be taken until your pl is back to normal (goes back to turbo pl*1.25 normal, or you disable turbo and it goes back down to base pl).

ki_cost_swoop - Default Value: 12
KI taken during swoop

ki_cost_dash - Default Value: 8
KI taken during dash


Phob posted most of this list in the sticky, but he didn't post the cvars relating to KI cost. They're all in the current open beta, and you can easily change them.

Second, you don't like swoop? Don't ***** and moan about it: http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=68050
Tell us how to make it better. Please don't give us 'I don't like the direction ESF is going in'. I thought I made it clear that we're open for suggestions, and the way swoop and dash is being handled will be changed.

And like I've said before, the reason we changed swoop from 1.2 is because 1.3 melee is going to be much closer and personal. There is no reason to constantly swoop at the speed of 1.2, or even travel the same distance. As far as I'm concerned, you don't need to traverse an entire level with on a single tank of KI. If you need to travel across the level that badly, use charge turbo and that should get you pretty close. If you're fighting close distance, use dash. The problem with 1.0 to 1.2 swooping is that it really locked us in the simple melee combat. There's no possible way of building a more advanced melee system off of it. If you have a better idea, or think that this couldn't possibly work with the 20 someodd cvars I gave you, post something in the suggestions forum section.

*edit* If this is the exact version the team was testing internally, how come some maps are missing, the ones that were in the uh, other version?

Because harsens missed some files while grabbing them from our internal sever. Notice that your character select vgui is very bare too; he missed all of the updated files for that as well. It will be in the next build.

Yeah, noob-friendly is bad.

*Points to 1.2.3*

Don't be sarcastic; if you have a problem with things being noob-friendly, please tell us. As far as I know, it's a good thing having a game that's accessible to hard-core and casual gamers alike.

 

[DiebytheSword]

Ah, the wonderful world of open beta. Useful criticism involve solutions, complaining is the alternative, and changes nothing.