1.3 = Not what you expected?

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I've heard a few people say it, and I myself think that 1.3 is just a revved up 1.2.3... It's not nearly as awesome as the videos/screenshots we've been seeing for the past 2 1/2 years. It's somewhat... disappointing...

I know it's a beta still but damn, after 2 1/2 years, this is it? A team of like 30 people, developing a mod for 2 1/2 years, and this is it? And really, not even everything is new. All the new version has is a few new characters, a buddy system, SSJ3, and a bunch of new eye-candy. Oh, and swooping is rendered completely useless now. Now we must constantly spam our directional keys in order to fight. That's really all I've seen that's different from 1.2.3... The rest is the same...

Kaination said:
Overhyped much
There is no God, we are all alone...

Edit: This isn't intended as a rant. I'm still grateful to the dev team for developing the mod. I'm merely expressing my views and opinions.
 
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That dosn't sound good..! But I don't wanna test out if it's true, I'll wait till it's completly finished...
 
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I know it's a beta still but damn, after 2 1/2 years, this is it? A team of like 30 people, developing a mod for 2 1/2 years, and this is it? And really, not even everything is new. All the new version has is a few new characters, a buddy system, SSJ3, and a bunch of new eye-candy. Oh, and swooping is rendered completely useless now. Now we must constantly spam our directional keys in order to fight. That's really all I've seen that's different from 1.2.3... The rest is the same...
A team of the whole frigging ESF community working on 1 single model for 2 1/2 years and they still aren't finished.

Do the math.
 
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You have a point there Grega :) That is seriously some **** progress...
 
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You also have to remember, that it is Non-Profit. In fact I would bet they would loose money from server hosting etc.

Plus this is purely done in there free-time, They have lives like everyone else, Must do study, or work, go clubbing, hang out with friends.

And there is probably allot of code in beta 1.3 that isn't being used yet.
We don't know for sure...
 
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You also have to remember, that it is Non-Profit. In fact I would bet they would loose money from server hosting etc.

Plus this is purely done in there free-time, They have lives like everyone else, Must do study, or work, go clubbing, hang out with friends.

And there is probably allot of code in beta 1.3 that isn't being used yet.
We don't know for sure...
The open beta is a compilation of EVERYTHING the dev team has completed. They wouldn't just choose not to use certain code. It would be in there.
 
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The open beta is a compilation of EVERYTHING the dev team has completed. They wouldn't just choose not to use certain code. It would be in there.
Not quite, for example new advanced melee is being worked on but its not there, Joes FX script is there (almost) but unusable atm, there's a few things which have been played around with and we don't know if will be included, or are waiting on other things, etc.

It's not as straight forward as you'd think.
 
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Also some maps are not in the open beta build and some other features also.
 
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I'm surprised at the amount of animations that haven't been finished (and pleasantly surprised by the increased coolness of many of the ones that are), and the fact that swooping became so much more difficult, but without advanced melee and the FX system I'm not really to surprised. IMO those were going to be the main things to set it apart from 1.2. and since their not done its not really fair to judge its gameplay features.
 

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A team of the whole frigging ESF community working on 1 single model for 2 1/2 years and they still aren't finished.

Do the math.
Honestly the best response to this thread, like, ever.
 
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I've heard a few people say it, and I myself think that 1.3 is just a revved up 1.2.3... It's not nearly as awesome as the videos/screenshots we've been seeing for the past 2 1/2 years. It's somewhat... disappointing...

I know it's a beta still but damn, after 2 1/2 years, this is it? A team of like 30 people, developing a mod for 2 1/2 years, and this is it? And really, not even everything is new. All the new version has is a few new characters, a buddy system, SSJ3, and a bunch of new eye-candy. Oh, and swooping is rendered completely useless now. Now we must constantly spam our directional keys in order to fight. That's really all I've seen that's different from 1.2.3... The rest is the same...
No one has played the complete 1.3, this is Open Beta, therefore some things aren't complete, that's almost like playing a demo, and saying it sucks, when you haven't played the entire game. And if you didn't like the Open Beta, then just don't play, and wait for the next update to be released.
 
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I've heard a few people say it, and I myself think that 1.3 is just a revved up 1.2.3... It's not nearly as awesome as the videos/screenshots we've been seeing for the past 2 1/2 years. It's somewhat... disappointing...

I know it's a beta still but damn, after 2 1/2 years, this is it? A team of like 30 people, developing a mod for 2 1/2 years, and this is it? And really, not even everything is new. All the new version has is a few new characters, a buddy system, SSJ3, and a bunch of new eye-candy. Oh, and swooping is rendered completely useless now. Now we must constantly spam our directional keys in order to fight. That's really all I've seen that's different from 1.2.3... The rest is the same...



There is no God, we are all alone...

Edit: This isn't intended as a rant. I'm still grateful to the dev team for developing the mod. I'm merely expressing my views and opinions.
You have a good point, and it's a good point indeed. I'm actually quite surprised we didn't receive more post than this saying how incomplete 1.3 is; I expected to reply to a lot more "This game sucks ass!!?!?! wtf, omfg, bbq!!!" threads, rather than actual suggestion and bug submission threads (not saying this thread is 'that' type of thread, since it's not).

Lets start from the top... We don't have a team of 30 people; the core of the ESF team is actually extremely small. Lets just look at the animations for a second. Across the 30 something models we have in ESF now, the majority of them need custom animations. Take a second and download Half-Life Model Viewer (if you don't already have it) and open up the frieza4.mdl model for example. Just go to ref_powerup_charge for example. Note how detailed it is; even the mouth moves (if you go through all of the animations, you'll notice a lot of small details; the mouth moving in and out, sometimes chest expanding, etc etc...). Go to the same animation goku. Different? yes. Go to the SAME animation on SSJ goku. Different? Go to the -same- animation on SSJ2 goku, once again different.. And for kicks, check it out on SSJ3 goku. In this case, we have, and for the most part, always had one animator which is our beloved Darktooth. This is just reflecting that we don't have this 'huge' team to beast away our work; it's normally the work of an individual or two.

Going to the team size aspect...
Programmers:
HarSens - General Programmer
Pcjoe - General Programmer (or seems like fx ***** programmer, haha)
Ian - Buddy Programmer (Not entirely sure if he's on the team still; he's had a lot of RL work issues to keep up with, and I don't think he still has the time to work with us)
(DragonDude defected over to the minions after only being on the team for a few months, and did like 3 things for us regardless...)

Character Modelers:
GodGundam
Mastasurf
Enix

Skinners:
Mastasurf
Kama
Davidskiwan

Animators:
Darktooth

Mappers:
IM KOnG KoNg
Cold Steel
DJ Ready
Zero

Sound:
Freedom

and others (don't be offended if I left you out team -_-)... I think in the ways of models, skins, maps, etc, we have quite a bit of material. Nearly all of the characters are complete, and a lot of the animations are complete as well. So, that leaves the code front...

First, I'm going to be honest with you; the speed at which the code has been going at was not ideal for the past couple years. On my part, due to the fact that I entered college and would much rather prefer socializing with friends over sitting in my room and programming is quite a kicker. I'm only 19 years old and do like spending my time doing other things ^_^; Also since I'm on co-op right now programming full time, coming home to more programming is quite a challenge as well.

Even so, they're just excuses, and I really can't give you a hard set reason why the progress is so lacking. A lot of stuff has been implemented, but for the most part, it's smaller things you won't find on your first or second play through.

As SA_Gohan says...
SA_Gohan said:
...but without advanced melee and the FX system I'm not really to surprised. IMO those were going to be the main things to set it apart from 1.2. and since their not done its not really fair to judge its gameplay features.
So, as you probably know, besides the generalized stuff I do, my 'main' projects are the fx script and melee systems. In regards to the fx script system, it's so close, but the GUI isn't done. It's just a lot of freakin work. If I honestly knew it would have taken this much, I completely wouldn't have started it. It's too late to turn back now though, and the core code is literally finished... So, just have to keep on rolling with it. At this point the source for the fx script is spread across 40 someodd files totaling 569KB. To put it into context, the rest of the client code (written by valve and the esf team) totals a little less than 2MB, which spans across more than 150 files... The main point isn't "oh, look how much code I wrote!! weee!!", but rather to show that I have been working extremely hard on it, and it's almost there. Without an intuitive graphical user interface though, the entire system would be useless since our artists wouldn't be able to use it. As far as I know, our artists don't like editing raw XML to generate scripted events and particle systems :(

So, Melee system? It hasn't been touched; we've been through at least 20 different melee system write ups and just a few weeks ago we finally decided on something we're happy with. Ridiculous that it took us that long? Yeah, but what can you do -_- I don't think it's going to be too hard to implement though, so with some luck, you should see some progress with that soon after I finish up the fx script.

So, where does this leave us now.. Yes, open beta... Like I've said before, it's our attempt to interact with the community some more, and actually let you guys impact the direction ESF is going in. Not only that, but I personally hoped it would show you guys that, yeah, progress over the past couple years kind of sucked, but we're back and ****in' serious about getting stuff done. It would be retarded if we decided to do bi-weekly releases and have them nearly identical every time. My personal hope is that you guys make some suggestions on the forums on how something should be handled (for example, in relations to swooping), and in the next inteam go like - wholy ****, they actually implemented the changes I suggested less than 2 weeks ago o_O. And the same thing with the bug submissions... Hopefully over the next couple months you guys will see that we're serious about wrapping up ESF development, and you'll put the lack of development before hand behind you.

I guess that's it... My apologies for typos/grammar mistakes. I just woke up, so bare with it -_-
 
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Actually, PCjoe has the best response to this thread, like ever.

Well said.
 
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gooo... joe! melee doc revisions = years >_<
 
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You know, I actually like 1.2 better than 1.3, as it stands now. One thing that just kills it for me is the new swooping. If you guys just changed it back to the way it was, then it would be fine. I'm not saying the game sucks. I'm not going to judge it until it's completely finished, but as it stands now, 1.2 is even better. One thing I like that you guys have done, is how you only have to tap the button once to chain a swoop. The thing is, since you changed the swoop to this...stupid dashing thing, it's used in a bad way. Really, I think the game would be ok if you guys just changed the swooping back to the way it was.
 
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A team of the whole frigging ESF community working on 1 single model for 2 1/2 years and they still aren't finished.

Do the math.
I just want to point out no one really gives a crap about Tien being ingame. "A whole friggin ESF community" is actually like 3 people who love Tien for some reason.

Kudos to Pcjoe for being honest.
 
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You know, I actually like 1.2 better than 1.3, as it stands now. One thing that just kills it for me is the new swooping. If you guys just changed it back to the way it was, then it would be fine. I'm not saying the game sucks. I'm not going to judge it until it's completely finished, but as it stands now, 1.2 is even better. One thing I like that you guys have done, is how you only have to tap the button once to chain a swoop. The thing is, since you changed the swoop to this...stupid dashing thing, it's used in a bad way. Really, I think the game would be ok if you guys just changed the swooping back to the way it was.
could u be more specific about what you dont like about the new swooping? a lot of players said that they couldnt' glide anymore which is a reason not to like it
 
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Still, ESF is ESF. The team can't put everything new, and this version isn't nearly finished. I like the new models and selection screen, but it's still far from what I expected. What I really liked is Vegeta's renzoku and the new simple melee animations. I have to congratulate the team on that, great job. I'll wait for the final release and we'll see.

EDIT: And yeah, now that i think about it, the swooping really sucks, and it could be spammable.
 
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Haha, thanks guys :)
You know, I actually like 1.2 better than 1.3, as it stands now. One thing that just kills it for me is the new swooping. If you guys just changed it back to the way it was, then it would be fine. I'm not saying the game sucks. I'm not going to judge it until it's completely finished, but as it stands now, 1.2 is even better. One thing I like that you guys have done, is how you only have to tap the button once to chain a swoop. The thing is, since you changed the swoop to this...stupid dashing thing, it's used in a bad way. Really, I think the game would be ok if you guys just changed the swooping back to the way it was.
Suggestions: http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=68050
We're open for suggestions related to swoop. The main reason we changed swoop is because of the new advanced melee.
Design Documents: http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=57392
A new advanced melee document was added a few weeks ago which reflects what we plan on implementing. We decided to add dash to keep the movement distances a bit more localized, so close distance fighting is more feasible.

EDIT: I really don't mind if you guys don't like X feature, but back it up with a suggestion. Don't spend your time whining how it sucks, spend your time thinking how we can make it better.
 

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