Vegeta

[Angel_Sephiroth]

Whatever!!

 

[The Cheese]

People why fight about something that can't be proven or changed. Goku is the strongest because he is the main character, he also recieved some of the best/cheapest techniques in the series early on. I hate to say it but Goku will always be stronger than Vegita because Vegita always trains alone and Goku quite often trains with others.

Think on this:

1. Vegita was stronger than Goku when he entered the HBTC.
2. Vegita and Trunks train by themselves for 2 years within the HBTC.
3. Goku and Gohan train with each other for only 1 year within the HBTC.
4. When all is said and done Goku is again stronger than Vegita, even though Vegita trained 2x as long as Goku.

I mean how much can you learn from training with yourself all the time as compared to training with others. I too love Vegita and think he always gets screwed but hey the story has already been written and there is nothing anyone can do to change it.

 

[Angel_Sephiroth]

I second that.

 

[Engar]

Strange thread but ce la ve (Is that how you spell that? )

I don't think this has been mentioned but Vegeta didn't gain Super Saiya-Jin from having strong convictions about being the best or from being stronger. It's only when Vegeta gives up his insane quest for being the best and decides that it really doesn't matter that he finally ascends. And then forgets the lesson which was that his convictions didn't help.

 

[Morrone]

Originally posted by GoldSaiyan
Either, you are bad at english or you lack basic knowledge at putting atleast some information about in "WHAT" episodes they're featuring in.
How the heck should I know if you say, "He retrieved Blah blah blah by blah" there
Cell tried to lure Android 18 with the voice and image of Android 17 when he was absorbed. I know about the episodes.

Goku knew that Freeza is stronger than him, but still he refused to give up and keeps fighting him. Freeza was only toying with him, until he ticked off Goku. Goku turns SSJ and Freeza got beaten by Goku.

And if Vegeta's motivation is so great? Why didn't he became SSJ in the saga? Maybe he didn't had enough strength to do so or maybe it is the lack of strength in his motivation.

And do not forget, watching one of your loved ones getting killed is more painful. In DBZ, Saiyans acquires much strength when their emotions is going overboard. ( Same goes for all humans I guess. )

You are comparing motivation with a damn quote? *coughcough*
If Goku gave up, then why did he helped Gohan when Piccolo told him that Gohan is going to die if they won't do something about it.

So tell me, can you see the difference of things ment sarcasticly and non-sarcasticly ?

You keep talking when your points dont even make any sense anymore. You are useless. Here I go again.

1)I explained thoroughly about Goku saving Piccolo and Tien. If you still cant remember it its because you havent watch the show.

2) As I have explained before but you dont understand Goku did give up against Frieza. That is why he used the Spirit Bomb. Do you know the definite of 'trump card'? It means last resort tactic. He knew he couldnt beat Frieza so he knew he only hope was the SB.

3)He went SSJ befre Vegeta cuz he got pissed off when Piccy and Krillin died AS I HAVE EXPLAINED BEFORE.

4) Whats wrong with comparing things with quotes from the actual show? It proves my point. Can you understand that?


5) He didnt help Gohan smart guy. He realized Gohan couldn't beat Cell because of what Piccolo said. He gave up! Can you understand that? What is the problem that your brain cells arent making a chemical reaction with the quote, "I give up!". He gave up. Goku gave up. The reason he teleported Cell to Kai Planet is because it wsas the only way to save the Earth. he wasnt doing it to just help Gohan. Please learn to watch the episodes before you try to summarize them.

Sarcasm? If you mean by how ridiculous your entire argument has been up to this point that it must be one big sarcastic joke then yes.

 

[Angel_Sephiroth]

you just won't give up, will ya?

 

[Engar]

Originally posted by Morrone
2) As I have explained before but you dont understand Goku did give up against Frieza. That is why he used the Spirit Bomb. Do you know the definite of 'trump card'? It means last resort tactic. He knew he couldnt beat Frieza so he knew he only hope was the SB.

I don't mean to nit-pick here but if he had actually given up he never would have used the Spirit Bomb. By definition a Trump Card is indeed something you use in last resort, a last act BEFORE giving up. Goku using the Spirit Bomb was not giving up, it was him puting his all into winning.

 

[The Cheese]

Yes, thats is what he did.

 

[GoldSaiyan]

(1) Then use your brains for once instead of talking ****, point right to the source of the information and do not TALK gibberish. Sure I can say, 'when goku saved Krillin' now what episode may that be? May that be the Cell saga, Freeza saga, Buu saga? You didn't EVEN tell.

(2) Goku didn't gave up, he never gave up. If he gave up, he will just sit down on his ass and do nothing. Do you understand?
So let me guess, if I selfdestruct to kill a enemy, to save the others? does that mean I give up?

(3) Before you are using those dead cells again in your brain, if you knew about the episodes you probably knew about the "SSJ 2" part in the Cell Saga. Gohan got angry and beated up by the enemy at the same time. Goku and the others helped him, well they atleast tried but they got beat up by the Little Cells.

(4) Quotes doesn't prove ****. Please, use common sense this is the real world boy.

(5) So you are admitting that Goku didn't gave up when he is fighting Freeza. The energy bomb destroyed alot of Freeza's energy reserves.

 

[Morrone]

Originally posted by GoldSaiyan
(1) Then use your brains for once instead of talking ****, point right to the source of the information and do not TALK gibberish. Sure I can say, 'when goku saved Krillin' now what episode may that be? May that be the Cell saga, Freeza saga, Buu saga? You didn't EVEN tell.

(2) Goku didn't gave up, he never gave up. If he gave up, he will just sit down on his ass and do nothing. Do you understand?
So let me guess, if I selfdestruct to kill a enemy, to save the others? does that mean I give up?

(3) Before you are using those dead cells again in your brain, if you knew about the episodes you probably knew about the "SSJ 2" part in the Cell Saga. Gohan got angry and beated up by the enemy at the same time. Goku and the others helped him, well they atleast tried but they got beat up by the Little Cells.

(4) Quotes doesn't prove ****. Please, use common sense this is the real world boy.

(5) So you are admitting that Goku didn't gave up when he is fighting Freeza. The energy bomb destroyed alot of Freeza's energy reserves.

1) Episode 138- Sacrifice.

2) Fine. How about the phrase 'admitting defeat'. Vegeta admitted defeat against Frieza but he still stayed and devised a plan with Krillin, didnt he?

3) Goku and the others never moved a muscle. The Cell Juniors attacked the Z-fighters, they didnt stop them from interfering. Goku gave up. Goku gave up.Goku gave up.Goku gave up.Goku gave up.Goku gave up.Goku gave up.Goku gave up.Goku gave up..

4) The quote explained how it works. Quotes do prove things. This show has nothing to do with the real world so why are you telling me this? "Brute strength determines the outcome of a battle not goodness". Same goes for motivation. I've told you this before you still dont get it.

5) The energy bomb didnt do much to Frieza at all. Frieza wasnt even fighting at full power yet. Goku admitted defeat if you like that phrase better. By not fighting him head to head and needing the energy of the solar system he proved Frieza was better.

 

[GoldSaiyan]

He used brains to defeat Freeza, although that was the strong side of Freeza.
And he "DID" take damage from the spirit bomb, but even if it didn't damage him. He will still be beaten by SSJ Goku.
He has blood everywhere by the spirit bomb and his other eye is closed, now what does that mean? Ahhhh... yes... he got hurt by it.

The Z fighters was about to "DO" something, but Cell got the idea faster than them. Goku did not gave up! Goku did not gave up! Goku did not gave up! Goku did not gave up! Goku did not gave up! Goku did not gave up! Goku did not gave up! Goku did not gave up! Goku did not gave up! Goku did not gave up! Goku did not gave up! Goku did not gave up! Goku did not gave up!

Sorry my friend, in Martial arts brute strength is not that impressive. "ENDURANCE" is way more important and motivitation gives you more endurance. The advantage of goodness is, you care about the others. You want to save them at all costs, villians only cares about themselves, not about the others.

 

[Engar]

Okay, this has gone from an argument over Goku and Vegeta in a community between an argument between two people. But still I persevere.

3) Goku did not give up. Goku knew that if Gohan was pushed far enough he would have the power to defeat Cell. Goku never had any intention or possibility of beating Cell, the only reason he fought against Cell was to give Gohan an insight into Cells fighting technique.

4) That quote is Vegeta's oppinion. O-Pin-Ion. It doesn't make it a fact.

5) Once again, asking for help is not giving up. Giving up would be Goku turning and running away. He did not do this. He created another attack.

(In the hope that my third post will catch the eye of the two arguing.)

 

[Angel_Sephiroth]

hey it caught mine!

but if it caught the other?

 

[Morrone]

Ok this is insane how little someone can know about something and pretend they know everything.

"You win Cell. I give up. You know I wasn't sure when I came here today that I'd have what it takes to beat you. I know now that I dont."- Goku (Dragon Ball Z Episode 166 Faith In A Boy, Cell Games Saga.)

So you just lied to this entire forum,lemme count, 13 times plus 2 other times in a previous post. 15 times. You have been proven wrong now.

The Z-fighters were thinking about jumping in. They didn't though. Just cuz you say you will do something doesnt mean they will. 16 blew himself up then Cell made those juniors.

I cant believe you think motivation is measured in goodness. School must have taught you nothing. Napolean, Hitler, Stalin. All men deeply motivated to conquer the world, and they came closer than anybody before them. Were they good people? No. Motivation is not measured in goodness. Can you comprehend that. Motivation is something that keeps you going. Both Goku and Vegeta had maximum amounts of it. they wouldnt quit for anything, they never did. To say Goku had more motivation than Goku is silly cuz its an opinion and its untrue. When Trunks describes how Vegeta trained in the HBTC you see that Vegeta was destined to be the strongest in the universe. Yes, it was when vegeta didnt care anymore that he went SSJ. That is because he was so frustrated he gave up, that got him angry and that anger made him go SSJ.

I dont know why you are still arguing with me. All your saying is lies now.

Frieza did take damage, but it was only temporary. Like being unched int he sotmach. It hurts at first but it goes away shortly. Same with the SB.

Brute strength means power. Power and speed determine the outcome of every battle in DBZ. Endurance nonsense. Endurance is how they train. You never see them get so tired that they lose the fight. You see them get beaten so badly that they lose the fight. If Goku was so much more motivated than Vegeta he wouldnt have given up 3 times more than Vegeta.

I dont know where you can fathom that Goku is more motivated than Vegeta. Vegeta spent his entire life to be the best and so did Goku. the thing is that Goku was always the best and Vegeta always seocnd best. I'm not saying this is fact but: if anything Vegeta is more motivated than Goku cuz Goku is always ahead of him.

I dont know what is going to give you the mentality to tell me I'm wrong but you will. We are both stubborn. One more than the other. Where one lacks in stubborness he balances in intelligence regarding DBZ. The other vise versa. You decide which. Not flaming but you keep telling me I'm wrong and you just dont justify your claims.

 

[Angel_Sephiroth]

School must have taught you nothing. Napolean, Hitler, Stalin.

It's NapoleOn!!!

 

[Morrone]

lol sorry. .

Btw Krillin it doesnt matter what his intentions were. He fought Cell and he lost and instead of fighting it to the end like a warrior he gave up. He went back on his ghtoughts that Gohan could beat Cell aswell. As stated by GoldSaiyan he was about to go back in there and help him. He assumed wrong but thanks to 16 it worked.

 

[Majin Vegeta316]

Maybe its a genetic thing. Heres a good example, Einstien. Did you all know that his brain was deformed. A part of it was enlarged, while another part was shrunken. He could understand things very well, but it took him forever to learn it. He dint even know how to talk at the age of 4 I think. Or its like how some people are better at math then others. It could be that Goku is the main charecter and has to be the strongest. Goku was most of the time stronger, but Vegeta was a better tactition. Piccolo even said that, not exactly.

)V( Vegeta

 

[GoldSaiyan]

Morrone, Freeza did take damage considerable damage. Not damage that will knock your socks off.
Hmmm, first you don't care about comparing real life things with DBZ. Ah well, if you insist.
Hitler and napoleon is a different story, they are master minds. They used strategy, in fighting motivation is something else. Goku doesn't care if he is the best, he cares about his god damn friends.
And I don't know why saving your loved ones is more motivating than thinking about yourself, you should ask god that.
Goku seems to be more motivated by his goals, don't like it? Too bad for you.


And you say Endurance is nothing????? Bwahahahahaahah!
Okay, tell me oh great light beyond the martial arts. Why is Endurance so unimportant?
No wait, you can win a fight by brute strength or with super speed while your endurance is nothing.
Endurance is always important, it keeps you going. If your Endurance isn't worth ****, then you will simply collapse to the ground while you give the enemy a punch in the head.
In real life, try boxing with someone that has strong endurance. I doubt that you will stand a few seconds in the ring.

The Z fighters in the Cell Saga, was about to "DO" something. Stop whining about it already.

And please, count the lies I've made. You spoke so much rubbish, it'll be more attracting if you can clarify yourself.

The fighters do get tired in the fights, you notice that when somebody gives the hard blow and when somebody crashes into a mountain or terrain. Endurance can keep up with high speeds, enabling you to fight extremely long.


Frankly, I'm getting tired of this arguement. We have both our own opinions, so I say, let's give this a rest.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Originally posted by GoldSaiyan

And you say Endurance is nothing????? Bwahahahahaahah!
Okay, tell me oh great light beyond the martial arts. Why is Endurance so unimportant?
No wait, you can win a fight by brute strength or with super speed while your endurance is nothing.
Endurance is always important, it keeps you going. If your Endurance isn't worth ****, then you will simply collapse to the ground while you give the enemy a punch in the head.
In real life, try boxing with someone that has strong endurance. I doubt that you will stand a few seconds in the ring.

The Z fighters in the Cell Saga, was about to "DO" something. Stop whining about it already.


The fighters do get tired in the fights, you notice that when somebody gives the hard blow and when somebody crashes into a mountain or terrain. Endurance can keep up with high speeds, enabling you to fight extremely long.

He did say "In DBZ," first of all. Secondly, endurance as endurance isn't really endurance on DBZ. Let me clarify: You never see anyone swing and miss so many times that they get tired and pass out. You only see them fall unconscious after taking serious damage. Endurance in DBZ is just "health" or "damage resistance," however you want to call it. Endurance does not exist in combat as far as something you lose without being hit. The only time I can think of a scenario like that would be after Trunks expended all of that ki trying to destroy the androids in the History of Trunks special, but even that was just an empty ki resevior, and not tired muscles.

And the Z fighters were incapable of "doing" anything to Cell. Goku was all worn out and Vegeta was only capable of distracting Cell by nailing him with a huge blast when he wasn't looking. I don't believe they were actually going to do anything until Gohan was just about dead. The Cell jrs certainly didn't "stop" them from "jumping in."

 

[Angel_Sephiroth]

I guess we all have our own version of the story.


So we don't really know who to believe.

























Exept the producers.