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TwisteR said:
And people say their suggestions dont get in.:) Ive seen this mentioned numerous times and now its becoming a reality.
Cant wait to see it in action. =]
Yup your right, this is exactly what I suggested before the release of 1.2.
Can't wait to see how it works out ^_^
 

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Ok, this isn't a 1.1-1.2 version comparison thread. Let's move back to the original topic before it turns into a naked riot.
 
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Sounds promising, let's hope there's some speed to it this time.

No offence i really like the idea of this mod, been playing it for years now, but the 1.2 speed just bored the hell out of me and i quit like many others.

A faster gameplay(possibly like 1.1)+all the new features in 1.3 would take this mod from floor to straight through the roof and up in space, i don't think i'm alone when i say that.

And nice job on the new ideas.

"I miss having fun in esf"
 
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hey logan I agree with most of ur stuff but I have to say I dont see trunks using his sword unless its like a deathblow or something, I just think that if he would hit with his sword in the melee logically people shouldeve been cut unless u wanna see a sword hitting the flesh and just a random "boom" appearing out of the place and no limbs cut :)

other stuff u said seem fine by me,
goku-regular punches
vegeta- about the same just more agressive like u said
picollo- arm streching and mostly punches
buu- chubby moves, slow and strong
cell- I think should take like one move from each char, would be intersting that he will use a goku punch like one time and another time use vegetas or picollos trademark punch ;)
frieza- now theres a hard one, I guess tail hits would be nice :)
krillin- some nice kicks like u said could do the job
gohan- cant say for sure, guess like goku with few slight changes
trunks - cant say for sure again, but dont think sword is a good idea

ASIDE FROM THE ATTACKS!!!
I have a suggestion, while in advanced melee, I think it will be a good idea to make some punches/kicks have a "push" effects, for example, goku against vegeta, goku starts a combo with a few small punches, medium kick and some more small punches:
so what I am saying is if goku hits the medium kick the enemy will be pushed away a couple of meters and then u(the player) will fly to the pushed away enemy and continue the combo from there, also another suggestion is having the enemy being thrown in the direction that he was hit, what I am saying is if u use a hard punch/kick and its in the end of the combo and it hits it will send the enemy flying in the direction which the punch/kick was directed, example: u pressed punch and it has the down direction and then if u hit the enemy he will be flying crashing down instead of now that when u hit someone u send him flying straight from u.

so if u combine my 2 suggestions (of course if u choose to accept them :) )
u can get a very nice and more realistic combo, imagine:
picollo punches goku a few times, then uppercuts (medium punch with the up direction) him- he is "pushed" up away into the air and then u fly up to him and use both hands together just like in the show to hit him in the back flying down to the ground, or another example is punching someone a medium punch which makes him get "pushed" a bit down and then u fly down catch him and knee him in the stomach (sounds familiar from the show right).
happens a lot in the show and I think what I suggested can also make it happen in esf :D

respect for all staff for they are doing the great job!
also if anybody thought about this idea b4 me plz dont spam cause i didnt know!
 
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Magus said:
Ok, this isn't a 1.1-1.2 version comparison thread. Let's move back to the original topic before it turns into a naked riot.
Sorry if i seemed to have instigated sometyhing, I just thought the comparison between the people who started in 1.1 and 1.2 to the people who started in 1.2 and who will start in 1.3 was interesting.
 
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You say that the majority of 1.1 players left cause they were wuses and were afraid of the "new". Then again not to say that 1.1 players can beat the **** outta 1.2 players, but the skill has increased in 1.2 players. So if a 1.1 player from then magically teleported to this time, he might not do good aginst a 1.2 player useing 1.1 styles.
and then you woke up? :D Lissen, believe all u want but don't come up with that bull**** that we are afraid of the "new". just stfu about 1.1, if you weren't good at it back then, simply don't compare 1.1 to 1.2, no one could see what was good about the game back then besides the skilled people, the people that took the time to learn the melee system which was the best thing about esf. Let's hope we get to see som huge changes in 1.3, i for one hope esf turns out as the game that it once used to be.
 
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KilledWithStyle said:
I think you just contradicted yourself in that post. Let me translate it to the best of my ability. (tell me if I am wrong)

You say that the majority of 1.1 players left cause they were wuses and were afraid of the "new". Then again not to say that 1.1 players can beat the **** outta 1.2 players, but the skill has increased in 1.2 players. So if a 1.1 player from then magically teleported to this time, he might not do good aginst a 1.2 player useing 1.1 styles.

There you go, shortenes what he said in a smaller style.




On topic:
I would say that it seems like a nice idea, players keep throwing punches rapidly in DBZ style and if they do a HARD HIT they will hit them back and then swoop after them and continue hitting him if they qued up more attacks.
There for showing action in each of the moves instead of staying still. This will show all the action that should be shown in this game all along.

1.2 Players cannot beat 1.1 players in 1.1. Thats what hes pretty much saying, and its damn true. Without Throwing which slows the game down to the - 5 power it makes the game boring, and less skill full. Since you can do it Right out of a block. HOWing imo took more skill.

If anyone would like to prove me wrong I am sure I could get a couple of old 1.1 vets, and we can fight the 1.2 vets, and we would win hands down.


Ravendust said:
Meh, 1.1'ers were used to the melee speed and knockback and stuff, and afraid of the changes of 1.2 seeing as it didn't allow their style of play, hopefully 1.3 will bring everyone together by balancing the melee between the two, plus, everyone loves extra transformations!
In 1on1 matches, and clan matches no one transforms because they restrict, and take it away because it imbalances the game which is why most 1.1 players quit because it slowed the game down ten fold, no one wants to transform, and fight. I could careless about the extra transformations to tell you the truth. Alot of other people feel the same way. I am more concerned with gameplay.

Don't get me wrong I still play 1.2 on a advanced player level, but I don't take it as seriously as I do 1.1 because 1.2 a good 40% of it is luck, and the people who are rated the "Best" Either 1. Use a Aimbot, 2. Picks Cell all day, and whores his Speed, and Starting PL. In 1.1 this was easy to deal with, but in 1.2 Where the speed is slow, and you have a Multi directional whoop where it would be harder to fight a aimbotter because of that.

In 1.1 it was pretty much HOW the Aimbotter to high hell because since they always auto target while they swoop they continously go towards you.
 
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I hate these discussions.

Not that I really remember the mechanics of 1.1 or 1.2 since I haven't played ESF in any capacity since before August, but from what I remember:

1.1's skill came in short bursts in that it was more of a joust. Once someone was hit, they'd usually be flying across the map unless you aimed for them to bounce off a wall or something. After a hit you had a breather.

1.2's skill is spaced out in that there's a lot of countering to be had. The knockback distances are much shorter, so the fight stays more consistent. The only real 'luck' that I see in 1.2 is when you factor in the multi-directional arrows of the defunct DDR system. But in an all-knockback fight, having 6 ways makes things a lot more skillful if you ask me.

Both 1.1 and 1.2 have their noobisms, with 1.1's HOW'ing (a term that I created, but not to become what it's become) and 1.2's random arrows. At least you have a chance to do something about the random arrows, though. In 1.1, all you needed to do was keep your ki up and run into people. Whoever thinks that's more skillful than 6-way swooping needs to reconsider.

I had made a second melee outline that I think would bring both aspects of 1.1 and 1.2 together to make the action more challenging and fun, but once Joe reassured me that the melee wasn't seeing a line of code being changed, well.
 

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Oh, so 1.3 will be worthless then..
 
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Some people dont seem to realize that Gameplay is the most important of the game not the animations, or the graphics, or the models. The most important thing to every game is the GAME PLAY! Example look at EverQuest 2 so many people thought it was S H I T, and they liked Everquest 1 better. Sure Everquest 2 had better graphics, animations, and models, but the gameplay sucked. And that is the same aspect as ESF all my friends liked it at first then they got really bored with because the melee system sucked ass, and there werent enough moves.

As for me I think the Melee needs to be more like a consol controller and there needs to be a good blocking system more advanced, Example: Like DBZ Budokai or Soul Calibar 2
 
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Ultimate Trunks said:
Some people dont seem to realize that Gameplay is the most important of the game not the animations, or the graphics, or the models. The most important thing to every game is the GAME PLAY! Example look at EverQuest 2 so many people thought it was S H I T, and they liked Everquest 1 better. Sure Everquest 2 had better graphics, animations, and models, but the gameplay sucked. And that is the same aspect as ESF all my friends liked it at first then they got really bored with because the melee system sucked ass, and there werent enough moves.

As for me I think the Melee needs to be more like a consol controller and there needs to be a good blocking system more advanced, Example: Like DBZ Budokai or Soul Calibar 2

Well, the basic idea of the outline me and Sonic had came up with was a take on the current system, but a little more fast paced.

Essentially it went like this.

1. Swoop into someone. You start pre-punching them.
2. You hit a movement direction during the prepunches, (WSAD, Space, Control) and you knock the person in that direction. Those who are quick enough can get consecutive knockbacks and knockbacks from the prepunches would bounce players off of walls rather than have them stick. Essentially, you'd be able to bounce someone off of Cell's Arena floor and then ax-handle them back into the ground.

Mouse1 would let you do one of the throws in 1.2 now if you had already landed a KB from the Pre-Punches. Think like Goku kicking Vegeta straight up, catching his foot and slamming him into the ground.

Having Turbo on going into a prepunch would have the movement buttons do different things, like some of the Advanced Melee Combos, DDR mode, and there were some other things.

3. A regular knockback would be the distance of something between 1.1 and 1.2's knockback, with the hit player sticking to the wall like it is now.

That's it in its roughest form, the idea that we had brainstormed about. Once it was shot down, I walked.
 
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Sounds good to me, although could you be able to make things like buildings and other destructible be more custom destroyed like in esf_city if you throiw someone into a building and they go strait thorugh it and the person who threw them can go through that hole for another attack. Also is like a buildings can be destroyed part by part to give the game a little more realism.

I also think for the melee, that you should make a certain button punch and a certail button kick, and then varieties of buttons with different punches and kicks to perform combos like in Budokai.

So far I like the plan, If you think about it the melee is the most important part of the game.
 
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IF anyone remembers my they don't care thread or whatever i pretty much stopped caring after that chat with joe.
 
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Ultimate Trunks said:
Sounds good to me, although could you be able to make things like buildings and other destructible be more custom destroyed like in esf_city if you throiw someone into a building and they go strait thorugh it and the person who threw them can go through that hole for another attack. Also is like a buildings can be destroyed part by part to give the game a little more realism.

I also think for the melee, that you should make a certain button punch and a certail button kick, and then varieties of buttons with different punches and kicks to perform combos like in Budokai.

So far I like the plan, If you think about it the melee is the most important part of the game.

Do you read? They aren't doing that. That's just the outline me and Sonic proposed that was shot down. They'd rather keep it DDR-centric/flavorless KB antic based.

1) You're asking for too much out of Half-Life with destructable terrain, and even if it were possible, I think it'd be a waste of time.

2) Budokai is a 1 on 1 fighting game. ESF isn't. If you want to punch and kick, you can in DDR.
 
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dixing said:
ASIDE FROM THE ATTACKS!!!
I have a suggestion, while in advanced melee, I think it will be a good idea to make some punches/kicks have a "push" effects, for example, goku against vegeta, goku starts a combo with a few small punches, medium kick and some more small punches:
so what I am saying is if goku hits the medium kick the enemy will be pushed away a couple of meters and then u(the player) will fly to the pushed away enemy and continue the combo from there, also another suggestion is having the enemy being thrown in the direction that he was hit, what I am saying is if u use a hard punch/kick and its in the end of the combo and it hits it will send the enemy flying in the direction which the punch/kick was directed, example: u pressed punch and it has the down direction and then if u hit the enemy he will be flying crashing down instead of now that when u hit someone u send him flying straight from u.

so if u combine my 2 suggestions (of course if u choose to accept them :) )
u can get a very nice and more realistic combo, imagine:
picollo punches goku a few times, then uppercuts (medium punch with the up direction) him- he is "pushed" up away into the air and then u fly up to him and use both hands together just like in the show to hit him in the back flying down to the ground, or another example is punching someone a medium punch which makes him get "pushed" a bit down and then u fly down catch him and knee him in the stomach (sounds familiar from the show right).
happens a lot in the show and I think what I suggested can also make it happen in esf :D
Actually, this is a great idea and it should be added in 1.4 or whatever. PLEASE DON'T IGNORE THIS SUGGESTION. It could be like (IN ADVANCED MELEE) the small punches and kicks will not knock them back it will stay like it is now for the special combos. But medium/hard hits will knock them back some and hard punches at the end of a sequence will act like they do now. I dunno about the adv. melee finishing hard hit down part though, its already like that (unless you mean hitting them left and right (sideways))... But the other suggestion can be added and it wouldn't really change the DDR thing, it would only enhance it. (Basically make it more DBZ-like, interactive, less boring, etc). The up/down combos would look great like that, (you kick them up with medium or hard kick, then you hammer them back down with Hard punch or kick, that would look awesome....

You could even make it where they auto teleport behind them for hard hits that knock them pretty far in the middle of a sequence. They would still be able to dodge like it is now, so the animation would be they quickly recover and dodge or they will be sent flying around in another direction if they screw up the DDR.

Since it's been proven they aren't changing from DDR, this has got to be added. IMO *COUGH* They wouldn't have to change much either except the animations and add a little code for the knockbacks and auto-tele... I bet this still gets ignored anyway, ah well. *Sigh*

-EDIT- Oh and for when they are close to a wall/ceiling/floor, if they are hit with a Hard hit in the middle of the (adv.melee) sequence, and they are hit into the floor/wall/ceiling they will bounce off hard then the combo will finish from there. (It should look dynamic and painfull) It would be up to you'll if you wanted to make it where whenever they are bounced off a wall, they can't dodge the rest of the sequence....Dunno how that would work in lag....

Oh and one more thing the speed of the DDR shouldn't be changed unless (you speed em up) so whenever they are doing the knockback and autotele, its gonna look fast because the DDR is normal speed like now but the animations will have to come out quick for it to keep up. Basically your characters will hardly ever look like he's standing still without having to put in alot of generic filler animation...
 
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Before you come up with ideas, know that PcJoe has more than expressed his disinterest in making any changes to melee in ESF in the forseeable future.
 
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So basically you're saying that anyone that is still here because they're waiting and looking forward to ESF's melee system to be improved should just quit now? And its been fun while it lasted? -_-' Sad, but that might be good advice......
 
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thanks for the reply manontherun I am very happy someone indeed read my suggestion :D (lots of suggestions and ideas here get ignored :( )
I sure hope something will be done to enhance the melee, it isnt bad now, it just gets boring after a while but in its pure basic its very good!
its the same problem u get with dbz budokai, its a great game, the melee is nice and all but what can u do nobody is perfect and everything gets boring after a while :|
every good player comes to realize that in esf its better to use simple melee :(
so I think somethign has to be done to get advanced melee to be cool again and also usefull, and i sure hope someone cares for my suggestion or at least comes up with another idea!
 
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manontherun said:
So basically you're saying that anyone that is still here because they're waiting and looking forward to ESF's melee system to be improved should just quit now? And its been fun while it lasted? -_-' Sad, but that might be good advice......

Pretty much. Check out MechMod if you want to see what a significant portion of the ESF team is really up to. Heh.
 
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Halorin said:
Before you come up with ideas, know that PcJoe has more than expressed his disinterest in making any changes to melee in ESF in the forseeable future.
Changes in melee has already been confirmed though :rolleyes:
 

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